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Doqo's first attempt...

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Created by Doqo > 9 months ago, 31 Dec 2013
Doqo
SA, 29 posts
31 Dec 2013 8:35AM
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So, with measuring stick in one hand and a hammer in the other, it begins.....






The wooden thingamajig is a piece of Tassie Oak I shaped down with a draw knife and turned on my small metal lathe (with vacuum cleaner going full tilt). It's a temporary "steel tube to fibreglass mast" adaptor. I need to do some more research on finding a suitable steel tube to fit the mast I've acquired.

The bicycle front end is a maybe. I think the Lake Lefroy Mini steering assembly is the way I'll probably go. (Thanks landyacht for posting the build info.)

Gizmo
SA, 2865 posts
31 Dec 2013 8:52AM
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Hi Pete,
While you still have the receipt for Bunnings take the wheels back (they are to soft for a land yacht and you will need to replace them within a short time, so a waste of money) Go to Adelaide Merchandising just off Richmond rd. and get some plastic 'Fallshaw' wheels.
admerch.com.au/

I hope you have seen the thread of how to build a Lefroy mini yacht on seabreeze.
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Land-Yacht-Sailing/Construction/Build-a-Landyacht-Lake-Lefroy-Mini-Yacht/

Send me a message if you need anymore info.... I'm in Adelaide also.

A good steel supplier for odd stuff / different sizes in Adelaide is 'GreenSteel' at Hindmarsh (near the soccer stadium)

Doqo
SA, 29 posts
31 Dec 2013 9:32AM
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Cheers again Gizmo (see SA thread).

I would have gone to Green Steel yesterday, but that slacker Tim obviously twisted Malcolm's arm and they are closed this week. Ha ha ! Yes, one of the best steel merchants on this side of town. We enjoy a two-way business relationship and I rented a workshop from them a year back to build a machine in because my shed is just too small for bigger jobs.

Chook2
WA, 1244 posts
31 Dec 2013 9:41AM
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Should have checked before I replied to you previous thread, sorry.

You need "Fallshaw" 400 x 8 KNO rim and tyre, with 2 PWB10 black adapters, to take 2 of 6004 rubber seal (20mm), high speed bearings. All times 2.

I get mine from,
http://staging.easyrollmh.com.au/wheels-castors/pneumatics/plastic-pneumatics/

The bottom of the page for rim/tyre, across for bush PWB10 and with the second line down of the bearings 107mm x 20mm, for 20mm axle shaft.
If you already have the 1" shaft for your axles (looks like it from the pics) go the 107mm x 1" bearings.

Hope this helps and we look forward to your build pics. Yell out if you get stuck.

Looks like your sorted, but you can also get Fallshaw steering head bushes for 20mm shaft. "SB 20" is the part number (about $1.70 each from memory)
They fit into exhaust tube "sn" said. ( I have just machined up heavy walled water pipe, for them to fit, as that's what I had on hand).

Grey are SB 3/4", black are SB 20mm ID, Inside diameter.


Your going to just love these LLMini's

sn
WA, 2775 posts
31 Dec 2013 10:23AM
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Hey Chook!!

Remember the combined mast extension and reinforcing stiffener I was talking about a couple of weeks ago?

here it is!



stephen

sn
WA, 2775 posts
31 Dec 2013 10:28AM
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Hi Doqo,

the best tube for the main chassis spine is also the same stuff you use for the masts step,

standard 61mm[ish]O.D. fence post steel tube.

If the steel merchants are closed- you can find the stuff lying around on most street verges, often with bonus aluminium sheet bolted to it

stephen

wokelliott
WA, 179 posts
31 Dec 2013 4:18PM
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Hey Stephen, is that the sheeting with signwriting saying "hands off or we'll pinch you" !

Grandkids here are having a ball riding your old recycled electric trike now looking very much like a two wheeler...She goes like a rocket.

Best wishes to all for a good year in 2014....wok

Doqo
SA, 29 posts
31 Dec 2013 11:16PM
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Thanks for all the input folks. Much appreciated.

A couple of questions, if anyone has the answers.

1) The windsurfer mast and sail I've acquired are obviously designed to fit onto the black plastic swivel mast step thingy they (windsurfers) all have. The problem I'm anticipating (and why I made that wooden adaptor) is that there is only about 150mm of mast that extends out of the bottom of the sail's mast sleeve. If I were to try and mount this straight into a tube mast step, the sail would basically touch the top of the mast step tube and only have that small amount of mast (150mm) in the step. I'm convinced that ain't right. This would surely result in (a) the foot of the sail whipping around damn close over my nut and (b) probably snap the mast at about the 150mm mark. Am I going to have to modify one of the sails to accommodate a deeper seating of the mast in the step ?

2) As the mast is free-standing, I had assumed ( yes, me too, lol ) that the "fit" into the step tube should be fairly snug. However, I have seen pics which lead me to believe this is not necessarily the correct assumption.

Thanks in advance.

BenBoulder
WA, 261 posts
31 Dec 2013 9:15PM
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hey Chook order some of those adapter bushes today should be Kal. in 6-7 Days.

sn
WA, 2775 posts
31 Dec 2013 10:10PM
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Hi Doqo,

Funnily enough, Chook and myself were recently discussing a combined mast stiffener and extender!

Normal practice is to strengthen the mast by stuffing either a piece of close fitting timber, a section of broken mast or aluminium tube into the mast base.

To lengthen the mast, we often "borrow" a section of vacuum cleaner pipe from the family vacuum and bung it on the top of the mast.
This usually gains 300mm or so [depending on brand].
Only problem to be aware of is the noise generated.
[You will need earplugs if the missus find her vac. is now only suitable for midgets]

It isnt clear in the drawings- but the mast step leans back by 10 degrees, and it will need flaring to prevent the mast chafing.

The mast needs to be able to move- but the excess "slop" of my masts in the step is taken up by a piece of pvc SWV pipe with about 15mm taken out down its full length, this missing section also fits nicely over the welded seam that runs inside the length of the mast step preventing wear to the mast.

I will try and put a pic up of the step of one of my mini's, and a diagram of a "wrap around" pattern that gives a pretty close cutting line so your 61mm tube gets the 10 degree lean [just need to find where my computer has hidden the pics.]

All the best,

stephen [found them!]



sn
WA, 2775 posts
31 Dec 2013 10:24PM
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Template drawing came out a bit bigger than I anticipated- print it out to the scale shown and it wraps around standard 61mm O.D. tube.

In the pic. of the mast step with the pvc SWV pipe installed, you can just see a bit of the lengthwise cut that straddles the welded seam of the tube.

stephen

Chook2
WA, 1244 posts
1 Jan 2014 10:20AM
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Select to expand quote
here it is!

stephen



.
.
Small world eh??

I have trouble with the joiners in my "converted" one piece masts bending (They have a lot stress 1/2 way up the mast)

The joiner is 4.8mm aluminium machined to the correct taper, which usually ends up about a 3mm wall thickness at the top of the base section joiner.

These were bending, so I fitted a hard wood insert, I turned up on the lathe and glued into the full 400mm (200mm in/out as the joiner) and this has still bent on a 5350mm IMCS 29 mast. The proper carbon joiners must be VERY solid.

The stress on the bottom of the mast will be even greater, so I would be hesitant to extend it here.

I like the vacuum cleaner solution much more.

I have machined up timber extensions for the tip, if they are sticking out less than 200mm and the mast tip is still greater than 35mm, otherwise a tube extension is needed, as the mast stands a chance of splitting from the localised internal pressure combined with a reduced diameter of the mast tip. Particularly in the event of an upset.

The feather banners you see for advertising have a 6 piece telescopic carbon mast inside them, with a "smorgas board" of sizes, just for this job.
I found 3 broken ones thrown out behind our local art centre, while waiting for my wife.

Don't forget the 25mm x 3mm Flat bar, mast strap, as there are some huge stresses applied to the mast step. don't weld it all the way round though.
This is "Landyachts" solution and has worked to date. This is a pic of my yacht #1, "Code Red"




Doqo
SA, 29 posts
1 Jan 2014 3:58PM
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Thanks Stephen & Chook

I had a good chuckle about the vacuum tube & the earplugs. Lol.

I had actually figured it out on the way back from dropping the 16 year old Galactic Centre at Hungry Jacks, where she's picking up double time today. (The entire Universe revolves around her - fondly referred to as GC.)

I think I'll swing past our local steel shop tomorrow & pick up some light steel tube (approx. 600mm should do) that will only just fit inside the top of the mast. If I split say 200 mm of the "inside end" and install a wooden taper plug the same as the mast taper inside the steel tube, I can drill a 100 mm deep blind hole & epoxy in an M8 nut onto the end of the wooden taper and with a bit of threaded rod & a fender washer , can expand the tube to grip inside the mast. Then a rubber door stopper over the end of the steel tube to protect the sail. Probably over-engineering/bodging, but it should be solid, without posing too much risk to the mast in the event of a flip over. I'll make a spare just in case.

The LL Mini is starting to come together. Boy, am I a lousy welder...... Thank goodness for bog. I've got the steering column mounted and the main rear T square tube welded on. Next will be the rear wheel axles and tubes, but I'll hold off until tomorrow. I'm meeting up with one of the forum local lads to have a look at some pro wheels and a seat he's got knocking about in his shed that are superfluous to his immediate requirements.

Will post pics once bog is sanded.

Doqo
SA, 29 posts
1 Jan 2014 4:45PM
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I realise the M8 holes are on the wrong plane. I'll see what clearance I've got once I've acquired/made a seat and if there's enough room, will weld on a couple of M8 nuts.If not, I'll drill two more and weld up the other two.











Ahem....the double skin tube in the steering column is as a result of over enthusiastic welding of the original outer tube with the 25mm square tube used for alignment inside it. Duh !

16mm BMS fits nicely, so I'll have to use that for the steering column.

Hiko
1229 posts
2 Jan 2014 7:35PM
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Doqo
There is a tricky bit of geometry at the front of the chassis at the lower part of the steering tube
It gets very crowded there when you try get the line of the steering shaft in line with the centre of the footprint on the ground Some crank the chassis upward and some like myself cut it off short along with a bit of the chassis
Forewarned is forearmed as they say and may save you a bit of time and make it easier
Just my 10 cents worth

Test pilot 1
WA, 1430 posts
3 Jan 2014 12:45PM
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Also weld a cap on the rear tube to prevent the pipe splitting. Constant flexing from the axles tends to weaken the weld and fracture the pipe(Iknow from experience). Also stops the tube filling with dirt moisture etc.

Doqo
SA, 29 posts
4 Jan 2014 8:12AM
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Thanks Hiko & Test Pilot. Noted.

Didn't get anything done on the mini yesterday. Went fishing with some mates at Second Valley. Total washout. Our least experienced team member took a banana along for breakfast.....

Heading out to the shed now. Picked up a seat and ordered some spun aluminium hubs on Thursday from one of the Adelaide Land Yacht Club fellas. Am going to hang onto the dodgy Bunnings wheels until the aluminium hubs arrive, so I can continue the build. Might just keep them anyway for emergency spares/testing.

Doqo
SA, 29 posts
4 Jan 2014 8:40PM
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Got a bit more done today. Did I mention I'm a really bad welder ? This project is costing me a fortune in flap discs. lol.

Found a bit of aluminium tube almost the same size as the top of the mast. Had some 25mm ally round bar and made up a joiner. Topped it off with the unused foot rubber from the box of "useful things".







Went down to Bunnings again & bought a fence post which is almost a perfect fit for the mast. Flared it on my newly acquired mini anvil.




Thanks Stephen for the mast step cutting template. You saved me a huge amount of time. Slight difference, but I adjusted the size a bit.








Doqo
SA, 29 posts
4 Jan 2014 8:54PM
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Had to do a Heath Robinson alignment device for the positioning of the mast step. Didn't want a lop-sided ride.







Welded on the mast step with support strap, angle support and ring. Notice welding quality......





Then did the angle struts and closed off the back of the main tube.







Mounted the mast & sail just to see what the rake looks like. I think it might be too much.





Finished off the day by cutting the pieces I need for tomorrow. I want to start early and the neighbours get touchy if I cut at 07h00 on a Sunday morning. Only material I don't have is the 20mm round for the front axle. I'll swing past Green Steel 08h00 on Monday. Time for a shower.





cisco
QLD, 12311 posts
4 Jan 2014 11:45PM
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You seem to have it all well in hand there Doqo.

Those little inverter welding machines are the duck's nuts for building land yachts with thin walled material. Choice of welding rod can have a big influence on the quality of your end result.

I only ever buy my rods from a dedicated welding supplies shop such as BOC Gas and Gear and I always question the sales person about what is the best for the job I want to do.

Most of the blokes are trade qualified welders but when I get a shiela at the counter and ask a technical question, they usually recognise that I need to speak with a bloke.

Welding technique can be a bit of an art form. It is a tad like painting as the metal is flowing off the electrode in a molten state and you need to know what is happening in the molten pool of metal. Lengthening the arc will increase the heat and increase the risk of blowing holes in the parent material and shortening the arc will risk stalling or the flux overtaking the pool resulting in slag inclusions.

Further, moving the arc around in a side to side or figure 8 motion can be effective in achieving a strong and slag free weld.

It has been proven that welders suffering from DTs (delirium tremens), a result of excessive alcohol consumption, which then results in shaky hands in the morning are some of the best welders in the world.

landyacht
WA, 5921 posts
4 Jan 2014 9:57PM
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just stick with satincraft rods. 2.5mm will be perfect.
yacht looking great mast step looks spot on, welding seems to be improving as you get the hang of the 2mm stuff . great effort. If you have no 20mm solid 20mm bolts will work fine, or even mild steel bar.
when we experimenting with front ends we slowly got thicker and thicker. and found 16mm/ 5/8 would eventually bend/snap,25 was simply too heavy /overkill, and 20 was just right,and seemed to have the bigger range of source materials..If you are really weight concious you could drill it out on a lathe but I wouldnt bother

Doqo
SA, 29 posts
8 Jan 2014 8:04AM
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Almost there. Just got the boom & blocks to sort out and then I can paint her. I got the Fallshaw wheels on Monday, but haven't got them fitted on the back yet.





aus230
WA, 1659 posts
8 Jan 2014 10:49AM
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That is a real nice build, Great job and thanks for sharing.
Cheers
aus230

Doqo
SA, 29 posts
8 Jan 2014 1:53PM
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Thanks aus230. Having seen your work, I'll take the compliment.

Of course, the real "pudding proof" is in the sailing. Hopefully I'll be up at Port Gawler on Saturday.

sabydent
360 posts
8 Jan 2014 12:46PM
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Nice. I love looking at these project

aus715
VIC, 58 posts
9 Jan 2014 10:25PM
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Great work Doqo!
Where did you get the seat?
Looking to get my build going soon.
Been way too long since I said I was going to.
Now I am serious.
The Somers Spit awaits!

Doqo
SA, 29 posts
9 Jan 2014 10:34PM
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Thanks aus715. Got in touch with a fella not too far down the road who had a spare one. Not sure where he got it from. Either interstate (??) or out of the states. I'll be seeing him Sunday & will ask.

Had a look at Somers. I guess the spit is the beach running sorta Eastish along the south side of HMAS Cerberus. Looks noice.

aus715
VIC, 58 posts
10 Jan 2014 8:34PM
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That would be Sandy Point. A fair hike to get to and really rugged and remote with lots off embedded trees.
The spit is actually a bit West of the Yacht Club, (where I sail) and at low tide it is a 200m x 300m delta at the creek outflow.
The Blokart guys used to use it a few years back, on the curved beach to Balnarring, on a stiff Southerly. Rather rapid.
Just got to watch out for the horses....
Can you post a pic with your yacht rigged up?

Doqo
SA, 29 posts
12 Jan 2014 8:23AM
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With every intention of spending " a couple of hours " finishing off the LL Mini yesterday, I finally cleaned up at 22h00 after some 13 and a half hours in the shed. Man, those wheels/bearings/bushes are tricky to fit...

Ran out of time, so the frame got a "Council Zinc Galv" grey paint job and the seat a laborious sanding to get rid of the sticky tape that had thermonuclearly sublimated itself into the molecular structure of the fibreglass. What a pain. Never stick tape to a tupperware seat.

A few pics of the progress.

I had a pair of boots with soles like these pedals.





Next two pics show seat and seat belt mounts.









Wheels fitted. She rolls "verrrry naice".





With the windsurfer sail and my home-made Tassie Oak boom.



Had to make another Heath Robinson adaptor to fit the rowlock to the boom (38mm diameter)





Seat, seat belt and brake fitted.



Well, I'm off now to go sailing. Wish me luck. Hardly a breath of wind. Will post pics if I remember to take some.

Later.










lachlan3556
VIC, 1066 posts
12 Jan 2014 11:32AM
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Good luck with the test

Thanks for documenting your build process for us

Chook2
WA, 1244 posts
12 Jan 2014 4:05PM
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What a ripper!!!!

Well done. The seat looks good too.
I think this seems to be the main stumbling block for most builds. Creature comfort is important, even more for us old blokes.

What was the hassle with the wheels?



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"Doqo's first attempt..." started by Doqo