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pattiecannon said...
There is a design issue here that is causing a lot of headaches and possibly worse to non kiters, which is basically a disaster for us and nearly was when my ATBD hooked up the bar the other day(not for the first time). My opinions, as stated and numbered, explain and identify clearly, some design faults that are prevalent in the existing models. Pull your head in is what you should try some day, it's good for your neck muscles. The other day an old yachty came up to me on the beach and chatted for a while with interest as he had never been close up to a kite flying. The first thing he asked me about was 'what do all those straps do?" I told him and he said "Gee, pretty messy all that stuff" , I couldn't believe it, I told him about my Rev BTBD with the one cleat thing BTB and he was saying how that "sounds much better etc"
Is his opinion also worth nothing as a non-kiter? Cause he knows nothing right? Not even one season! Shooting off at the mouth again! What a kook! I should have given him your seabreeze a/c so you boys could set him straight? haha lol
i've never had my depower strap tangle on my bar as you put it . I found btb more awkward to use and to me it was clunky and innefficient . My atb on my RRD is elastic and so when i have the depower pulled in i don't have a massive piece of rope flopping about . It lengthens when you pull on it and when pressure is released it springs back into a small piece of rope . Hence it doesn't tangle , hence your statement about atbd being poorly designed is well flawed
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Hi pattiecannon. I think you will find that as you gain more time on the water then the trim adjustment is will become less of an issue for you. You will find you can set it at the beginning of a session and leave it for the rest of the day, only adjusting it if the wind gets up or drops. You may be interested to know that Naish have gone back to a strap above the bar on there 2012 Tourch. I know you were talking about being hooked in all the time but if you start to try anything unhooked you will find there is a benefit to a uncluttered chicken loop, and this is why some freestyle kites have gone to the above the bar adjustment.
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I think TurtleHunter was probably pointing out the BTB systems make the throw on the chickenloop shorter the more you depower. Of course, ABT systems are often limited in length so that you can reach the depower. Some will care, some won't, depends on the type of sailing you do.
Also BTB systems tend to have to fit two ropes and a safety through the bar which in my experience tends to wear faster than a single rope.
I'm still waiting for that perfect setup!
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The amount you adjust your front lines has nothing to do with how long you have been kiting. If anything being a learner it's one thing that gets forgotten while riding.
To have your kite in the correct trim is very important, I adjust through most gusts and luls, most importantly getting trim right for unhooking.
People that go out with one setting all day should see them selfs kite, when a gust hits they are forced to lean over forward to get the bar out, which in turn changes your weight position on the board and makes the effect of the gust much worse as they are no longer hiking against the kite.
They will then lose alot of height upwind and will probably lose speed as they bring their kite up to lose some power.
Yer UTBD is difficult to reach on most bars but if you are proactive and are ready for the gusts /luls and know how much to adjust by you can make the most of the wind as it comes without loosing height.
I use the UTBD system from a cabrinha 2011, with a f-one bar and a custom line setup with a 2010 pro kit swivel chicken loop.
The cabrinha setup works so well with the spring setup that it doesn't restrict depower and the lines are still in reach.
For unhooking I want nothing in the way of my chicken loop, cause flying towards the beach unable to hook back in isnt fun.
I have also had the depower line on a BTBD wrap around the bar when unhooking, locking the bar to the chicken loop at full power.
Sorry for the massive post
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If you don't unhook, the airush e below the bar cleat system with the trigger saftey is the cleanest, tidyest, simplest, most reliable depower / safety system I have seen.
Everthing else just looks over complicated and messy to me.
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Troyrotor said...
I adjust through most gusts and luls
Try trimming the bar for unhooking so that it is powered up nicely with the bar fully in. When a strong gust comes let the bar out slightly to a more arm straight position and edge hard using the board to control your speed, not your kite. After the gust has passed you are still trimmed to unhook.
Its all about edging and using the board to control your speed not the kite. Try it you will be surprised how much power you can handle without having to reach for the trim strap at every gust.
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I'm talking bigger gusts than that. Have a watch of 90% of people next windy gusty day.
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pattiecannon said...
Subculture said...
pattiecannon said...
Is this a kindagarden kindergarten class?
All get from you is FIGJAM...
"F**k I Get Jack All Man"???
haha thanks for the grammar lesson thrown in SC lol
Hey I owe you an apology cause I arked up about another comment and didn't even notice you had made a constructive and helpful reply about Ozone, Air-Rush push/ pull and the current state of the swing back towards ATBD . Thanks for the help there SC. I'm not familiar with this system (clearly) but the Ozone name is popping up again which is interesting.
As for my attitude, I'll let you be the judge should we ever have the luck to be kiting in the same place SC.
Grab a demo Ozone kite sometime see why people rate its depower system so highly
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What's so special about the ozone? I've used a few different c4's and a zephyr and they were all just a rope and cleat above the bar. As far as I know all ozone bars 2011-12 are the same.
Although I have seen an ozone bar somewhere with multiple stopper balls on it.
Im keen for any new ideas to try.
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Kitemare
trying to pull my btb rope out of the cleat when the wind had dropped, to give it full power, which just pulls the whole front of the kite down towards you!
so I used my other hand to hold against the tension and pulled upwards
So naturally i've grabbed the nice large hand shaped piece of plastic just above the bar
which (obviously) is the safety release which un hooks the chicken loop and releases my kite into the waves
Then I lost my board in the surf zone trying to swim in
drifted 400 m down wind till I got back to the beach
and while walking back up to find my board the wind momentarily dropped off, dumping my kite into the bushes - puncturing my leading edge!!!
I'm voting 1 for above the bar strap systems
Kiting 7 years, and still finding new ways to stuff things up!!
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That is sad Daggy, not the kind of things you want to experience even after so much time in the water...and it is too the reason I prefer above the bar depower! I still ride a 9 and 7 Rev with the btbdp, but might start using other bars with them as the kites are still in great shape
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The longer I kite the more a realise how little i know!! Things I once thought where **** are now on my must have list. Iv had a 2010 Ozone and Naish. Now ride 2012 Switchblades.
Love the switchblade ATBD and the swivel, but miss my Naish stopper and my ozone wind range. !!!
I find that most of the "Faults" i found with my kites ended up being faults with my technique instead. Now I'm slow to blame the gear and instead ask advise and than listen to more experienced riders.
A little respect for experience gets you a lot further than going off half cocked.
I ride all my new gear with the state of the art de-power alongside a bloke that rides a 5 year old Cabrinah with a 6 year old Naish bar that has lots of "adjustments" to make it fit.
He ****s all over me in avery way!! He rides better! He jumps better! He's way cooler than me! And he still has all his hair!!!
I hate him!  A lot!
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cabrinha has the best bar on the market.
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^^^^ agree
If you find this messy or complicated ....... you are a "special" person
IMO it just doesnt get any simpler
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harry potter said...
^^^^ agree
If you find this messy or complicated ....... you are a "special" person
IMO it just doesnt get any simpler
Thats where they catch you out. The cabrinha's look simple but the moment you have to untangle them from trees they're complicated.
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Troyrotor said...
For unhooking I want nothing in the way of my chicken loop, cause flying towards the beach unable to hook back in isnt fun.
I have also had the depower line on a BTBD wrap around the bar when unhooking, locking the bar to the chicken loop at full power.
That sounds totally crap m8! My AtB hooked the bar & was doing the death loop on the beach and I was in panic mode. I can't imagine having this happen mid jump - shykes!
As to trimming on the fly, I have seen videos of Dimitri constantly adjusting the trim whilst on board, so, if it's good enough for him....... no worries.
The fact that the Ozone AtB is so simple actually makes ATB sound a little more appealing to me, so now i'm gonna check
ATBs
Cabs and Ozone
BTBs
Airrush,SS & Naish
I have a 2011 BTB Naish bar coming in next week so can't wait to give it a try with the quiver
Hey Daggy thanks for the vote - easy to laugh after! Cheers
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For those who could be interested on it, I've posted on Griffin Kites Forum a DIY tutorial to change easily from a below the bar to an above the bar depower.
The description is based on a GRIFFIN standard below the bar depower system, but could be made the same way with small changes from any othe brand below the bar depower system.
Reverse way can be done maybe still easier.
http://www.griffinkites.com.au/component/kunena/9-maintenance-tips/119-change-from-below-the-bar-to-above-the-bar-depower
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some one mentioned the Zeeko bar earlier. it is a great system, it can be above the bar OR below the bar anytime you want and no loose ropes flying around when you depower(actually trim) the kite. best of both worlds and you can make one yourself for cheap.
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Saffer said...
If you have an issue with above the bar systems, try find one which has an adjustable option to move the strap closer or further. The north bar as an example allows you to move the depower rope closer to you but you can shift it further away if you need the extra depower room for gusty days. There are also other options like the new Zeeko bar which looks pretty nifty and doesn't have a rope at all so its worth considering as an aftermarket option.
That looks totally sick, so much better than straps and dare i say it BTB cleats!
where can I check these out in Oz?
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harry potter said...
^^^^ agree
If you find this messy or complicated ....... you are a "special" person
IMO it just doesnt get any simpler
I haven't seen many bar systems break, but the few I have were mostly cabrinhas
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au_rick said...
harry potter said...
^^^^ agree
If you find this messy or complicated ....... you are a "special" person
IMO it just doesnt get any simpler
I haven't seen many bar systems break, but the few I have were mostly cabrinhas
yep broken about 3 myself......
if you kite very regularly, adjust your trim strap regularly, dump you bar in the sand and dont rinse it after sessions The straps can get sand embedded into them after many adjustments this sand can wear through the strap. ( im talking two solid seasons worth ) it doesnt bring a sudden end to your session just means you cant trim it.
I have not changed my bar abuse habits and my 2011 kite is not showing anywhere near the wear of my previous versions.
but yes it can be an issue
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pattiecannon said...
Saffer said...
If you have an issue with above the bar systems, try find one which has an adjustable option to move the strap closer or further. The north bar as an example allows you to move the depower rope closer to you but you can shift it further away if you need the extra depower room for gusty days. There are also other options like the new Zeeko bar which looks pretty nifty and doesn't have a rope at all so its worth considering as an aftermarket option.
That looks totally sick, so much better than straps and dare i say it BTB cleats!
where can I check these out in Oz?
To a search for the Aus zeeko distributor. He is based in Melbourne. Been meaning to check it out to see how well it would work in practice.
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