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All Forums > Land Yacht Sailing > Construction > These look wheely good....is there a problem?
Author These look wheely good....is there a problem?
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WA
1094 Posts
Posted 23/04/2012, 12:35 am        Report Show Profile
have blow tires and sailed the whole length of the course,sailing on the rim with no damage to the wheel. maybe we have hit on something using the bike rims The Kojak tires where excellent on the wide rims today. I reduced the air pressure to 40lbs. They gave me the best traction that I have had on my yacht so far and rhe ride was excellent. The tires showed little signs of wear. I am real happy with them Cheers aus230
WA
4715 Posts
Posted 23/04/2012, 8:33 pm        Report Show Profile
Hang off for a wek on the rim col. If my 50mm flat rim works you could actually use some strips of ally and a few rivets to hold the rims together then glass into the wheel? hmm no tigging ive layed up my first disc, its flat!!!!! soooo flat you could even play it like a wobble board, so its going to be an interesting experience. tonight i found a peice of galvanized flashing to use as the mold for the ribs. I trimmed off the bigger side, then clamped it between some 50mm angle and a bit of square, then simplybent it with a block of wood and a hammer.then it was simply a matter of sanding and waxing ready to use. I was all ready to mix resin when I was called to dinner duties
WA
4715 Posts
Posted 26/04/2012, 11:32 pm        Report Show Profile
I finally got in the shed and got stuck in to the second disc yesterday, I layed up the disc, added the rim glassed in the rim ,glued in the ribs and glued on the first disc all in one operation. it took 30minutes of my life all being flat and parallel it just seemed easier, this time i used cotton flock as the material to thicken the resin for glueing, rather than cabosil. according to the data i found online the flock has better glueing properties than the cabosil, we shall see the flock was a pleasure to workwith as it didnt want to blow around , mixed easily, and was easier to spread in glueing mode when i started clamping I realized my mistake in that i should have cut a big ply disc to get better clamping in the midspoke area,something to remember for the next wheel fortunately I had just enough bigger clamps the finished wheel was soooooo flat ,it was difficult to photograph but the finishe dwheel is looking great, and 3.00kg on the dot!!!!!
WA
523 Posts
Posted 27/04/2012, 7:29 pm        Report Show Profile
So is the dish in the larger wheels just to get more distance=less leverage between the bearings Paul.
United Kingdom
312 Posts
Posted 28/04/2012, 3:02 am        Report Show Profile
Looking very good Paul If these work out you've just saved me the bother of plastering up a wheel for a mould - bit of gloss faced melamine board and the jobs a good 'un Bit of a centre bolted to the board and the factory can start! Cheers Col (Loving it when a plan comes together).
TAS
1950 Posts
Posted 28/04/2012, 6:51 am        Report Show Profile
Yep! Paul, I will be interested in how these go.. The flatening of the dish to a disc , I think, will allow greater pressures on the disc and may require a little beefing up to alow for the side ways torque and distortion that the dish allowed for.. Interesting. Ron
United Kingdom
312 Posts
Posted 28/04/2012, 6:44 pm        Report Show Profile
Nikrum said...
Yep! Paul, I will be interested in how these go.. The flatening of the dish to a disc , I think, will allow greater pressures on the disc and may require a little beefing up to alow for the side ways torque and distortion that the dish allowed for.. Interesting. Ron
I've been trying to get my head round the tension and compression forces on the faces of the wheel but I'm guessing that the internal spokes holding the two faces together will resolve the forces inside. I'm always too skint to risk testing stuff or I'd be out there finding out. I'd be looking at £160-200 to get to a complete pair of wheels even using this method so over to our designated expert (thanks Paul). Cheers Col
WA
1094 Posts
Posted 28/04/2012, 8:10 pm        Report Show Profile
Why would it cost so much, mine have cost me about $60 each to make.add tires $30 each. Must be some u/s push bikes around for wheels. I don't think you will have any problems if you follow mine or Paul's guidelines. They turn out very strong. Cheers Vic
TAS
1950 Posts
Posted 28/04/2012, 9:43 pm        Report Show Profile
OK! Vic, you are one of the gurus so will parallel wheel discs have an undesired effect on the wheel under great side pressure?? Ron
64 Posts
Posted 28/04/2012, 9:55 pm        Report Show Profile
You may have to beef the hub area up a bit compared to dished ones & put more ribs in, but it should hang together. I reckon it's one of those suck it & see numbers....
WA
1094 Posts
Posted 28/04/2012, 10:19 pm        Report Show Profile
I think the same Bill, I hope it works as it will make the construction easier. Cheers Vic
WA
4715 Posts
Posted 29/04/2012, 8:45 pm        Report Show Profile
throw away the plaster, the domes and cones boys, the next generation of cheap wheels for the masses have arrived!!!!!! I figured if I was going to reduce a wheel to splinters this would be the one but it just didnt happen. they needed an axle that is 50mm shorter= less leverage by the wheel on the axle, the habit of the wider wheels to dig into the axle shaft and jam didnt happen, they just ran smooth and true. the weekend started with stopping to follow a lovely 1m dugite through the bush just to admire the way it moved, then we rigged up on the lake next to the clubs resident kitebuggiers. I was testing the skinny32mm rim as well. it was a dog to sail, and would lose grip easily, presumably from the tyre rolling sideways. the flat 50 however perfomed to perfection. that night we were treated to a first at the clubhouse, a lovely little scorpion, hanging around our feet, it didnt last long as after I killed it a mouse appeared out of a steelpost and carried it away for dinner, as well as all the chippy crumbs, and the remains of a corn cob that we offered as a blessing to the wind gods. little Zepyhr is sleeping full tonight on sunday we had much better wind so I set up with the flat 50 and a "traditional 50" much better traction. i was also running a homemade16 on the front with a hookworm tyre( cost more than the wheel) once the wind hit 20knts the wheels got a proper test, with the salt slightly damp and slushy at just over 85kph the yacht would hit a nice bouncy side drift with all wheels drifting together. short of being hit side on by a club88 with old ron at the helm i dont think they could have got a better test. these are the easiest, toughest lightst wheels Ive put together so far , so i plan to put away the othet molds and just use my sheet of ply from now on. the little steel mold i made from sheet metal could more accurately be made with some strips of timber and sanding sealing waxing . all up cost of the wheel with salvaged rims was $25 for resin and glass,1/2hr to make mold,2hrs construction time.the tyre used in the test were the tip tyres (26x1.95) knobblies that were on the rim when i salvaged the bike we finished the weekend with a flock of 15 fully grown emus cruising through the bush , Then spotted a little water hole full of tadpoles!!!!! 20 taddies in our pond tonight
WA
1094 Posts
Posted 29/04/2012, 11:03 pm        Report Show Profile
Great outcome Paul, We should see a few more yachts with 26" around now. I can not see anyway to make them simpler that that. Cheers Vic
United Kingdom
312 Posts
Posted 30/04/2012, 3:01 am        Report Show Profile
aus230 said...
Why would it cost so much, mine have cost me about $60 each to make.add tires $30 each. Must be some u/s push bikes around for wheels. I don't think you will have any problems if you follow mine or Paul's guidelines. They turn out very strong. Cheers Vic
Prices in the UK for stuff is high ("Rip off Britain"), so things are kept till useless - the last wheels I saw at the tip were buckled and anything useable is rare. Scaffold is galvanised steel so you can only get new ally scaffold at £25/3m (+del). Its cheaper for me to buy in the US and pay shipping and tax/fees on large items - tube notcher in the US £28 + £29 shipping + 20% tax + £7 handling - cheapest in the UK for the same item £114+delivery! I used to climb in France and set off with no gear, buy it in France to bring back - saving about 50-60% min. I can't tig, and I can't get steel wheels anymore so I'd have to pay someone to Tig the rims together at £45-60/hour 2 wheels - rims 32mm x 2+£38 (36mm x 2 £50 2nd hand), tyres the cheapest i can see are Kenda Kiniptions x 2 = £32, bearings x 4 = £7, hub tube = £5, spindle tube = £5, spindle bolts/nutsx2 = £13, CSM 450g in 2 layers per side = £13.80, resign and catalyst = £25, bits'n'bobs/mould board/etc = £10....so £150($230 AUS) I need to get it right first time Cheers Col
64 Posts
Posted 30/04/2012, 7:52 am        Report Show Profile
Fantastic job again Paul, And Vic for cracking these construction methods I think this will open up these types of 5 for anyone to have a go at. Who knows, may be enough to lift up C5 in Europe if anyone can make their own wheels. After all, was the biggest hurdle a few years ago. Now where did I see that bit of board......
64 Posts
Posted 30/04/2012, 7:55 am        Report Show Profile
Col, Don't be afraid to have a go with any old junk you can lay your hands on. Doesn't have to be ideal - take a leaf out of Pauls book......... Go for it!
TAS
1950 Posts
Posted 30/04/2012, 7:57 am        Report Show Profile
Paul, I think you should keep your machine under Lock and Key as well as security guards cos if you don't you will likely find it one morning stripped>> Ron
WA
4715 Posts
Posted 30/04/2012, 6:34 pm        Report Show Profile
colk2004 said...
aus230 said...
Why would it cost so much, mine have cost me about $60 each to make.add tires $30 each. Must be some u/s push bikes around for wheels. I don't think you will have any problems if you follow mine or Paul's guidelines. They turn out very strong. Cheers Vic
Prices in the UK for stuff is high ("Rip off Britain"), so things are kept till useless - the last wheels I saw at the tip were buckled and anything useable is rare. Scaffold is galvanised steel so you can only get new ally scaffold at £25/3m (+del). Its cheaper for me to buy in the US and pay shipping and tax/fees on large items - tube notcher in the US £28 + £29 shipping + 20% tax + £7 handling - cheapest in the UK for the same item £114+delivery! I used to climb in France and set off with no gear, buy it in France to bring back - saving about 50-60% min. I can't tig, and I can't get steel wheels anymore so I'd have to pay someone to Tig the rims together at £45-60/hour 2 wheels - rims 32mm x 2+£38 (36mm x 2 £50 2nd hand), tyres the cheapest i can see are Kenda Kiniptions x 2 = £32, bearings x 4 = £7, hub tube = £5, spindle tube = £5, spindle bolts/nutsx2 = £13, CSM 450g in 2 layers per side = £13.80, resign and catalyst = £25, bits'n'bobs/mould board/etc = £10....so £150($230 AUS) I need to get it right first time Cheers Col
see what price for simple 25mm T6061 rims at chainreaction cycles. you would need 4 rims. you could rough up 1 side on each with a grinder then glue with araldite, the use some strips of ally recycled from say window flashing. these could be riveted on the inside to really hold the rim together. no tigging have a look around for a factory that makes kitchen benches and scrounge some chipboard,melamine that way. the stuff I used was throw away scraps from concrete formwork. the nylon bush for the bearing centre could be be specially imported if you had already the rest of the materials sitting in a pile ready to go come to think of it a cheap 26" chinese bike is only $150
WA
4715 Posts
Posted 30/04/2012, 8:14 pm        Report Show Profile
col, chain reaction cycles are currently clearing a MAVICXM117 rim for $17 aus, 2 per wheel. riveted and glued we pay $25 for cheap rims. chain reaction ship out of northern ireland
United Kingdom
312 Posts
Posted 30/04/2012, 8:55 pm        Report Show Profile
landyacht said...
col, chain reaction cycles are currently clearing a MAVICXM117 rim for $17 aus, 2 per wheel. riveted and glued we pay $25 for cheap rims. chain reaction ship out of northern ireland
Genius! Why didn't I think of that Rims are covered in holes for riveting. Glue, rivet, then glass together. I am, as they say, on it! Thanks Col
United Kingdom
312 Posts
Posted 30/04/2012, 9:22 pm        Report Show Profile
Re-calibrated brain and found this little item. I can mig these and have a few practices as I can get the in-laws to collect. Should these be ok!? http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WHOLESALE-JOB-LINE-MTB-WHEEL-RIMS-26-CHROME-FACTORY-PACK-12-NEW-OLD-STOCK-/180855474226?pt=UK_sportsleisure_cycling_bikeparts_SR&hash=item2a1bd38832 Cheers Col
WA
1094 Posts
Posted 30/04/2012, 9:46 pm        Report Show Profile
Grab them they are just want you need.
United Kingdom
312 Posts
Posted 01/05/2012, 3:47 am        Report Show Profile
aus230 said...
Grab them they are just want you need.
Done. That's knocked a lump off the bill and I can cock up a few times as well Cheers Col
TAS
1950 Posts
Posted 01/05/2012, 8:22 am        Report Show Profile
We gotstalook after our Pommy Brethren . Now get your head around importing your resins etc.. I find that here retailers think we are a captive market.. Bugger them and import your own. Why pay someone else to do that which you can do for yourself. I am a Rock, I am an Island.. Also a Law unto myself Ron
WA
1094 Posts
Posted 01/05/2012, 7:02 pm        Report Show Profile
Just a hint,I found that it was easier to tac and mig weld on the inside of the rims(hub side) as the edge's on the outside of the rim tends to melt to easy. Cheers aus230
WA
4715 Posts
Posted 01/05/2012, 9:34 pm        Report Show Profile
had a hard afternoon today, I was doing the touch ups and jarrah trim on bookcase number 2 yes really, when i noticed a 20"x25mm rim sitting off to the side, next thing I knew id burrowed into the side shed looking for a mate( no luck ) as my mind had become fixed on20"x50mm wide flatties for the boys speed buggy .luckily I was called to dinner saving the day
64 Posts
Posted 01/05/2012, 10:04 pm        Report Show Profile
Here's how my last effort at a 20" wheel turned out (front wheel) on single rim, using same mold as 26". About 1.5 kg without tyre. After your success with a flattie Paul, I'l have a go at that too
United Kingdom
312 Posts
Posted 02/05/2012, 1:55 am        Report Show Profile
aus230 said...
Just a hint,I found that it was easier to tac and mig weld on the inside of the rims(hub side) as the edge's on the outside of the rim tends to melt to easy. Cheers aus230
You've just saved me the effort of looking for that photo I'll see if I can find a knackered steel wheel to set the spot welding up on. Thanks for the heads on that one. Cheers Col
United Kingdom
312 Posts
Posted 04/05/2012, 6:26 am        Report Show Profile
colk2004 said...
aus230 said...
Why would it cost so much, mine have cost me about $60 each to make.add tires $30 each. Must be some u/s push bikes around for wheels. I don't think you will have any problems if you follow mine or Paul's guidelines. They turn out very strong. Cheers Vic
Prices in the UK for stuff is high ("Rip off Britain"), so things are kept till useless - the last wheels I saw at the tip were buckled and anything useable is rare. Scaffold is galvanised steel so you can only get new ally scaffold at £25/3m (+del). Its cheaper for me to buy in the US and pay shipping and tax/fees on large items - tube notcher in the US £28 + £29 shipping + 20% tax + £7 handling - cheapest in the UK for the same item £114+delivery! I used to climb in France and set off with no gear, buy it in France to bring back - saving about 50-60% min. I can't tig, and I can't get steel wheels anymore so I'd have to pay someone to Tig the rims together at £45-60/hour 2 wheels - rims 32mm x 2+£38 (36mm x 2 £50 2nd hand), tyres the cheapest i can see are Kenda Kiniptions x 2 = £32, bearings x 4 = £7, hub tube = £5, spindle tube = £5, spindle bolts/nutsx2 = £13, CSM 450g in 2 layers per side = £13.80, resign and catalyst = £25, bits'n'bobs/mould board/etc = £10....so £150($230 AUS) I need to get it right first time Cheers Col
Ah hem! 12 rims = £14.95 so a fiver a pair of wheels, 1 second hand Kenda 1 new £23, change of spindle size means using existing plus bearings now £6.20 for 4, CSM £7, Epoxy resin £15.95 with spare, found a door in the attic so mould sorted, hub and spindle tube sadly £12, inner tubes 3 for £5. So thats halved the above and spare bits. Result! Cheers Col
WA
4715 Posts
Posted 04/05/2012, 4:08 pm        Report Show Profile
arghhhhh! you could have taken the grand step of making wheels with an epoxy bearing housing. if you can find some carbon scraps, you could always salvage a used airbag(apparently kevlar) and cut that into thin strips. nylon plugs for molds can be sourced if the person who makes them knew the bearing number. Id go with 6204,or 6004( 20mm shaft)
 
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