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Author Raceboy's lets talk turkey
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NSW
509 Posts
Posted 2/2/2012, 6:33 pm        Report
OK guys so who has decent experience and knowledge on the raceboards? I've done racing on windsurfers although a few years ago and now hitting the race board.. 1st so is it quicker to have bard flat or off camber( letting the fin drive and lift the windward rail of board) I have the north LTD 69 three fin and the lift off the fins is enormous I'm used to being right out on the rail having the board off cambered, this feels quite natural to me, and it cranks up wind with amazing speed.. 2nd I've got gybing happening however I find I always have to down loop the kite or else I loose complete line tension through the gybe.. 3rd tacking, been practising the Backroll tack, getting closer. Does anyone know of any decent video shots of the guys doing this to get a better idea? 4th Now Racing is there a light wind limit or Kite size limit? I can be absolutely hammering and over powered on the 19m Spleen foil and the LTD with 430 fins in 8-10knts, 5th, No I haven't done any racing agaisnt other kiteboarders yet, currently practising against my formula windsurfing mates. I figure once I get the tacking sorted I might be good enough to start hitting a few races. However I will be in Townsville for the Nationals in June.. Come on boys help me and eachother out, Lets get this Racing stuff happening :) Cheers Dave
QLD
86 Posts
Posted 2/2/2012, 7:14 pm        Report
1/ flat board 2/ always down loop the kite gybing .your not going to be real popular with other racers unless you can down loop the kite in a gybe / or rounding a mark. 3/ google or YouTube heaps of tacking videos . 4/ 19 m kite size limit . You can only have 3kites per regatta (registered) minimum 5 kts average maximum 25 kts average 5/ keep practicing ,you need to be able to get around the coarse without falling off Look up the international kite racing rules ,very similar to the sailboard one with adjustments for kiting .there is an amendment which came out janurary 2012. http://www.internationalkiteboarding.org/images/documents/manuals/AppendixBBJan2012.pdf Good luck
WA
201 Posts
Posted 2/2/2012, 7:54 pm        Report
HI I am in the same situation. Really want to get into kite racing after doing the Lighthouse to Leighton race last year. Unfortunately all the racing in WA seems to occur on a Saturday when I have to work. I have the original Airush Monaro Board which was great for the L2L if I did not mess before the start I would have been quite successful. It is great across the wind on a reach but is not as good as the newer boards up wind. I am still trying to mast both a tack and a gybe but really need someone to show me the basics and be prepared to wipeout a bit. It is scary how racing could turn into "I got more money than you" sport. I hope not. Can any one in Perth show me some skills?
VIC
3775 Posts
Posted 2/2/2012, 8:11 pm        Report
QLD
86 Posts
Posted 2/2/2012, 8:33 pm        Report
Intheozone said...
HI It is scary how racing could turn into "I got more money than you" sport. I hope not. Can any one in Perth show me some skills?
I know where your coming from with the expense part. I've owned / been campaigning racing yachts / high performance dinghies / mulithulls for the last 30+ years ( been racing boats since 8 years old ,now 40) .these kite race set ups bang for buck is the most affordable type of completive sailing in the world for the performance they deliver , a lot of world class sailors are switching from boats to kite racing because of the affordability ,and the balls out performance. Now there is a box rule so there are limits on sizes of boards / fins/kites ect.
QLD
86 Posts
Posted 2/2/2012, 8:42 pm        Report
For those who have never seen or riden a race board ,this vid will give you a little idea of the performance . I would be suprised if the wind is much over 10 knots.
NSW
122 Posts
Posted 2/2/2012, 8:45 pm        Report
Come down to the race this Saturday on Botany Bay. Should be light wind and you will have a better set up than most.
WA
2186 Posts
Posted 2/2/2012, 8:47 pm        Report
Yo source check out the videos on www,flyozone.com ozone edge,they've a great video set in san Francisco,about 30mins solely on racing if wasn't such a retard with the pc id post it for you
WA
103 Posts
Posted 2/2/2012, 9:32 pm        Report
Intheozone said...
It is scary how racing could turn into "I got more money than you" sport. I hope not.
I totally agree with you when you say: "It is scary how racing could turn into "I got more money than you" sport. Indeed, I think the box rule is a complete aberration for keeping kite-racing open and accessible.... I think this rule has only come from the pressure of the big brands... We're still very far away from trying to race one-design in kiting, as outlined by Mr Neil Pryde when referring to kiting in Olympics: the sport still needs a lot of development and improvements, so there is very little interest for the sport to block gear development like that, more-so when the sport (kite-racing) is still in its beginnings... Also, if anyone wants to enter a race with a home made surfboard or raceboard, well sorry... your board is not IKA certified, so you cannot race...!? Basically, if you do not have the money to afford a $1500 race-board, and can only afford to "customize" your old surfboard, the box rule keeps you out of the race... I sincerely think this is not helping the "democratisation" and development of kite-racing... Who knows, maybe we will all be racing on foil boards in 5 years time...? Any way, it is good to see more people getting into racing, but I think this box rule is not good...
NSW
171 Posts
Posted 2/2/2012, 9:59 pm        Report
eneour said...
Intheozone said...
It is scary how racing could turn into "I got more money than you" sport. I hope not.
I totally agree with you when you say: "It is scary how racing could turn into "I got more money than you" sport. Indeed, I think the box rule is a complete aberration for keeping kite-racing open and accessible.... I think this rule has only come from the pressure of the big brands... We're still very far away from trying to race one-design in kiting, as outlined by Mr Neil Pryde when referring to kiting in Olympics: the sport still needs a lot of development and improvements, so there is very little interest for the sport to block gear development like that, more-so when the sport (kite-racing) is still in its beginnings... Also, if anyone wants to enter a race with a home made surfboard or raceboard, well sorry... your board is not IKA certified, so you cannot race...!? Basically, if you do not have the money to afford a $1500 race-board, and can only afford to "customize" your old surfboard, the box rule keeps you out of the race... I sincerely think this is not helping the "democratisation" and development of kite-racing... Who knows, maybe we will all be racing on foil boards in 5 years time...? Any way, it is good to see more people getting into racing, but I think this box rule is not good...
I think the box rule is good, the rule about it being a "production" board needs to go. Currently a minimum of 50 boards has to be produced to go into competition. I would love to build one on a budget, as for me it would be the only way to keep up with the technology, my 2010 board and 2008 kite just doesn't cut it. What should a racing 3 kite quiver be? 19, 13, 8?
WA
103 Posts
Posted 2/2/2012, 10:26 pm        Report
yeah, sorry, but yes all my whinging is about the production board rule within that box rule
WA
482 Posts
Posted 3/2/2012, 10:51 am        Report
From what I know - in local / state events you can race anything you like unless organiser is a control freak and tool. More racers the better I say. Race on any craft and have fun. For international IKA type racers and you will be trying to win Asian/ European / American / World kite racing series you then need a IKA rego board in 2012. If you race in an IKA event and win a race on non rego board you just get a DNF result if they check you board. If this is important to you you need an IKA rego board. 99.9% of local kite racers this means nothing.
WA
201 Posts
Posted 3/2/2012, 11:08 am        Report
I have also been racing yachts and dinghy's since I was 6 now 30. I have been kiting since 2003 but still get left behind with the cost of it all, (the joys of working at a yacht club) I don't necessarily want to be the next world champion but I would love to get good at kite racing so I can race people around the buoys. I would love to go out and thrash the yachts in the clubs inshore racing. hehe Anyone in Perth who wants to go out on race boards in the evenings or on Sundays PM me
WA
2065 Posts
Posted 3/2/2012, 11:11 am        Report
Intheozone said...
I have also been racing yachts and dinghy's since I was 6 now 30. I have been kiting since 2003 but still get left behind with the cost of it all, (the joys of working at a yacht club) I don't necessarily want to be the next world champion but I would love to get good at kite racing so I can race people around the buoys. I would love to go out and thrash the yachts in the clubs inshore racing. hehe Anyone in Perth who wants to go out on race boards in the evenings or on Sundays PM me
inthezone i have just bought a sector 60 from damo at airborne . I would suggest getting down to the race this sunday arvo . Or pop into airborne and have a chat to damo . Good bloke and happy to talk course racing . Knows his **** as well . Sector 60 is a massive change from a tt having never ridden a directional but **** me i love that board . Now to master duck tacks
NSW
509 Posts
Posted 3/2/2012, 6:44 pm        Report
This is great thankyou for all the info guys.. I should introduce myself for those who don't know me.. I'm Dave I worked I worked with Andy Regan for Slingshot/Mystic for 12 years doing windsurfing and kiteboarding.. I've done events all over Australia from the very early years when things were just getting started and rules and regulations were something we all feared and have despite all our deepest fears our sport has gone ahead in leaps and bounds with very few true regulations on gear, locations etc. Looking at racing we need a few boundaries and I agree local events should be able to be entered by all on almost any equipment. I think like bike racing gear needs to be of a standard that is classed as safe for rider and other competitors. This is standard for almost any sport these days. I actually like the idea of any one riding any board as it means more development and cheaper plus keeps local shapers in business :) At the same time I think having international size regulations for International or large events means it is keeping gear with in reach of the average joe.. Specially limiting the amount of kites you can register for a race.. One thing is I think limiting the wind speed to 25knts seems a little odd, I mean who doesn't love getting out there in the 30-35 knt days and blasting thats when it's at it's best :) I love my kiting all of it freestyle wave and I think race is going to be massive, drawing in yatchies, and sailors of all disciplines who see kiting as a cheaper and far easier transportable racing sport, ever seen how much gear a windsurfer who formula races has to cart withthem you needed either a massive trailer or van to move it around with.. I sport is so accessible and easy to learn by your self and the light wind is amazing.. I'll be tryignt o get to Dolls for the racing this sunday if wind is light and I am able to put off my current lessons for a day or so and meet a few of you and see whats happening Cheers Dave
South Sandwich Islands
1075 Posts
Posted 3/2/2012, 6:56 pm        Report
Yes, we all love ya sorce...ya saucy devil you...
NSW
171 Posts
Posted 3/2/2012, 8:03 pm        Report
well in that case im going to build one for the nationals in june. how hard can it be?
NSW
4266 Posts
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Posted 3/2/2012, 8:43 pm        Report
archie00 said...
Come down to the race this Saturday on Botany Bay. Should be light wind and you will have a better set up than most.
Racing this weekend is on Sunday, wind tomorrow will be sucking not blowing. IKA - seems like it is all about trying to control the sport, before we really have a sport to control = recipe to kill sport. IKA imposes approx $4000USD to register a kite or a board!!! Why does the sport need this? Anyway in Oz, and certainly in our local racing series we do not impose these rules on the people wanting to grow the sport, bring anything you want to race, any size kite and any size board. I hope the IKA rules are not imposed on our Nationals, but they probably will be? Dave watch this and talk to me about getting some Edges??
NSW
691 Posts
Posted 3/2/2012, 8:46 pm        Report
wind has been sucking for a while steve.
NSW
4266 Posts
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Posted 3/2/2012, 8:54 pm        Report
Really? I had not noticed.
QLD
482 Posts
Posted 3/2/2012, 9:22 pm        Report
sorse said...
This is great thankyou for all the One thing is I think limiting the wind speed to 25knts seems a little odd, I mean who doesn't love getting out there in the 30-35 knt days and blasting thats when it's at it's best :) Cheers Dave
Most dinghy's and catamaran classes have and max wind threshold around the 25 kt mark for racing . After that it starts getting too dangerous , I must add that's an average speed at the committee /start boat on the coarse , that's not to say your not going to gets some 35 kt scuds come through after the start when your halfway round the coarse.! Imagine how dangerous it would be to have 20-30 out of control kite boards meters from each other probably doing 35 kts+ in 30 - 35 kts of wind , don't think too many race committees / yacht clubs have that good insurance.
VIC
3775 Posts
Posted 3/2/2012, 9:57 pm        Report
stabber said...
Yes, we all love ya sorce...ya saucy devil you...
Damn, I thought you were coming into the topic to talk about Stabber Raceboards. You could call them knife stabs
QLD
482 Posts
Posted 3/2/2012, 10:33 pm        Report
Kitepower Australia said...
archie00 said...
Come down to the race this Saturday on Botany Bay. Should be light wind and you will have a better set up than most.
IKA - seems like it is all about trying to control the sport, before we really have a sport to control = recipe to kill sport. IKA imposes approx $4000USD to register a kite or a board!!!
I'll have a go at answering this one....Yes they are trying to put some boundaries on the sport ,I use to sail moth skiffs ,these are a development class there are 3 rules pretty much the boat can be so long ,so wide and x amount of sail area.....no min weight anything else goes......if you got 1 or 2 seasons out of a brand new boat and keep it in one piece whilst staying competitive you were doing well. The boats were getting redicullasly light ,the hulls were getting narrower to the point that they were 20-30 cm wide , nowadays they all run hydrofoils , the expenses of keeping up with hull and rig developments was stupid and when it came to sell your 2 year old boat they were worth nothing ,they were no longer as competitive as the top guys so very hard to sell.yes there is a place for this type of class to push the boundaries and those who sail them love em . Other classes I sailed 505's were stricter in their rules the boats are competitive for many ,many years ( with new sails ect) and when it's time to upgrade they are still with some decent coin. Got to ask yourself would you rather a kiteboard that lasted 3-4 years and was still competitive because of the stricter rules built to a min weight ect ,even if you sold it after a couple of years you would get something for it ,,,or a board which is super expensive to buy , super lightweight , probably buggered after 1 year of hard racing , no one will buy it cos it's possible stuffed or in the 12 months of development in the scene since you got it something beter has come out? My point is that if you have a development class say for kite racing ( I'm not saying there is not room for an open class for those with heaps of cash who want to push the boundaries) the gear will be virtually outdated by the time that average Joe gets a chance to buy it from the kite shop. With the box rule there are strict limits on board sizes , fin lengths , board weights , kite max sizes , number of kite you can use in a regatta.if it were open development class guys would be running hydrofoils , custom build race kites that might only last a dozen races then they would be stuffed , boards which are built super light and again stuffed in half a season, all this to stay on top . Your talking $4000 to reg a board or kite through the ika , that's a little steep but I think the rule about the amount of productions kites / boards (50 i think) which have to be produced is fair this gets people on production boards which are very similar brand to brand and it gets people off the super lightweight ,super expensive custom boards.you want to be able to go into a kite shop and buy the kite and the board that the current world champion is using ,I don't think this will be at all out of the question with the box rule. Saying this course racing in Australia if fairly new and not as popular .to attract intrest in the sport and Not make it too elite for others I think it would be an idea to have several classes. 1 would be the guys who want to race under the ika rules ( international box rule ) call it production class . the 2 nd class would be everything else custom boards, surfboards , twin tips ,hydrofoils ect.the 2 nd class would not have all the rules and restrictions as the production class but would offer some good fun racing for those involved. Jay
NSW
509 Posts
Posted 4/2/2012, 3:06 pm        Report
Nice work Rattle head and Steve great video.. Now Steve I will have SUP stuff going tomorrow morning but if not to tired afterwards I'll see if I can get to sydney come and catch up.. Would love to experience the racing and meet all the guys.. Rattle head makes some good points, I think the IKA have based there design model off the windsurfing Formula fleets, they originally created the box rule for the reason it was to expensive to freight Boards over a metre wide. What they also brought in later is that a board design would be created and unchanged for 2 yrs before a new one brought out, this allows guys to sell on after a year and guys picking up the second hand gear to have a current model board for a good price. I think good second hand race boards will be very hard to find and the cheaper entry level race boards who are competitive will dominate the market for guys coming in the sport. Have to remember guys the guy who is fastest is the guy who is most comfortable and in control of there gear.. Not necessarily the guy on the fastest most technical gear. Having money to buy gear doesn't mean you can ride it the best. I already know if I manage to make it to sydney I won't be a competitive racer this weekend as I'm still learning how to ride my gear, it's far quicker then I am capable of riding it yet. Plus inability to Tack will put me out of contention I think as well. Racing isn't only about winning, it's about enjoying the ride, and my approach is to improve on my own abilities and progress every time you hit the water, somedays it's a step backwards, other days it's two steps forwards :) If it was to easy it wouldn't be any fun.. Gotta go weekend calls Cheers Dave
NSW
509 Posts
Posted 7/2/2012, 10:45 am        Report
OK boys and girls thought I should say hi and let you know how I went at Botany Bay on the weekend as I got to race with all the Sydney guys and Ric black.. Firstly thankyou to Steve and all the guys and girls who helped put on the event, Thanks to Ric for being on my back and driving me there and home.. And to all competitors as other wise no race with you guys. So I hit the water for about a 15minute practise, and was all over the place, swimming more then riding, lost my sunnnies in no time, then figured had to ditch the hat other wise I'd be forever going back for it.. After ditching hat a quick rest had another very quick run before the start I managed a little better and made my first ever duck Tack, from first attempt to this successful one took about 15 go's. However I didn't manage to get even one in the races later on. Ok so First race I took my time I didn't want to get in anyones road at the start, I actually waited till the guys hit the water before following them out. about 30sec's to a minute behind the leaders. I then went at it. I was extremely surprised hwo fast I over took alot of people the new board certainly out points everything anyone else was riding.. I got as far up as thrid in this race but feel on the down wind leg and Rich Stenning over took me and I finished 4th. Second Race I started in the main fleet with everyone else and was first to the top mark quiet easily, on the downwind leg I struggled and was over taken by Jordan, I was first back to the Top mark and this time ate it twice badly on the down wind leg getting over taken by both Jordan and Rich, So I finihsed third. Thirda race I started with eveyrone else, slightly in front of some, and pretty much fromthe first boy led all the way through the race, using a different tack tick and angle down wind I managed to stay on the board produce a better line to the bouy and won quite easily. After the success in my first race I dominated the race last to win very easily. Would like to think a big part of the strong finish in last two races was due to getting used to botht eh equipment and the conditions Botany Bay produces very sever chop, although the wind was prefect for my 11m kite. Was a massive learning experience as Rich Stenning deifnitely out foxed me in the finding wind department in the second race, by taking a different tactic. Pros' to take away board is fast up wind very fast and with Practise during the race I managed One successful Gybe, hoping with more practise can dial in the gybes and duck tacks to be much faster, as well as need more speed and technique down wind.. I know my winning was fairly gear based the board was the 2nd newest there. Big thanks again to everyone for smiles support and I hope Jordan manages to get his kite fixed in time for the next race and I hope to be there.. Cheers Dave Hope this helps others..
VIC
3775 Posts
Posted 7/2/2012, 11:25 am        Report
sorse said...
OK boys and girls thought I should say hi and let you know how I went at Botany Bay on the weekend as I got to race with all the Sydney guys and Ric black.. Firstly thankyou to Steve and all the guys and girls who helped put on the event, Thanks to Ric for being on my back and driving me there and home.. And to all competitors as other wise no race with you guys. So I hit the water for about a 15minute practise, and was all over the place, swimming more then riding, lost my sunnnies in no time, then figured had to ditch the hat other wise I'd be forever going back for it.. After ditching hat a quick rest had another very quick run before the start I managed a little better and made my first ever duck Tack, from first attempt to this successful one took about 15 go's. However I didn't manage to get even one in the races later on. Ok so First race I took my time I didn't want to get in anyones road at the start, I actually waited till the guys hit the water before following them out. about 30sec's to a minute behind the leaders. I then went at it. I was extremely surprised hwo fast I over took alot of people the new board certainly out points everything anyone else was riding.. I got as far up as thrid in this race but feel on the down wind leg and Rich Stenning over took me and I finished 4th. Second Race I started in the main fleet with everyone else and was first to the top mark quiet easily, on the downwind leg I struggled and was over taken by Jordan, I was first back to the Top mark and this time ate it twice badly on the down wind leg getting over taken by both Jordan and Rich, So I finihsed third. Thirda race I started with eveyrone else, slightly in front of some, and pretty much fromthe first boy led all the way through the race, using a different tack tick and angle down wind I managed to stay on the board produce a better line to the bouy and won quite easily. After the success in my first race I dominated the race last to win very easily. Would like to think a big part of the strong finish in last two races was due to getting used to botht eh equipment and the conditions Botany Bay produces very sever chop, although the wind was prefect for my 11m kite. Was a massive learning experience as Rich Stenning deifnitely out foxed me in the finding wind department in the second race, by taking a different tactic. Pros' to take away board is fast up wind very fast and with Practise during the race I managed One successful Gybe, hoping with more practise can dial in the gybes and duck tacks to be much faster, as well as need more speed and technique down wind.. I know my winning was fairly gear based the board was the 2nd newest there. Big thanks again to everyone for smiles support and I hope Jordan manages to get his kite fixed in time for the next race and I hope to be there.. Cheers Dave Hope this helps others..
Which board were you on?
NSW
509 Posts
Posted 7/2/2012, 3:22 pm        Report
Sorry gear was the North LTD 2011 69 running 40cm fins Also had the 11m Rebel up standard bar and lines. I had a quick run on the Alex Ague--- board can't remember how to spell it and can't pronounce it either. Despite knowing his son's names from long experience in windsurfing. I had a brain storm while riding as well. If you watch the video's and are wondering why the guys have a long line going to there depower it is probably because they have there bar fairly well locked down and do very little bar movement this translates into a more stable kite and more excelleration when hit by a gust rather then just sheeting out, if conditions change outside of this range you use the trim for finer adjustments rather then the massive bar adjustments. Also on this if you need to reach forward either sheeting out or reaching to your trim strapp you shift your balance over the board, therefore changing your good stance and possibly dropping a rail. Which can send you straight into the water and out of the lead :) So can anyone else help me with feed back? or thought's?
NSW
171 Posts
Posted 7/2/2012, 3:45 pm        Report
how much is that board and fins complete?
NSW
122 Posts
Posted 7/2/2012, 5:51 pm        Report
Think you might need a new kite first :))!!
NSW
509 Posts
Posted 8/2/2012, 10:31 am        Report
Hey Jordan I don't even know if you can get one? It's a 2011 model and the new model 2012 version is coming in March, It will be $1799.00 and fins are $269.00 or $289.00 for a set of three size depending.
WA
2065 Posts
Posted 8/2/2012, 11:23 am        Report
sorse said...
Hey Jordan I don't even know if you can get one? It's a 2011 model and the new model 2012 version is coming in March, It will be $1799.00 and fins are $269.00 or $289.00 for a set of three size depending.
was anyone on a sector 60 at all ? fins extra ? $1200 ish for sector 60 seems like a better option
 
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