Forums > Land Yacht Sailing Construction

Hello and advice needed for a UK Builder

Reply
Created by Shipjack > 9 months ago, 28 Apr 2014
Shipjack
19 posts
28 Apr 2014 10:17PM
Thumbs Up

Hi there,

I'm Lesley, live in land locked Nottingham UK, absolutely no experience of welding and approximately 15 mins experience of land yachting. I've therefore been voted 'person least likely to build a land yacht' in a recent poll (ok that bit is n't true) but nonetheless here I am.
On the other hand I'm handy enough (for a lady office -worker) and that 15 minutes experience was enough to get me hooked. However, living where I do I can't justify spending the money to buy one and making one looks like a lot of fun...and this forum seems a great source of experience and expertise (better get that in!)
So far I have plenty of wood, 2 windsurfing sails (and a boom although I do n't intend to use it as is) and a two piece mast. I've also procured an arc welder and some rods..although at this particular moment in time I have 'all the gear and no idea'.
My intention was pretty much to follow the plans for a lake lefroy mini on this website..seems sensible. However, I'm also mulling over the idea for going for a shorter version with the direct steering bar behind the wheel (like a 'potty'..the land yacht I had a go on). First question..Why do most land yachts have a single armed fork on front wheel?..I'm thinking about using a kids bike for the front fork and steerer and can't see the point in chopping an arm off.
Second question for now..I've read a lot about the importance of getting some decent wheels..anyone in the UK able to recommend? There is a confusing plethora of wheelbarrow wheels available on ebay and I'm not sure how you tell a good un from a bad un..

Thats all for now folks..will keep reading the forum for more tips!

Shipjack

Shipjack
19 posts
28 Apr 2014 10:20PM
Thumbs Up

P.S. do n't worry too much about my lack of experience with an arc welder..I shall do a course before 'setting to' :)

Bynorthsea
104 posts
29 Apr 2014 3:24AM
Thumbs Up

Hi your best way forward is to look at some yachts and talk to the builders , get yourself up to a sailing day at the York club or go to the regatta this Sunday, Monday. if you need wheels the guy to contact is Dave Green, he builds, races and supplies parts, get the contact details from the York site.

sn
WA, 2775 posts
29 Apr 2014 2:27PM
Thumbs Up

If you are going to use pushbike forks, be aware they are a bit weak and have been known to distort.

The single sided "fork" on the lake Lefroy mini's is a simple and very strong design that is easy to build.
Making it a regular "double sided fork" is just adding un-needed weight and complexity.

light and simple is the way to go!

As an alternative, you can build "weld free",
I have been tempted to try this one myself.

www.stevproj.com/


stephen

Shipjack
19 posts
29 Apr 2014 7:00PM
Thumbs Up

Thanks guys,

Did wonder about the strength of bike forks..might have to think that through a bit more. It definately seems like the front end is the tricky bit but but reading up last night I know fully understand the importance of your angles being right at the front, so it seems a bike fork would need a lot of messing with anyway..I'll therefore probably scrub that idea..although still keen on the simple rod behind the wheel steering.
Can someone just advise on these wheels?..bit more than bog standard wheelbarrow wheels but possibly worth it?

www.allterraintyres.co.uk/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=1093_1319

Looking at the ?26 ones..

cheers!

Shipjack

sn
WA, 2775 posts
29 Apr 2014 10:27PM
Thumbs Up

In Australia, we have found that a locally manufactured "Fallshaw" plastic [nylon?] 8" x 4" wheelbarrow wheel is perfect for what we do - even though we push them way past the manufacturers intended speeds and loadings.

If you can find a wheel similar to our Fallshaw, that can be fitted with sealed bearings you should be ok.
Some landyachters use the cheap standard pressed wheelbarrow bearings - and treat them as disposables, just giving them a regular shot of oil, WD40 or similar until they need replacing.

Keep clear of pressed steel or 2 piece wheels - they will not last.


edit:

the 3rd one down, [26.60 quid] 8" x 4" wheel + ribbed tread tyre + 20mm bearings looks good, might pay to put a spacer between the bearings to prevent any "crush" from side loading during cornering, but this might not be necessary depending on how the wheel is constructed.


stephen

sn
WA, 2775 posts
29 Apr 2014 10:57PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Shipjack said..

However, I'm also mulling over the idea for going for a shorter version with the direct steering bar behind the wheel (like a 'potty'..the land yacht I had a go on).


Hi again Lesley,

It might be a good idea to stick close to the Lefroy mini plans for your first build, and keep your souped up version for build no.2.

Making the yacht shorter will make it twitchier.

There are a few improvements from the initial design that have been developed, but are hidden away throughout the website.

-a strengthening strap that runs from one side of the mast step [support tube] wrapping underneath the chassis spine and back up the other side of the mast step with short "stitches" of weld to secure it [not one long continuous weld]
This prevents the mast step eventually tearing out of the spine from metal fatigue, mind you - you will have to sail hard-n-fast for an awfully long time to build up that sort of stress.


-The rear of the chassis spine gets sealed with a welded plate to stop eventual stress tearing the chassis spine.

-The braces running from the chassis spine to the rear axles can be 1 1/4" x 1/4" flat bar instead of round bar,
then you can also use this flat bar to bolt your seat and seat belt to - instead of separate short brackets.

-The angled brace that runs from the chassis spine up to the mast step can be made out of the same flat bar, and a series of holes drilled to fit the shackles that you use for your downhaul and sheet-rope.

-Recently, some of the crew have been moving the mast step further forward and a little more upright so bigger sails can be used, which seems to work well.

-Instead of bolting the rear axle extensions into the rear of the frame - you can use spring loaded clips, which can be salvaged from scrapped adjustable windsurfing booms.
This makes pulling out the rear axles a 2 second job and much easier for storage and transport.


Whereabouts are you going to be sailing, vacant airstrip, beaches, car parks?
How are you going to transport it -trailer, van or station wagon?


stephen

Shipjack
19 posts
30 Apr 2014 3:34AM
Thumbs Up

Thanks Stephen,

Some really useful tips there, appreciate it. I've developed an obsession for looking for useful looking bits of steel, seen a couple of bits lying around at work ..might have to see who I can charm!
I'm going to be sailing on the beach I should think..probably Norfolk, Lincolnshire Coast but also over to Wales on the odd weekend. As such I need my yauct to be compact..I have a van, but ideally I'd want something I can fit into the car..albeit with the seats down. Really not likely to be worrying too much about speed..just fun, comfort, manoevreability..
It's all about the experience of building it though to be honest..I could have got a Yorker wind bob off ebay for ?350 yesterday..probably would have been the sensible choice if it was only about the finished product

Lesley

Shipjack
19 posts
7 May 2014 5:35PM
Thumbs Up

Hi there,

The bits and bobs are being gathered..just need most of the tubing now and I can get started!..First cut planned for Sunday. Just one question. How important is seamless tubing for the main spine? Found a nice bit of scaffolding pipe, but not seamless. Obviously realise seamless has a higher tensile strength but will the strain the main spine is put under to anywhere near high enough to cause a problem?

thanks!

Lesley

Gizmo
SA, 2865 posts
7 May 2014 7:32PM
Thumbs Up

Seamless tubing is used on Class5 yachts...
Mini5.6 yachts don't need seamless tube for the main spine.

landyacht
WA, 5921 posts
7 May 2014 7:37PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Gizmo said..
Seamless tubing is used on Class5 yachts...

Mini5.6 yachts don't need seamless tube for the main spine.


gizmo is right, weve built plenty of minis with Galv fence/sign posts. 1.6mm wall is ideal. try and get around 60mm OD and that will take your mast as well. regards the front fork, if you are using a bike wheel./axle you are going to need a double sided fork. our single sided forks have axles of 16mm or greater

Shipjack
19 posts
7 May 2014 7:57PM
Thumbs Up

Great,

Thanks lads. Changed my mind about the bike fork..sticking to the standard single sided fork as per the plans. Managed to get some nice looking wheelbarrow wheels which look like they'll do the job and have a 21mm axle. Also thought I'd got a bargain off ebay last night..really handy looking go kart seat for 5quid..sadly not designed for sturdy posteriors however :(. Will have to make the seat I think.

Shipjack
19 posts
9 May 2014 7:44PM
Thumbs Up

Hi Guys,

Just one more quick question before I shut up and JFDI,

Stephen said

"-Recently, some of the crew have been moving the mast step further forward and a little more upright so bigger sails can be used, which seems to work well"

Also read somewhere else about a LLF built to plan lifting a bit at the front. Bearing in mind I'm probably slightly lighter than an 'average' land yachter (although not hugely), should I be thinking about setting the mast a wee bit further forward than the plan shows?..If so any thought on how much?

cheers!

Shipjack

sn
WA, 2775 posts
9 May 2014 8:25PM
Thumbs Up

If you are not handicapped by self contained ballast like several of our crew, you could happily stick to the plans.

Some of our mob either NEED bigger sails to get rolling, or have so much built in ballast - they can run oversized sails without much risk of capsizing

However - in light wind, or on a high drag surface, extra sailcloth can be handy.

If you move the mast step forward, you might need to fiddle with the steering pedal set-up.
Sling "Chook" a message, and he might be able to send you some pics and dimensions of what he has done.


stephen

Shipjack
19 posts
12 May 2014 4:35AM
Thumbs Up





It's started! The welds do n't bear up to close scrutiny but I can only assume I'll get better at it as the project progresses!




sn
WA, 2775 posts
12 May 2014 3:38PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Shipjack said..

It's started! The welds don't bear up to close scrutiny but I can only assume I'll get better at it as the project progresses!



Pretty good so far!

Your welds look better than mine

stephen

landyacht
WA, 5921 posts
12 May 2014 7:15PM
Thumbs Up

Lincolnshire beaches!!!!, I still remember as a tacker going to cleethorpes and couldnt even see the sea from on top of the pier!!!

jskdog
58 posts
13 May 2014 5:38AM
Thumbs Up

I took my new land yacht to Cleethorpes, but further down near Humberston yacht club. Awsome place and luckily only 20 miles away from me

IPKSA
177 posts
14 May 2014 1:38AM
Thumbs Up

Great to see these new Miniyacht builds, well done folks. You should join the British Landsailing Facebook page of information and to meet up with others, also lots of info available on the International Miniyacht (5.60) Class Association Facebook page too.

Keep building and posting.

Cheers

Alan
www.iPKSA.com

Shipjack
19 posts
16 May 2014 2:27AM
Thumbs Up

it's starting to look like something that moves! Any tips for flaring the mast holder without an anvil? Might end up just smoothing off the inside edge of the pipe?





Test pilot 1
WA, 1430 posts
16 May 2014 7:06AM
Thumbs Up

Depending on the diameter of mast step(holder), an old tow ball or solid bar in a vice could work hit with ball of ballpein hammer

TeamWally
VIC, 47 posts
16 May 2014 10:07AM
Thumbs Up

SJ, an anvil can be anything that does the job, from a rock to a 5 cwt blacksmiths anvil! Anything that is reasonably solid, fits inside the your tubing and allows you to tilt the tube enough to form the lip with your hammer is good enough. Just keep rotating the tube around and work the lip as you go.

Mick

KAONAONA
230 posts
16 May 2014 2:04PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
TeamWally said...
SJ, an anvil can be anything that does the job, from a rock to a 5 cwt blacksmiths anvil! Anything that is reasonably solid, fits inside the your tubing and allows you to tilt the tube enough to form the lip with your hammer is good enough. Just keep rotating the tube around and work the lip as you go.

Mick


Here is a picture from another post of a kid working the flare into the mast step tube. Check out how he is using some clamps and some pipe for an anvil. I figured a pic might help.






Shipjack
19 posts
19 May 2014 6:57PM
Thumbs Up

Thanks,

Mast tube now duly flared, attached and a few more bits done. The angle of the photo looks like the mast holder is worringly far back, but my overall yacht lenght is 5cm shorter than plan. I'd love to claim this was an experiment based on some sort of enquiring mind, but I messed the rear weld up so badly I was left with no choice but to chop the whole thing off and try again..So I've kept the proportionate position of the mast about the same as plan but went for a 5 degree tilt rather than 10.
I've used an old head tube and steerer from a bike, to make use of the crown race rather than faff about trying to find square bushings with circular holes. The steer tube is too short however, so I'll slip some 20mm tube inside the short steerer (and attach) to attach the steering to.
The plan suggests I just weld the bottom of the steerer to the top of the fork. Bearing in mind I'm an amateur welder..will this be strong enough? I'm wondering whether to sink the tube into the top bar of the fork?









cheers!

Lesley


Shipjack
19 posts
2 Jun 2014 1:39AM
Thumbs Up

Well, just about finished. All that remains is bolting the seat on, cool paint job and name, row lock on end of boom and seat belt and we're done! Thanks for your help and advice and particular thanks to landyacht for the plans which I more or less followed. Only slight changes were shifting the mast forward a bit (second time around..ta chook!), 5 degree rake and overall length 50 mm shorter (not on purpose!). It's been a heap of fun to build and considering I did nt know one end of a welder from the other , not had I ever used an angle grinder, I'm pretty chuffed.








Shipjack
19 posts
2 Jun 2014 1:43AM
Thumbs Up

Ha! Can't work out why that's sideways on..I built it the right way up' I'm sure!

Test pilot 1
WA, 1430 posts
2 Jun 2014 1:06PM
Thumbs Up

You probably live on the side of a hill

Chook2
WA, 1244 posts
2 Jun 2014 1:26PM
Thumbs Up




There ya go, I stood the mast up a bit more.........

What a fantastic job you have done!!!! It's made my day.

Great stuff with the welding, these are the sort of projects to get it all happening.

Keep us updated with how she sails.

Hiko
1229 posts
3 Jun 2014 6:16PM
Thumbs Up

Woo hoo !!!!
Looks great
Looking forward to a sailing report

Test pilot 1
WA, 1430 posts
3 Jun 2014 7:12PM
Thumbs Up

Like:- how fast you went, how scared you made yourself going how fast you went, how much of an adrenalin rush it is when you scared yourself, how many times you lifted a wheel, how many times you lost control and tipped it over.....
You know, fun stuff like that

Test pilot 1
WA, 1430 posts
3 Jun 2014 7:13PM
Thumbs Up

And of course pictures showing all of the above



Subscribe
Reply

Forums > Land Yacht Sailing Construction


"Hello and advice needed for a UK Builder" started by Shipjack