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Cheap nasty board build advice please.

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Created by Kay1982 > 9 months ago, 1 Feb 2015
Kay1982
NSW, 274 posts
1 Feb 2015 1:27PM
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G'day everyone
I havn't had a good session in four weeks and there doesn't seem to be any wind for another one so after swearing to sell all my gear I have now decided to build a board instead.
The aim is to make it cheap nasty and awesome, is there any reason I can't just rip a polyester/coremat mold off my 145×48lightwind board then lay up the centre 138×40 on the mold with a freerideish outline.
As for layup I'm thinking 300g biax bottom/6mm corecell/300g biax with some kind of strip stringer down the centre maybe 4inch heavy carbon unidirec tape.
Add some 4×19mm alley inserts anchor points for footpads and come up with an idea for edges maybe dremil/router out the core along the edges 4mm in and fill with cotton flock paste.
For resin thinking epoxy but have no idea on brand as I've been out of the game for ages.
Please any advice would be great, have no experience building boards but in a previous life was a foreman for a surfski manufacture company, aswell I don't want to vacume bag if I don't have to (I don't want to shell out for pump so will be pomping with my kite pump on reverse if I need to get the core down).
The target result is somewhere between plummets exceptional carbon mutant and tophats plank that he found on the beach.
Any advice welcome but would love to hear thoughts on layup and what would be better more or less stiffness for sloppy/choppy onshore conditions to go easy upwind. Cheers for the help .


INTHELOOP
QLD, 1855 posts
1 Feb 2015 12:31PM
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mate just get a hydrofoil and u be flying in sub 10knts on your 12m. everything else is boring in 10knts

Plummet
4862 posts
1 Feb 2015 11:03AM
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Sounds like you have a plan. Make the centre thicker than the tips. 3mm core at tips 7-8mm core in the middle.

Look at the carbon stringers in nomad designs. Biax on the bottom at 0/90 and on the top on the 45's

http://www.nomadkiteboarding.com/index-prototype-carbon-twintip-nomad.html

PS Fridge pump vacuum set up costs very little.

PSS Roll with stainless inserts.

dbabicwa
WA, 805 posts
1 Feb 2015 12:23PM
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Have a look at feebay, there is plenty of Paulownia wood around in QLD. The surfinggreen.com.au is selling some core planks/kits. Do yourself a favor and use Entropy CLR epoxy from them (enviro friendly).

My web shop is http://shop.shinai.co where you can see the PU rails I'm making and how to add them into your core (dremel, router).

You can buy stainless inserts there as well.

Good luck.

SugarQube
WA, 490 posts
1 Feb 2015 1:15PM
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cheap and nasty yes, awesome no.

It is actualy a lot of work to make a realy great board, but its a great experience and its def awesome riding something you made yourself.

Building boards takes time to get right, like how much resin to use and vacuum setings so that your boards dont end up with dry spots, bubbles, welts etc

Then you have to buy pads , straps, fins etc, for maybe one board, some run out models are cheaper to buy,

maybe a foil would do the trick as intheloop said if wind is the issue

Kay1982
NSW, 274 posts
1 Feb 2015 5:15PM
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Fellas thanks for the info I am tottally pumped now, after checking up on some of those^^ websites I think I've changed my mind and instead of going for cheap and nasty I'm going for no holds barred spectacular success. Plummet that nomad board is a work of art, yea don't know what I was thinking stainless inserts it is (stronger and no electrolisis issues with bolts) aswell thanks for the lead on fridge compressor pump we used to use graphite centrefuge pumps back in the day and the thought of paying for that scared me right off the idea of bagging. Dbabicwa you have sorted my rail issue those pu mold ins look awesome (that sexy carbon 195g has also made me think my layup will now be 6 ounce twill 195g carbon 6mm corecell with a bit added in centre 195g carbon 6 ounce although Ill have to think about this properly).
As for buying a foil Marvin I'm so uncoordinated giving me foil to ride would be like when some of my countrymen gave a ak47 to a chimpanzee please check youtube for what went down. edit: will prob stick with corecell because I know it and its simple to work with.

Plummet
4862 posts
1 Feb 2015 3:36PM
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Don't go full carbon on your first board unless you have access to free or supercheap carbon. As Mr Qube states. It takes time to refine your idea's. Your first board will be ok but is unlikely to be great. Build one, ride it for a while then go full fruit build on number 2 or 3.

Since its way cheaper to buy materials in bulk. Resins, core materials, glass carbon etc. The cost for 3+ boards will be similar to the cost of one.

The best thing you can do to make a sweet board is to research, research, research. Its free and will be the difference between an excellent and potentially crap board.

Learn from other peoples mistakes. Look at the current board designs that work really well at the type of riding you want to do then figure out what makes those boards so good. Rocker, waterline, conave, flex patterns, outline shape, fin placement ect, ect.


Here's another link to inject some ideas into your head.

http://www.brokite.com/2012/page/techtalk.html


KAOS69
WA, 1012 posts
1 Feb 2015 3:54PM
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check this out all you will ever want to know about building kiteboard stuff www.boardbuilders.co/p/forum.html

Kay1982
NSW, 274 posts
1 Feb 2015 8:09PM
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Again fellas thank you both those sites are exactly what I needed, the brokite split core wrapping is the first time I've seen that done and made me go look at all the boards in my garage. I'm thinking now that too rigid will be better than too soft. Plummet you are right, maybe my recollection of how awesome a plastic tech I was is because I forgot all the stuffups I made so back to the glass layup for starters but after the afternoons research definitely doubling core till at least just past footstraps then rounding the top layer so not to give a straight line for it to crease on. Will focus on ripping the mold this week and ordering rails etc. One last thing if I go for the ssteel inserts do I need the plastic grommets they sit (where do you get them) in or can I just encase them in cotton flock/fibre paste I know its prob somewhere in the boardbuilder forum but since you guys have already used them I may as well ask.Cheers.

dbabicwa
WA, 805 posts
1 Feb 2015 11:59PM
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Select to expand quote
awkward customer said..
... do I need the plastic grommets they sit ...


No plastic grommets at my builds. But I use wood only. Or a bamboo.

jamesperth
WA, 610 posts
2 Feb 2015 7:03PM
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Not trying to hijack the thread by any means but dbabicwa, is building a board really something a mere mortal can achieve ? I thought you'd need a ton of tools and stuff, is that not the case ? Totally interested to see where this goes....

Plummet
4862 posts
2 Feb 2015 7:29PM
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Select to expand quote
jamesperth said..
Not trying to hijack the thread by any means but dbabicwa, is building a board really something a mere mortal can achieve ? I thought you'd need a ton of tools and stuff, is that not the case ? Totally interested to see where this goes....


Anyone can build a board if he/she chooses to do so.

Once you break it down they are pretty easy to build. Its really just a mildly shaped plank.

But it will take some time to go from no knowledge to getting close to production board performance!!! There are so many variables than need to be considered, tried, refined.

Of course once sufficiently skilled the great thing about building your own board is that you can make it selfishly for yourself and no body else. Production boards have to suit many riders at a price point therefore they can't go to the extremes that your custom board can.

jamesperth
WA, 610 posts
2 Feb 2015 9:45PM
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But what average guy has a vacuum thingy and carbon bits and pieces ? Sure I can take a belt sander to some plywood but to do the rocker and composites ? Pretty keen but.

So the thing is I'm thinking I want a mutant. This should be close to your heart :)

dbabicwa
WA, 805 posts
3 Feb 2015 12:07AM
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Select to expand quote
jamesperth said..
But what average guy has a vacuum thingy and carbon bits and pieces ? Sure I can take a belt sander to some plywood but to do the rocker and composites ? Pretty keen but.

So the thing is I'm thinking I want a mutant. This should be close to your heart :)


Yes, anyone can build and it CAN be awesome :) Working in IT, so no expert in any trade. Never owned any power tools.

I am still riding my first board, that is 4 years of riding. The inserts threads are finally gone (non SS back than), and will retire the board. Not bad for a piece of ply wood. What's my riding style with this board? Freestyle. Big air being 59kg. Riding VX and HiFi.

Tools? A dremel can do a lot, but router is better with 1/4 inches routing bit. A board template is a must either way. A jigsaw (I cut by hand with Japan made Razor saw - it does cut fingers too :).

Sanding is hard work. Avoid as possible. Buy a bamboo sheet, marine ply or corecell 5mm and that is it as a core. Slap a second sheet on top to keep a rocker and concave in. How you'll do that totally depends on time/money/effort etc. I do no think doing everything at once is a go. To much stress, to many things can go wrong. See on a vid how I do the rails? Easy process, no errors, no mess at all. 5 mins and done. 15 if lazy. Dremel tool to get rid of excess with a small routing bit + a sanding block (no belt sander).

No composites in my build. A bit of carbon here and there but that is why I started a Web shop. So you guys can get easier what I've struggled with...

Cheers

D.

Plummet
4862 posts
3 Feb 2015 7:21AM
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There is immense satisfaction in riding something you have built. particularly if it works real well. Even better when you start to get very specific in your wants. You can exceed the performance of production boards for those very specific applications.

The mutant is a good example. There is very little choice on the market. The only one commonly available is the mako . A great board but doesn't do everything that i want a mutant to do. For example quad fins works best on a mutant. Mako only has 3 fin thruster option..... The fins are too far back to get real tight turns on the wave face....

Like kite surfing be prepared for it to take a year or so of learning and stuffing up before you start getting good.... know what you want and know how to get it.




flyingcab
VIC, 942 posts
3 Feb 2015 2:19PM
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For the rails, rout it out as deep as possible, without going all the way through, then fill with resin. Most brands use epoxy or polyester, depending on what resin they will use when laying the glass.
Protip; router out any channels or any detail before putting the rocker in, its near impossible to do after the board has rocker.
Another good wood to use is western red cedar, although it can be expensive new, a lot of old furniture is made out of it.

dbabicwa
WA, 805 posts
3 Feb 2015 11:42AM
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Select to expand quote
Plummet said..
There is immense satisfaction in riding something you have built. particularly if it works real well. Even better when you start to get very specific in your wants. You can exceed the performance of production boards for those very specific applications.

The mutant is a good example. There is very little choice on the market. The only one commonly available is the mako . A great board but doesn't do everything that i want a mutant to do. For example quad fins works best on a mutant. Mako only has 3 fin thruster option..... The fins are too far back to get real tight turns on the wave face....

Like kite surfing be prepared for it to take a year or so of learning and stuffing up before you start getting good.... know what you want and know how to get it.







Mutant is a very good example and I see a lot of guys interested in your build :)

If you post your outline and other details I can build it for sure, stick a Plummet name on it and put it in the KSS at Scarbs (wa) for a demo!


Select to expand quote
flyingcab said..
For the rails, rout it out as deep as possible, without going all the way through, then fill with resin. Most brands use epoxy or polyester, depending on what resin they will use when laying the glass.
Protip; router out any channels or any detail before putting the rocker in, its near impossible to do after the board has rocker.
Another good wood to use is western red cedar, although it can be expensive new, a lot of old furniture is made out of it.


Good tip but you're mistaken about the rails. None of big boys are using epoxy or polyester for the rails.

It is all PU now. PU shore 80-90D, elongation break way more than epoxy or poly.

Plummet
4862 posts
3 Feb 2015 1:01PM
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Select to expand quote
dbabicwa said..







Mutant is a very good example and I see a lot of guys interested in your build :)

If you post your outline and other details I can build it for sure, stick a Plummet name on it and put it in the KSS at Scarbs (wa) for a demo!





But would it be ideal for someone else???? I built it specifically to be able to take double head plus steep lumpy faces without nosediving, be super smooth through chop and smash full pace into wave lips backwards without any hesitation.... and hold gobs of power. So it has a tone of rocker plus even more on the front micro kick....

That makes it a power hungry over rockered board for average Perth conditions.

But sure i can dredge up some details. I guess all you need to do is dial back the rocker to more normal levels and it will make it less power hungry and better upwind in less extreme conditions. But not as good in the super big conditions.... if you don't have those conditions then it doesn't matter.

dbabicwa
WA, 805 posts
3 Feb 2015 1:28PM
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^

I'm not a wave rider, can't comment...Anyone?

BTW, now is a time to jump start kiteboards making in OZ. The dollar is plummeting, meaning $$$$ for a board.

stabber
NSW, 1114 posts
4 Feb 2015 12:39AM
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I say a harden the flicken up and go and rage on!

Skid
QLD, 1499 posts
4 Feb 2015 3:29PM
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It is possible to make ridable plywood boards with a router, sander and a few basic tools (including a steam mop and ****e load of clamps to set concave and rocker)....

Enjoy the process and the riding....







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"Cheap nasty board build advice please." started by Kay1982