I recently stumbled across a great read about the advent of modern-day cruising cats, namely "Catamarans Offshore." Published in 1970, it is an oldie a but a goodie, that will appeal not just to not cat sailors, but to anyone with a keen interest in nautical history.
Full write-up:
blog.arribasail.com/2017/02/review-catamarans-offshore.html
I love "Catamarans Offshore", but it's also interesting to come across people who had the boats of Rudy that he DIDN'T write about - his failures. He had quite a few failures that he just ignored.
I can't agree at all with your blog where you complain about multis not being allowed into mono races. Small cats have their own races. Windsurfers have their own races. Kites have their own races. "Normal" Tour de France UCI bicycles have their own races. V8 "supercars" have their own races, with no F1 cars. Motorbikes have their own races, without allowing cars to enter. Stand up paddleboards have their own races where kayaks and rowing shells are not allowed. In other words, all types of sports gear have their own events - so why can't monos do it too?
Even when multis are allowed into mono events - as they have been here and overseas - they still don't normally get a viable fleet. The problem is not the monohullers; they are under no obligation to run events for multis, just as beach cat clubs are under no obligation to run events for kitesurfers and malibu surfboard clubs don't have to run surf ski events. The problem is probably that most people prefer racing monos FOR VERY GOOD REASONS and that sadly the multihull world would prefer to complain about mono sailors rather than try to work out how multihull racing could become more popular.
I just got back from another weekend of racing on our cat, by the way. In two weeks' time I'll be racing the cat with my brother, who owns three cats and also reckons that multis would be much better off if they stopped complaining about not being allowed to enter mono races and just did what most other sportspeople do and ran their own events. My last season of offshore racing was on a tri - and despite the skipper's attempts, only one other multi in Sydney would race offshore with us. I'm not a biased monohuller!
To Rudy's credit he did mention some of his failures, although not failed boats, just structures and there was perhaps a tendency to play them down at bit. I would have loved to learn about other failures though, as I'm sure he and others learned a great deal from them.
Re multi offshore racing, sure, monos can have their own races and multis too. And I have no beef with mono sailors and neither did Rudy Choy. It is race organizers of offshore races who instinctively rule out offering multihull divisions mostly for spurious reasons such as "safety" that concern me. For example, the decision to ban multis from the Adelaide to Port Lincoln race was particularly disappointing, as the one and only year the race was open to multis (2014) it did attract a decent fleet of multis (Arriba included). It almost certainly would have grown over time, since it is a splendid race. The good news is it spawned the creation of an entirely new race, namely the King of the Gulf, which embraced multis. I'm grateful to the KoG (which I've done twice) but the race itself is just a hop across the Gulf and, IMO, an offshore race in name only. With so few offshore races in SA, there is no reason the Lincoln Race could not have a multi division. Offering a completely new race is significantly more expensive than offering a division for an existing race, and it splits the sponsorship pool.
As an aside, I was a relatively early adopter of snowboarding, and still remember being shunned by some ski resorts in the early 90s. Things have obviously gotten better for snowboarders 
Instead of complaining what monohull sailing clubs won't do for multihull boats why don't you organize your own event?
It was monohulls that initiated the first Sydney to Hobart they run the race for themselves. Why should they now run a race for a different type of boat? Should they also include a devision for motor boats?
Should 18 foot skiffs run race's for lasers?
Let multihull sailors and clubs get off their arses and organize something if multihull sailors support it will prosper and in time become iconic.
You seem to have a resentment of monohulls and a need to justify your choice of a multihull. Your previous thread about why multi are better than mono is the prime example then this complaining about them not organizing races for multihulls. I am yet to see a thread on "here why are multihulls not as safe as monohulls." Maybe monohull sailors are just more content to say each to their own and different people like different things.
Multihulls do have an advantage over monohulls in sime areas as monohulls have their own advantages. Personally at this point of time I could not see myself buying a multihull I prefer monohulls. Others the reverse.
There is a reason the number of monohulls for out way the numbers of multihulls they must see something in them. This is similar to how people bag compass 29s and Endeavour's there is so many of them they must not be that bad and filled a market place.
I have to agree with you twodogs.
Scruzin, you posted "Why I like sailing cats" a few months back and it seems that while it did create some lively discussion, I don't think it helps the sailing community as a whole as these type of discussions can also stir up division.
A couple of responses during that thread were "This discussion is pointless" etc, etc....
I hope you aren't one of these people who sit at home and think, hmm, what can I post that will really pi$$ people off? Then laugh about it as all the replies come in.
I have been looking into cats recently, & have a couple of questions for the cat sailors, from a cruising perspective.
Would you consider a cat with one central outboard? Or do they really need two engines in close quarters to manoeuvre?.
If you get caught out with too much sail up downwind....and you want too reef....do you have to come into the wind or is it possible to reef on the go?
Can you safely gybe downwind? Or is it better to come around into the wind & do a loop onto the other tack?
And do you have to replace your sails more often (do they get blown out and baggy quicker)?
With a couple of young kids that im trying to introduce to sailing they look ideal & fun when at anchor,
cheers
Ugh! This was never intended to devolve into a mono vs. multi debate, and I'm not trying to pi$$ people off!
Rudy Choy's book was a fascinating read and the experiences those early cat sailors faced still resonate with my own personal experiences in SA (in particular, regarding the Lincoln race).
To your point, multi sailors are indeed organizing their own events, such as the KoG, organized by the The MultiHull Yacht Association of SA (of which I'm a member), but open to monos. And I do support this event by participating and paying, etc.
Organizing a multihull division for an existing race as a companion division (of several) is just a whole lot more practical than organizing a whole new race, esp. in places where there is not a lot of sponsorship dollars to go round. All of race infrastructure, start boat, SAR, skeds, etc., can be amortized across multiple divisions. It is all offshore sailing after all, and it seems a great pity to force mono and multi sailors into totally different races, esp. when sailing club memberships are struggling in many places.
Select to expand quotescruzin said..
. With so few offshore races in SA, there is no reason the Lincoln Race could not have a multi division. Offering a completely new race is significantly more expensive than offering a division for an existing race, and it splits the sponsorship pool.
Looking at it from the other side, there's as much reason for the Lincoln race to have a multi division as there is for the Australian Snowboard championships to have a ski division and a bobsled division, for Motorcycling South Australia to open up its events to cars and racing trucks, or for the shorthanded sailing association to allow fully crewed boats to race. In other words, there is no reason whatsoever to do it.
Isn't it significant that just about every type of sporting equipment (and many other groups) has its own specialist events? Doesn't that show that specialist events are good things? Restricting the gear that is permitted gives an event a focus and clarity and makes organisation easier, which is why everyone from the organisers of music festivals to car shows to yacht and multihull races do it. The weird thing is that it appears that while just about every activity has specialist events, in sailing the fully-crewed mono sailors cop criticism for it while everyone accepts limits for other types of sailing.
The sponsorship pool is split every time any sporting event is held. The sponsorship and organisational pools for sailing are split whenever there is a singlehanded race, whenever the cats have a cat regatta, whenever the windsurfers have a windsurfer event, or whenever there is a cruise. Does that mean that the singlehanders have to allow fully crewed boats to race, the windsurfers and cats have to allow Herons and 18 Foot Skiffs to race, and the organisers of the Round Tasmania cruise have to organise a racing section?
The safety reason may not be spurious. There was a significant hiccup in NSW when the RPAYC allowed multis into the Coffs race and it was found that (unlike the monos) the multis did not have the required structural certification or any easy way to get it. The multis also have more relaxed rules in many ways, like the fact that big cats with lots of windage are allowed to use outboards whereas the small monos can't, and the small tris don't have to have lifelines while big steady cruising monos do.
I sail and race multis and monos offshore, and I can understand that a bunch of volunteers who personally prefer one type of sports equipment may decide that they don't want the risk that they may have to race a coroner and explain (for example) why they have required inboards for 30 years but then decided to let some outboard-powered boats in the race. The organisers of the big multi events rarely bother to go to any trouble to allow monos in (and nor should they IMHO) so why do we expect the mono sailors to allow multis in?
One thing that is certain is that the multihull sailors have been saying for almost 60 years "if they let us in we will become popular" and they have been proven wrong for all that time. Offshore multis have been allowed in mono events for many, many years but they have almost never formed anything more than a small fraction of the fleets. Maybe after 60 or more years, it's time to stop trying a tactic that has been failing for decades and start some new thinking.
I'm just starting to look into organising a series that will allow dinghies and beach cats to race, but probably won't allow yachts and may not cater for windsurfers. In the past we have run events just for windsurfers, not for cats or dinghies. We (my wife and I) own and race a cat, a yacht, dinghies and windsurfers so we are not biased; it's just that deciding what craft should be invited can be quite complicated and a lot of the time, some degree of specialisation works better.
Select to expand quoteBlueMoon said..
I have been looking into cats recently, & have a couple of questions for the cat sailors, from a cruising perspective.
Would you consider a cat with one central outboard? Or do they really need two engines in close quarters to manoeuvre?.
If you get caught out with too much sail up downwind....and you want too reef....do you have to come into the wind or is it possible to reef on the go?
Can you safely gybe downwind? Or is it better to come around into the wind & do a loop onto the other tack?
And do you have to replace your sails more often (do they get blown out and baggy quicker)?
With a couple of young kids that im trying to introduce to sailing they look ideal & fun when at anchor,
cheers
Good questions. Answers depend on the size of your intended vessel, but I assume something in the 35'+ range.
- 2 engines offer greater maneuverability and redundancy, so well worth the extra cost/weight.
- It is possible to reef on the go, but it easiest to do so when get your apparent wind angle as close to zero possible. The iron sail will help in this regard. I often lower my mainsail on the go too (with autopilot, under motor).
- Absolutely safe to gybe downwind, and in fact preferred to tacking wherever possible. Cats like good boat speed when going into turns, and don't always have the momentum to tack well in light winds.
- I haven't noticed undue wear on my mainsail or jib, however my large gennaker, is definitely wearing faster than I would have liked, and I think this is due to frequently using it on closer reaches than it was designed for, as high as 60 degrees. My gennaker is made of ZL 08 "Code Zero" laminate and I would definitely go with something stronger next time.
- Cats are fantastic at anchor (as well as sailing). You can get in closer to shore. Kids love jumping off in 2m or less of water and swimming to shore. Make sure you use a bridle to cut down on yaw and some shock absorbers.
Select to expand quoteBlueMoon said..
I have been looking into cats recently, & have a couple of questions for the cat sailors, from a cruising perspective.
Would you consider a cat with one central outboard? Or do they really need two engines in close quarters to manoeuvre?.
If you get caught out with too much sail up downwind....and you want too reef....do you have to come into the wind or is it possible to reef on the go?
Can you safely gybe downwind? Or is it better to come around into the wind & do a loop onto the other tack?
And do you have to replace your sails more often (do they get blown out and baggy quicker)?
With a couple of young kids that im trying to introduce to sailing they look ideal & fun when at anchor,
cheers
One engine is fine in general, although two do make for great close-quarters handling. My family has had a 36 footer with twin diesels and a 38 footer with single outboard. The latter takes more skill in marinas etc but it's dramatically cheaper and less hassle in other ways. It gets down to personal preferences, IMHO.
Downwind reefing isn't much different to a mono; ie it depends on your setup and the way you do it. Gybing on a cat is probably easier than on a mono.
As a general rule, sails are generally cut from heavier cloth to compensate for the extra stability. That is part of the reason many cruising cats are a bit sluggish in light winds.
They can make fantastic cruising boats, especially for kids. A lot depends on what you want and where you are; in some areas cats are a brilliant choice but in other areas there are hidden issues like the lack of slipping facilities.
Select to expand quoteChris 249 said..scruzin said..
. With so few offshore races in SA, there is no reason the Lincoln Race could not have a multi division. Offering a completely new race is significantly more expensive than offering a division for an existing race, and it splits the sponsorship pool.
Looking at it from the other side, there's as much reason for the Lincoln race to have a multi division as there is for the Australian Snowboard championships to have a ski division and a bobsled division, for Motorcycling South Australia to open up its events to cars and racing trucks, or for the shorthanded sailing association to allow fully crewed boats to race. In other words, there is no reason whatsoever to do it.
We're going to have to agree to disagree, at least with respect to Lincoln Race. If they had never admitted multis in 2014, that would (arguably) be one thing. But they did and subsequently banned them the following year - on spurious safety grounds.
As I mentioned though, on a positive note it did foster a new event here in SA, the King of the Gulf, which is open to multis and monos.
Perhaps the reason for the 'non mixing' of yacht types is a 'line honours' thing. Missus was a go-kart
racer before we met and told me that the conventional single engine kart racing started to get infiltrated
by twin engine karts bought by the richer people. Although they raced as a different division, they won
every race and the subsequent fist pumping really aggravated the single engine types who had instigated
the racing in the first place.
So perhaps yachties prefer to race against their own types simply to see what they see as a fairer outcome.
I've never seen any evidence that the safety grounds are "spurious". Unless you can provide objective evidence that the grounds are "spurious" then to use that term is a damning insult to a bunch of people who give up their own time and effort to run the race.
At the time there was reason to believe that it could have been pressure from their sponsor (a company that refuses to insure multis, no doubt because they have done the sums) that lead to the end of the multi division. The organisers said that they could not give their reasons, and there are logical legal reasons why they may have had to say that. The organiser were then abused on Sailing Anarchy by a well known multihuller who also abused the guy who has supported the race for years. The abuse was complete rubbish based on the multihuller's ignorance (an ignorance he could have solved if he had just Googled) but the fact that a bunch of people leapt straight to abuse shows a pretty harsh attitude towards volunteers in some quarters. In fact it's so bad that even as a multihull sailor, if I were running an offshore race I would not welcome multis because of the illogical abuse that the offshore multi fraternity so often throw around.
You are right that sometimes it can be easier to run a multi fleet as part of a mono event - but that applies to many other events and only the mono sailors get criticised. It's easier to run a windsurfer event as part of a catamaran event - but the windsurfers don't complain if it doesn't happen. It's easier to run a Nacra cat event as part of a Hobie cat championship - but that doesn't happen. And there can also be very real problems - as the issue with structural certification of the multis at the Coffs event showed, allowing multis in can prove to be a real headache for race organisers. If I recall correctly the RPA took a significant legal risk in allowing the multihull structural certification procedure they did, and after all if I recall correctly that they only got three entries the first year and none the second.
Funnily enough, multi sailors exclude plenty of multis from multi events for good reasons, but they only complain when they are excluded from mono events! There's a big regatta for 14 foot cats near me - we don't complain that our F18s are not allowed in because we know the 14 guys like to have their own race. Why can't mono sailors be allowed the same courtesy?
Select to expand quotesamsturdy said..
Perhaps the reason for the 'non mixing' of yacht types is a 'line honours' thing. Missus was a go-kart
racer before we met and told me that the conventional single engine kart racing started to get infiltrated
by twin engine karts bought by the richer people. Although they raced as a different division, they won
every race and the subsequent fist pumping really aggravated the single engine types who had instigated
the racing in the first place.
So perhaps yachties prefer to race against their own types simply to see what they see as a fairer outcome.
I think there's a lot in that. Unfortunately, some of the multi pioneers like Arthur Piver had a sales technique that involved making way over-the-top claims, a fair bit of dishonesty, and a lot of insults against mono sailors and their boats. In one of the first races that allowed multis in with monos, for example, the winning multihull sailor's account of the events contains a silly insult aimed at all the mono sailors. There was also miscommunication, as in the claims about Hedley Nicol's trimarans "beating all the big monos". In reality, the only big monos that Nicol's tris beat were big slow cruising boats that were also regularly beaten by small racing monos, so the tri did little that a typical mainstream mono of the day like a Ron Swanson boat couldn't do. The tri fans didn't seem to have realised that the big boats they beat were slow ones, so they got upset when the mono sailors didn't get excited about their "feats" and assumed that the mono sailors were biased. It seems like a misunderstanding that has really harmed the multi cause. Multihull sailors sometimes get narked when mono sailors don't appreciate how fast multis go, but the reality is that pure speed doesn't really excite most mono sailors - that's why they sail monos.
I've done a bit of racing offshore multis against monos. It's like racing a windsurfer against a dinghy - it's so dependent on conditions that it's not really a race at all. One of my offshore multi skippers was massively into the whole fist pumping "ha ha we beat your mono, all monos should be burned" sort of thing, as were some of his mates. It was really embarrassing.
Select to expand quoteBlueMoon said..
I have been looking into cats recently, & have a couple of questions for the cat sailors, from a cruising perspective.
Would you consider a cat with one central outboard? Or do they really need two engines in close quarters to manoeuvre?.
If you get caught out with too much sail up downwind....and you want too reef....do you have to come into the wind or is it possible to reef on the go?
Can you safely gybe downwind? Or is it better to come around into the wind & do a loop onto the other tack?
And do you have to replace your sails more often (do they get blown out and baggy quicker)?
With a couple of young kids that im trying to introduce to sailing they look ideal & fun when at anchor,
cheers
I wouldn't like one outboard, but then I wouldn't like an outboard at all. You drive a cat in close quarters like a bulldozer, no real need to use the wheel. And always park a cat in reverse, once you get the stern line on you just use your motors to swing the bow in.
It's handy but hard to be able to reef downwind, some say it's essential, because as you come into the wind to reef you pick up lots of apparent wind as the wind comes on the beam and that can be scary. I used windslyce track on a couple of cats and that worked well.
Gybeing is no problem, no different to a mono.
Your sails will be a little heavier than a mono and will give about the same service. All the loads will be greater than a mono, frighteningly so until you get used to them. A cat sheds load in a blow by accelerating, a mono by heeling.
Cats stay more or less level at sea so things don't jump off surfaces, but the motion can be harsh and cats under 40 ft can pitch a lot, but they really come into their own at anchor.
Thanks scruzin, Chris & Phoenix.
If I was to entertain the idea of buying a cat, it would be definitely under 35' & most likely under 30', budget being the major factor at the moment. (would under 30' change your reply much scruzin?)
Use would be coastal NSW. From my experience the main problem would be being caught out with too much sail out in a 'black' NE'er.
I understand broaching is not as much a concern with a cat??, presumably its easy enough to slow them going in over bars, that they don't get picked up by the swell?
Cheers
I'm sailing my Cat from Western Port Bay to Sydney next week, an HT26. Single diesel, hydraulic drive to twin props. She and I are not racers. I'll let you know how we enjoy it.
Select to expand quoteBlueMoon said..
Thanks scruzin, Chris & Phoenix.
If I was to entertain the idea of buying a cat, it would be definitely under 35' & most likely under 30', budget being the major factor at the moment. (would under 30' change your reply much scruzin?)
Use would be coastal NSW. From my experience the main problem would be being caught out with too much sail out in a 'black' NE'er.
I understand broaching is not as much a concern with a cat??, presumably its easy enough to slow them going in over bars, that they don't get picked up by the swell?
Cheers
Lock Crowther and other designers used to be a bit dubious about smaller multis offshore, but I've never heard of a Seawind 24 or something getting into trouble. Cats tend to be fantastic bar boats because they track so straight in swells.
Select to expand quoteChris 249 said..
I've never seen any evidence that the safety grounds are "spurious". Unless you can provide objective evidence that the grounds are "spurious" then to use that term is a damning insult to a bunch of people who give up their own time and effort to run the race.
Just to clarify what I meant by "spurious." I'm not referring to the scuttlebutt on Sailing Anarchy and I don't condone the sledging on that forum.
As you say, while the letter which which was sent from the PLYC to the SA Multihull Association did not give specific reasons, it referred to excluding all "non self righting boats." The implied reason is therefore that all multihulls are unsafe. That is spurious reasoning, because it is not actually valid. FWIW, in my letter to the PLYC I suggested they could perhaps make a valid distinction between cruising cats and racing cats.
Select to expand quoteBlueMoon said..
Thanks scruzin, Chris & Phoenix.
If I was to entertain the idea of buying a cat, it would be definitely under 35' & most likely under 30', budget being the major factor at the moment. (would under 30' change your reply much scruzin?)
Use would be coastal NSW. From my experience the main problem would be being caught out with too much sail out in a 'black' NE'er.
I understand broaching is not as much a concern with a cat??, presumably its easy enough to slow them going in over bars, that they don't get picked up by the swell?
Cheers
I don't have much experience with smaller cruising cats. Personally, I would still like 2 engines , because I've become so accustomed to having the extra maneuverability. Even anchoring is easier. Perhaps with a smaller cat it is less of an issue though but I would definitely go for a test drive to be sure.
As for broaching, the video by simmrr says it alls. Cats track very well and love following seas. If you need to slow down (in really big seas or crossing bars in surf) then there is always the option of deploying a drogue.
Select to expand quotePhoenixStar said..BlueMoon said..
I have been looking into cats recently, & have a couple of questions for the cat sailors, from a cruising perspective.
Would you consider a cat with one central outboard? Or do they really need two engines in close quarters to manoeuvre?.
If you get caught out with too much sail up downwind....and you want too reef....do you have to come into the wind or is it possible to reef on the go?
Can you safely gybe downwind? Or is it better to come around into the wind & do a loop onto the other tack?
And do you have to replace your sails more often (do they get blown out and baggy quicker)?
With a couple of young kids that im trying to introduce to sailing they look ideal & fun when at anchor,
cheers
Cats stay more or less level at sea so things don't jump off surfaces, but the motion can be harsh and cats under 40 ft can pitch a lot, but they really come into their own at anchor.
And the pitching on cats tends to be most pronounced when sailing close hauled when seas get above about 1m, esp. with short swells. For folks used to the smoother heeling of a mono (albeit big motions) or not used to sailing, the short/sharp pitching of cats can be annoying. Like most things at sea, one gets used it though.
Select to expand quotescruzin said..Chris 249 said..
I've never seen any evidence that the safety grounds are "spurious". Unless you can provide objective evidence that the grounds are "spurious" then to use that term is a damning insult to a bunch of people who give up their own time and effort to run the race.
Just to clarify what I meant by "spurious." I'm not referring to the scuttlebutt on Sailing Anarchy and I don't condone the sledging on that forum.
As you say, while the letter which which was sent from the PLYC to the SA Multihull Association did not give specific reasons, it referred to excluding all "non self righting boats." The implied reason is therefore that all multihulls are unsafe. That is spurious reasoning, because it is not actually valid. FWIW, in my letter to the PLYC I suggested they could perhaps make a valid distinction between cruising cats and racing cats.
That's one possible implied reason. There are other possible reasons; perhaps they got a very conservative (and perhaps incorrect) legal opinion that only self righting boats should be permitted on safety grounds. Irrespective of whether that opinion was correct, they may have thought that once they got that, their hands were tied as if anything went wrong they would find it hard to defend themselves.
It may be important to note that it's very, very hard to find any logical (ie statistical) evidence that offshore racing multis in Australia are as safe as offshore racing monos; in fact it's arguably the other way around. That means that the club could well have been advised that they while they could defend themselves if a monohull tragedy occurred, they could have found it harder if a multihull tragedy occurred. Note that I am NOT saying that offshore multis are unsafe. I don't personally believe they are, however there is no statistical evidence to that effect; in fact I think it runs the other way.
Another possible reason is that the race sponsor, which refuses to insure multis, has a poor opinion about their safety offshore and didn't want to possibly be associated with an event involving multis because they didn't want to be associated with a capsize. While I do not believe that multis are unsafe, I believe that other people have the right to their own opinion on the matter and I note that insurers normally make decisions on actuarial data rather than bias. Given the vicious and dishonest attacks on the committee by some multihullers, it's easy to believe that some of them would have got around to viciously attacking the sponsor for supposedly being hypocritical in sponsoring multis but not insuring them.
Thirdly, someone may have said that if non self righting multis with no lifelines and outboards are allowed in the race then it was unfair to keep out trailer sailers and sportsboats, and they have a point. If a small multi is allowed in the race then why not a non-self righting radical sportsboat? Does the race committee then ban one type of unsinkable non self righting boat and not the other?
These reasons all appear to be about as logical as the one that many multihullers seem to propose, which is that after allowing multis in for one race the committee then decided to turn into a bunch of multi-hating nazi liars.
I do think that the insults thrown at the RC would have hurt the cause of multis yet again. As the earlier thread here and the SA thread indicated, at no stage did the offshore multi community ever seem to sit down and try to work out objectively what could have been motivating the committee - they fell straight to abuse and insults. And yes, most people would say it is an insult to say that a committee made a decision - any decision - on "spurious" grounds.
I see from the King of the Gulf thread that most of my classes, which can safely race off Port Vincent, are banned from the KoG. Is that victimisation of my boats? Or is it just an example of the fact that committees always exclude some craft and should not be insulted for it? I'm currently arranging a series and may "ban" yachts and the class I personally race in most and in which I was national president. Obviously I'm not biased against that class but the problem is that if it's allowed in then it may stuff up the racing in some ways. Race organisers can never satisfy everyone.
To get back to the OP; I think Rudy's book is great, apart from somethings being left out and the fact that he doesn't seem to be able to see the other side when it comes to multis being allowed into races.
Blue moon was talking about cruising cats, a very different animal to the racing cat. It is very very difficult to capsize a cruising cat, they are not so light weight. My last cat was 40 ft and 6.25 tons, getting light for a cruiser, but I believe I would break gear before it turned turtle. Indeed I did break gear - sheet, clew cringle, turning block at different times when pushing too hard.
Ramtha, a 11.6 Simpson, survived the 1992? New Zealand storm that saw monos sunk and went on to sail for a couple of months after being abandoned. Later found and salvaged relatively undamaged.
Reading this thread I remembered reading about a catamaran capsizing on Wide Bay Bar a few months before I first crossed it. I think it was "Catcha" in a link below.
I am not a fan of cats for offshore passages (far enough out that you can't head for shelter when the weather turns). Just a gut feel that I haven't shaken.
I did a quick google and found these articles of cats on the WBB.
www.svdejavu.com/svDejavuBlog/?p=867
www.cruisersforum.com/forums/f48/warning-some-may-find-this-disturbing-168350-4.html
www.multihull.com.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=90:when-things-go-wrong&catid=19&Itemid=101
Cats capsizing on the WBB has nothing to do with offshore sailing, but someone mentioned something earlier about cats being good boats to cross a bar. Uncontrolled speed is a primary cause of capsizing in big steep seas. My reading years ago was it was difficult to slow a cat down.
Just an observation; in 2011 when I cruised to the Whitsundays about 20% were cats, by 2015 80% were cats and the monos had increased in length [up to 50'].
In 2015, I, me and myself in Seaka, a Mark 1 Top Hat were definitely the smallest yacht [of any sort] cruising that year 
Select to expand quotePhoenixStar said..
Blue moon was talking about cruising cats, a very different animal to the racing cat. It is very very difficult to capsize a cruising cat, they are not so light weight. My last cat was 40 ft and 6.25 tons, getting light for a cruiser, but I believe I would break gear before it turned turtle. Indeed I did break gear - sheet, clew cringle, turning block at different times when pushing too hard.
Ramtha, a 11.6 Simpson, survived the 1992? New Zealand storm that saw monos sunk and went on to sail for a couple of months after being abandoned. Later found and salvaged relatively undamaged.
Sadly, I don't think there's a true international database of incidents that would allow us to really draw statistically valid conclusions on comparative safety. The Ramtha story is one incident. However there are other incidents such as the loss of a charter cat and all its crew when sailing from South Africa to the Seychelles (or somewhere in that region) that people tend to refer to much less. Same as that loss of a cruising cat (or its capsize, anyway) off South Australia a few years ago, or the flipping of the cruiser/racer during a Shorthanded Sailing Association race off Sydney a few years back.
The flipside (sorry) of being heavier is that there are at least some cruising cats that, according to their own designer's calculations, are not unsinkable as claimed. My parent's cat was in that category.
I'm not saying that cats are more dangerous, or less dangerous; just that there doesn't seem to be an objective source of information. To me, that was probably very significant when Rudy Choy came along and started to promote the offshore cat, as in the wonderful book Scruzin remarked about. People would have looked at the cat and thought "there's just not a shred of evidence that it's truly safe" and in that situation it would have been understandable that they didn't let them race with monos, which at that time had amassed a good safety record.
Not being a cat person but interested in the discussion, I seem to remember a baloon type
of device being placed at the top of the mast. when inflated as a result of capsize, it would
bring the top of the mast to water level and from there the boat would supposedly right
itself.
Are these devices actually fitted to cats these days and if so doesn't that take care of any
worries people might have of cats capsizing irritrevably ??.
For one, Sam, it means putting a huge amount of load on the rigging, and that load is concentrated on the masthead which is not normally taking such huge loads. Whether the rigging would stand it is a significant issue, and you'll always be carrying around extra structure just in case.
Secondly, I'm not sure whether a cruising cat would right itself once the mast tip is at water level. You would still have to life the mast, which is now heavier by the weight of the righting device. The geometry also means that you have to effectively lift the windward hull very slightly to right the boat.
It's not always easy to find sufficient righting moment when you are dealing with a beach cat where you have two crew who weigh the same as the entire boat and are 70% as tall as the boat is wide leaning off a righting line. Assuming that the same proportionate weight would be needed to re-right a 40' cruising cat from horizontal, it means you've got to be able to place (say) 7 tons of weight about 15 ft away from the boat and up in the air. That's going to take some serious equipment and some serious manipulation of it when balanced on a boat on its side.
There have been recovery systems around since the 1960s or so, but I've never yet heard of a single incident in which they actually worked in real life. It could be because the few multis that carry them have not been flipped, but I think one design that was re-rightable in practise was not re-rightable in reality. Tests carried out when nothing goes wrong and in good conditions by calm people may not come close to working in reality when the stuff hits the fan.
Flipping a multi is not normally as bad as sinking a mono. I've known a few people who flipped racing multis. All of them got back home. I've known a few people who sank monos. Not all of them got back home.
Personally I don't think flipping is a major problem for safety, but it is surprisingly common in at least one racing fleet and I know that the spectre of flipping does affect the racing for some multi fans. It's certainly affected the racing for some mono sailors.
