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Cleaning out the shed..... Again!

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Created by grlynch > 9 months ago, 18 Jun 2016
grlynch
QLD, 208 posts
18 Jun 2016 3:45PM
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It's been a while, but I am finally back! (Blood work getting in the way!)

The last mini has not progressed much. Will be back on that shortly.

Started to go through the stock of sails I have and see what I can do. as last time out in Ruff-Azz was a little traumatic, (lets just say broken mast, ripped sail, Bent boom, Big bruises, loss of self esteem.... you know!)

I have this;












Then I did this;


So I can do this;


Now the question I have is when i compare to the last sail i made it is quite narrow and a lot taller.
It should be about 4.5m bit the luff length is about 4.9m. which is quite a lot longer than any mast i have.



However my question is, It is better or worse to have a taller and skinnier sail?

Without putting too much brain power into it ATM, I expect the center of pressure has moved forward, But my bigger concern is it has moved up. Would this want to make the yacht want to fall over more so?

Am i just overthinking this? Just extend a mast and go for it?

Cheers

grlynch
QLD, 208 posts
2 Jul 2016 2:48PM
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Got a couple sails cut now. getting ready for a sewing session.


Also trying to work out what to do with my mast collection.
This is what I have;


My plan is to insert about 800mm of the fiberglass masts into the carbon ones to strengthen the base. Question is should I secure these in with polyester or just use liquid nails?

sn
WA, 2775 posts
2 Jul 2016 8:53PM
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When I tried using liquid nails to glue an insert into the base of a mast, the damn goo didnt want to go off properly.

I ended up having to clean out the goo and re-did the job using conventional silastic - which cured properly.


sorry - cant remember what type [neutral cure or acidic?] , or the brand silastic it was........



stephen

grlynch
QLD, 208 posts
3 Jul 2016 7:14AM
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Thanks Stephen,

That was one of the things i was worries about. AFAIK Liquid nails, (and neutral silastic) are moisture cure. So unless water can get in there it cannot go off. Might be more successful to wet the parts before inserting to accelerate the curing.

Acidic Silastic might be the go. I can't imaging the adhesive would contribute the the strength of the mast that much regardless. I am half tempted to just push it if and rely on a friction fit!

Either war was it strong enough with just a mast section to stiffen it?

Cheers

grlynch
QLD, 208 posts
3 Jul 2016 9:04AM
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Still digging stuff out of the corner of the shed. I have had these sails for quite a while. I was trying to just cut my teeth with the old ones before I look at whit to do with these.

However I am a little scared to do anything ATM.




Chook2
WA, 1244 posts
3 Jul 2016 9:37AM
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Please don't cut your Ezzy 6.2. It's perfect as it is!!!

It will need a IMCS 25 mast with internal strengthening at the bottom and maybe a tip extension on a 4600mm mast and no recut at all.

This will handle perfectly on a standard Lake Lefroy mini without any modifications at all. A recut will simply destroy the original design parameters, which is to have low down grunt and high top speeds. Just what we require for sailing.

This will be a perfect lighter wind day sail and you will love its handling characteristics. It will handle just the same as a conventional 4.5m2 sail but be better up and down wind. The tops of these sails twist off perfectly when sheeted out with these top battens with intermediates on the trailing edge.
Also they don't flap like conventional "Mum's laundry" sails do, when you let the sheet rope out when over powered, giving you mast head shake and the associated loss of traction on the front wheel.

This 6.2 will set perfectly as is and if your fussy you can fit a small triangle at the rear for a lowered outhaul that matches your boom angle. I would just fit it and sail before adding this triangle just to see how much nicer an uncut sail is compared to a reshaped one. Also why put your self to all the extra work when it's not ever required.


The same for the Tushingham (is it a 4.7m2) Dont hack it up, just put it on a softer 19 -21 IMCS mast as is and sail. The foot of this sail is much flatter so a longer mast tip extension will be required so the boom clears your shoulder. This is a very simple fix with some old windsurfer boom aluminium slipped over the top, or an old mast tip cut off to suit.

Please give them a go as is and I will promise you that you wont be disappointed.

grlynch
QLD, 208 posts
3 Jul 2016 3:04PM
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Thanks Chook.

I LOVE it when someone suggests that the best thing to do is do absolutely nothing!

With regards to the mast, I have bit of a limited selection at the moment, The big problem is trying to identify what they are. (I know very little about windsurfing gear, I just collect everything i can find)

I have what appears to be 2x carbon masts, (I say that because they are black!)

The Mistral on the right, (from what i can read on the label) says Epoxy.




These mast measure, (left to right)

Length, Diameter at base (Wall thickness), Diameter at tip (Wall Thickness)
Red Thing - 4550, 52 (2), 36.5 (2)
Pinkie (2 Piece) - 4650, 54.2 (2.7), 33 (3)
Bombora - 4445, 53.7 (3.4), 38.5 (2)
Mistral - 4630, 53 (2), 28 (2.4)


I quickly threw them onto with Mistral mast, (without any extension). Basing my opinion on absolutely nothing at all, it looks like the mast should be further forward to use these.






Chook, I'm not clear on how to add a boom without modifying the foot. (Originally I was considering just removing the foot just to straighten it up for a boom.)

Also the Tushinham is 6.5m2

Than ks again!

Chook2
WA, 1244 posts
3 Jul 2016 2:58PM
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Here are my old yachts from 2014. The Neil Pryde is 6.9 and the Gaastra is 6.2.
The Green yacht "Fowl Play" does have an adjustable mast step. (I wont ever bother with the complication of an adjustable mast step again as it was set almost vertical and has never been adjusted since.)

"Poultry in Motion" is a standard Lake Lefroy Mini with the mast step stood up to only 3 degrees of mast rake. If I modify a LLM now I make the mast steps almost vertical to clear the foot of the sail and bring the sail back down the mast.

You can see the yellow tapered triangle added to the outhaul clew on the Gaastra to lower the eyelet. (see the original eyelet above it.) The Pryde just has a loop of seatbelt with 3 bolts through the old eyelet mounting area.


The boom is just tied to the down haul and outhaul eyelets of the sail and a Crocket downhaul used here. The bottom batten has been removed to allow the sail to change sides of the boom. It is great to have the sail overlap the boom and catch the wind until it changes sides when fully powered up. Both of these sails have a 3 to 1 downhaul fitted as per the original windsurfer setup and the bottom pulley block is fastened to a link of chain welded to the mast step. Both are cambered sails as that is all I have used on my minis.

If more authority is needed when turning sharply, simply slide forward under the seat belt or lean forward and get more weight on the front. With these setups the rear is still the first to break out.

Most of the older fibreglass masts seem to come out around the 21 to 25 IMCS when they are 4600mm long. For what you are doing I would just see what mast fits the luff curve of the sail easier and bends under tension to take out the wrinkles in the luff/sail area when fully sheeted in.

Lift the sails up the mast with a tip extension and see how they set. Even a bit of PVC as a mast extension will let you see how much alloy you will finally need. (And allow a bit for the sail stretching to it's original set after a bit of sailing.)

I would stand my mast step up to the vertical position if it was my yacht and get the most out of the sails. (I can weld much better than I can sew, so I'm prejudice in this regard.)

Totally agree with Stephen the liquid nails and "Roof and Gutter" neutral cure never sets. Just put a small countersunk screw through the mast at the very bottom to retain the alloy or old mast insert and then it can be removed later if it gets damaged.

grlynch
QLD, 208 posts
10 Jul 2016 10:17PM
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The clean out continues;

Masts today while I wait for some materials to arrive to modify the sails. (Don't worry Chook, I've not touched the Tushingham or Ezzy...)

I spent my Sunday Morn cutting things and inserting them into other things.

I figure if i can sort some masts out, i'll use them to properly shape the luff curve for the sails.


Jammed 3 pieces onto this one in decreasing lengths. 800mm, 400mm, ~250mm


This second insert is too small, but I figure I'll pack it out with some heatshrink to make a snug fit.



This one, just the one piece ~ 850mm long.




This one I had to slot the tip of the fiberglass mast section insert to get it snug at the base. ~900mm long.




Taa-Daa!




Still clearing out!


grlynch
QLD, 208 posts
16 Jul 2016 7:35AM
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On a few of the sails i have there is varying amounts of mould/rust stains/dirt......

Particularly on the Ripstop and Dacron(?).

Has anyone had any experience cleaning them without destroying them?

I've googled a fair bit and get conflicting information with regards to chemicals. Seems like a dilute bleach might be OK.

Cheers



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"Cleaning out the shed..... Again!" started by grlynch