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Author Stalled (in irons)
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VIC
33 Posts
Posted 8/8/2011, 10:55 am        Report
Hey Guys Long time lurker 1st time poster. I am getting very frustrated in my search for a boat. I seem to be unable to break through the definition to the acquisition stage. I have been seriously looking for 9 months and have pulled the cheque book out in the last 3 months. I originally started looking at 27' such as the Northshore 27 but got caught up on the sea motion and size once it became apparent that potentially trips of 2-3 days with 4 pers aboard. I think I have finally settled on the following specs: Use: • Twilights and Saturdays in Port Phillip (PPB) • Crew likely to be short • Social sailing in PPB either short or with a few guests • 2-3 day trips in PPB and possibly Port Fairy, Refuge or Tassie. • Needs to be faster than a Phantom 32 (also read as I like to have other boats in front when we cross the line so I know where I am going.) • Available pen can handle up to 36' • Purchase price of $70K Comforts: • Must have windlass • Must have all lines to cockpit • Must have wheel • Must have self furler. • Must have enclosed head • Must have forward berth comfortable for people 5'10 • Would prefer: o Shore power o Fridge o Press water o Hot water o Gas So far I have looked at the following: • SS 34 down below too dated • Magpie 34 the one I looked at had too much work required but if I could find one that had minimal work then I think it could be a goer. • Carter 33 Can't seem to find one that had forward berths and seats in the cockpit. • Northshore 33 Modern and ticks the creature comforts not sure about the sailing suitability • Cavalier 32 New to me look OK • Jarkan 10.5 I know it's a CC but it has a good reputation. I would like to stick to production boats as many of the customs (VDS etc) have very poor internal fitouts. The prices of boats have dropped dramatically in the past 6 months and have bought boats such as the Northshore and Jarkan into range. I intend to sail this boats with an elder couple who deserve a little bit of comfort in what will possibly be their last boat. I know I am trying to buy a champagne boat on a beer budget but I might be lucky. Is their an obvious standout in what I have looked at or any obvious omissions? Ken
NSW
640 Posts
Posted 8/8/2011, 4:16 pm        Report
Ken, Have you considered a Mottle 33 or an Eastcoast 31. Both are in your ball park. The S&S34 might be a bit dated but that depends on the boat. When you are in a blow it is wonderfully reassuring to be in the most stable and solid boat you can afford. I am biased but they are an outstanding sea boat and with a budget of $70K you should have enough left over to do a lot of internal work. I have just helped a mate buy a decent one for about $40K. Cheers John
QLD
2246 Posts
Posted 8/8/2011, 5:18 pm        Report
http://boatsales.com.au/boats-for-sale/boatdetails.aspx?R=10542002 http://boatsales.com.au/boats-for-sale/boatdetails.aspx?R=10012388 http://boatsales.com.au/boats-for-sale/boatdetails.aspx?R=11113881 Three to look at , although you may have to travel a bit to find what you,re looking for.As John has said already, if you pick a boat up cheap enough, you can spend some mullah doing what you want to set it up to your liking
VIC
33 Posts
Posted 8/8/2011, 5:53 pm        Report
Yeah I suppose i shouldn't discount the SS. I hve completed a 5 day trip with 4 pers and found it very cramped. I might have to have a look with fresh eyes. The Mottle is also very popular and I am not too sure about the rear cabin. I did wander down to the marina this arvo to have a look if anything else was around. Need to check out the price of some others and see if they can make it onto the list. Thanks for the input so far
WA
1797 Posts
Posted 8/8/2011, 8:36 pm        Report
imo, anything under 38 ft or so will be crowded with 4 people. the s&s is a great boat with the right fit out. also suss out a vandestat. steer clear of roberts. slow and often heavy, but comfy. there may be the odd olympic 40 that could creep into your budget if you are patient, and able to do some work, but keep an eye on osmosis. also look out for the odd compas 38. very similar hull to the olympic, and a good sailer too.
QLD
6556 Posts
Posted 8/8/2011, 8:54 pm        Report
On Boat Point there are 8 S&S 34s. See here. http://www.boatpoint.com.au/DesktopDefault.aspx?Ns=pBoat_IsSold_Int32%7C0%7C%7CpBoat_PriceSort_Decimal%7C0%7C%7CpBoat_Make_String%7C0%7C%7CpBoat_Model_String%7C0&N=604%201454%201587%201599%201588%20607%20610%204294910475%20931%201091&tabID=804585&No=0&Nne=20 Of them all I think this one stands out. It was laid up in the UK and would have been done with epoxy resin, not polyester resin. It has great history and a fastidious owner and has heaps of gear with it. At $55,000 you will have change to set her accomodation up the way you want. Check her out here.http://www.boatpoint.com.au/boats-for-sale/boatdetails.aspx?R=7481651 If you are considering a Mottle 33, keep in mind that there was the Mottle 33 of which many were produced before Joe Adams found out they had put the keel in the wrong place. That was corrected when George Mottle sold the building rights or stopped producing them and I think it was then Carina Yachts of Sydney who then produced the corrected boat under the name of Naut 33s. Many of these were sold into the charter fleets, in particular to "Whitsunday Yachting World" which was a member of the Berkeley Group Of Companies (the cleaning and rubbish people). The other yachts they had were the Nantucket 33, Naut 40 (Joe Adams design) and the Oceanic 42. In 1985 four of us (two hetro couples) chartered a Naut 33 for a week. We found the yacht particularly suited to people who like to get wet even in moderate sailing conditions due to the centre cockpit. The forward berth was particularly suited to short people with pointed feet, the passage to the aft cabin suited midgets and the aft cabin suited people with a gut full of food and drink that were immune to sea sickness when lying athwartships in a rolly anchorage. If you are any of the above, it would be a perfect boat for you. The one we chartered was "Cryptic" which we nicknamed "The Crippled Tick" due to the copious amounts and variety of beverages we consumed and nefarious fumes we inhaled, not to mention the jolly good mood we were in. Maybe I will write that trip up in the Cruising Forum one day. Keep in mind, those boats have been around the clock a few times and early in their careers were set loose in the hands of babies. Quoteing a line from the "Adams Yacht Design" book:- "As Adams saw it, the starting point for efficient and enjoyable ocean sailing boats was a fast cruising yacht, which was not only easily driven, but also did not need a lot of crew to sail her." Joe's boats fit that bill as do the S&S 34s. Happy Hunting. P.S. Old adage of the ocean. There is no such thing as comfort or privacy aboard anything smaller than the Titanic.
VIC
33 Posts
Posted 9/8/2011, 3:17 pm        Report
Points taken Cisco. I think the Mottle is not going to be comfortable. My wife enjoys her comforts and unfortunately below decks is most likely more important than above. I also think that this will hold true for the S&S just too dated. Please don't tell anyone but I am going to slip off tomorrow and have a look at a Northshore 33 and a Jarkan 10.5 over at Royals (Williamstown) Does anyone have any info on a Jarkan 10? There is one at Brighton that clearly says Jarkan 10 (aft cockpit) but for the life of me I can't find any data. My aim is to have something for the new season and I do have a couple of fallback positions that I prefer to keep to myself (don't want the broker to know). Ken
VIC
764 Posts
Posted 9/8/2011, 4:15 pm        Report
Ken, I would have thought that your budget would allow you to look at some of the mid 30 foot production boats around the 10 year old mark. (You know the brand starting with B or J that I mean). You might have to spend a little more but your wish list of stuff is not going to be met by any of the old clunkers and you probably spend as much updating old stuff anyway. For short handed sailing and comfort the production boats will do the trick. As far as trips to Port Fairy, Refuge or Tassie via the islands you will not do these in 2-3 days. The SS 34 might be able to handle the 60 knot wind blowing outside but you are going to be nice and cosy tucked away with your creature comforts in a nice anchorage, just make sure you have enough provisions aboard so that you can wait a week if necessary. Then when you do come to update boats at some time in the future you might be able to get a buyer for old boat and not stuck with something that might be impossible to sell in 5-10 years.
NSW
1714 Posts
Posted 9/8/2011, 4:40 pm        Report
kenif said...
Points taken Cisco. Does anyone have any info on a Jarkan 10? There is one at Brighton that clearly says Jarkan 10 (aft cockpit) but for the life of me I can't find any data. My aim is to have something for the new season and I do have a couple of fallback positions that I prefer to keep to myself (don't want the broker to know). Ken
Jarkans were built here at Nowra and now Huskisson by Kanga Birtles. Most people are familiar with the centre cockpit 10.5 but they built several other models as well. There is a Jarkan 31 down the river from me. Lovely boat by an American designer whose name escapes me at the moment. Keep an eye out for a Brolga 33 as well as Magpie 34's. Then my choices would be SS34, Duncanson 34 and Carter 33 though the Carters cockpit layout is a pain. These are well under your budget and seem cramped below but its all usable space. You may have to forgo space for seaworthiness. I prefer aft cockpits.
WA
380 Posts
Posted 9/8/2011, 6:56 pm        Report
I would recommend you take a look at the cole35 there is a few around. I had a Carter33 with vberth and cockpit seats . a tough boat . but didnt have the internal volume of the Cole 35.
QLD
406 Posts
Posted 10/8/2011, 8:09 am        Report
Lovely, sunny day in PPB, afternoon seabreeze 15k, You leave Mel. in the morning. by sunset you 15 miles into Bass St. gusting 35. How often you get crew to do it. Dodger, or pilothouse would be nice as we get older and first excitement subsides. The boat is either toy a part of the family. As a toy 45k is ok as fam. member 100k, would be better.
VIC
33 Posts
Posted 10/8/2011, 3:22 pm        Report
Okay Thanks for the input. I'll need to look at the Cole. I have looked at all others and I believe the S&S Cisco identified may be sold? I spoke with a broker this arvo and he told me that he has had a lot of problems moving boats with IOR design boats. Purchases today seem to want a boat that has better cockpit space - food for thought. I has a look at a Jarkan 10.5 and as far a CC boats go this one seemed OK design wise. Not too sure that it meets my original brief and am somewhat concerned at performance issues. Might need to revisit my brief! Had a look at 2 North 33's, one very good condition and one not so good. Pretty impressed by the layout both upstairs and downstairs. Modern design should aid resale. I have taken on board comments about mid 90's production boats and will see what I come up with. Now where's that lotto tickets?
VIC
764 Posts
Posted 10/8/2011, 3:50 pm        Report
If you are going to revisit your original brief and are going to get your wife on side you might also add to the list -spray dodger -bimini -COCKPIT CUSHIONS!!!
QLD
2246 Posts
Posted 10/8/2011, 5:53 pm        Report
frant said...
If you are going to revisit your original brief and are going to get your wife on side you might also add to the list -spray dodger -bimini -COCKPIT CUSHIONS!!!
Don,t forget gimbled stubbie holder for cockpit
NSW
640 Posts
Posted 10/8/2011, 9:47 pm        Report
If the S&S34 re-enters your list, the later Swarbrick boats were epoxy resin. I think the change from polyester resin occured about 1980 and coincides with the 4 port per side cabin top being introduced. The earlier round forward hatch boats were polyester. This is only a rough estimate but a query on the S&s34 website would clarify. http://www.ss34.org/ Make sure you look at one with the engine under the cockpit as they had more internal space, at the expense of some balance.
QLD
6556 Posts
Posted 10/8/2011, 11:09 pm        Report
Another design very worthy of consideration is the Arends 33. Below deck on one of these yachts you would swear you were aboard a 40 footer. That will certainly keep the ladies happy. There are only 6 listings for them on Boat Point which when you look at it comes down to 3 yachts. The listing at $59,000 is for a yacht named "Spitfire" aboard which I have been. She was owned from new by an absolute gentleman and great sailor by the name of Keith Leith who was a Spitfire pilot during WW II, hence the name of the yacht. Keith is the guy who originally built or had built "The Spit Marina" in Middle Harbour, Sydney. If memory serves me correctly, he told me he sold the marina for about $750,000. There is probably so few of them for sale because the production run was not large and those that own them know what a gem they have. These are traditional looking yachts above the waterline but below it are quite slick in the water. Of particular note is the skeg, propeller aperture and rudder arrangement. Very intelligently thought out to say the least. Looking at it one can see that engine location has to be above the keel which is a feature of the S&S 34 as built true to Olin Stevens design concept. Wieght placed as low and as central as possible. Also looking at the Arends arrangement you will see that the rudder is narrower at the top and broader at the bottom and is almost a spade rudder except for the little extension from the skeg supporting it. How responsive to steering do you think these yachts are??? But that is not all. There's more!!! If you have a 3 blade prop, maybe you have to take it off or just get it in the right position, but with a 2 blade prop you could probably leave it on, put the rudder to one side and slide the propeller shaft straight out without having to remove the rudder. Also of note is the almost 11 foot beam, just under 4 and a half foot draught and strong single spreader rig similar to an S&S 34. I do believe this is a yacht that can handle Bass Straight conditions capably, tuck in close in the tightest of anchorages and has the internal volume and stores carrying capacity to afford a good standard of comfort for a crew of 4 for up to 21 days away from ports of replenishment, possibly more. Further, this design of yacht, de-stored and de-tanked, I believe can be raced very credibly in club races. @kenif.................Ask yourself these questions:- Am I right brain thinking (imagineative, fantasising, impetuous)? or Am I left brain thinking (logical, realistic, practical)? Do I want to go racing, cruising, or a good balance of both?? Do I want to play the brokers against each other or just get the right yacht??
VIC
33 Posts
Posted 11/8/2011, 7:45 am        Report
Cisco I was actually at the broker who has the Arends looking at a Magpie. Unfortunately he didn't say anything otherwise I would have wandered over. You are right about the scarcity of the Arends, not many built and people who have them are very reluctant to let them go. Great boat designed and built for Oz. I haven't discounted it and it was actually one of my fall back positions but now we all know about it. It's funny but even after all the stalking of forums etc that I have done new stuff keeps popping up. At this stage my short list would most likely look like: Northshore 33 Arends 33 Jarkan 925 ? Not discounted but needs further thought Cole 35 Left Brain and a good mixture of racing and cruising.
QLD
6556 Posts
Posted 11/8/2011, 8:53 am        Report
Sounds like you are on the right track.
VIC
33 Posts
Posted 6/9/2011, 7:34 am        Report
Guys I have just reread this post and was very encouragaed by what I read. Unlike other forums Seabreeze seems to give honest information but with a distinct Australian flavour. Well I actually settled on a boat yesterday. I will not post any pictures till I have it in my pen. Can anyone guess what it is and which one? Thanks to all.
QLD
6556 Posts
Posted 6/9/2011, 9:05 am        Report
Spitfire is a pretty good boat at a pretty good price. ......???
VIC
33 Posts
Posted 6/9/2011, 10:23 am        Report
Cisco Nice try fail. Spitfire was my fallback option that fortunately I did not have to exercise. The boat is much further south. But not west.
VIC
2765 Posts
Posted 6/9/2011, 4:53 pm        Report
i,m saying .... mottle in tassie
VIC
33 Posts
Posted 7/9/2011, 12:34 pm        Report
Not the Mottle but location good guess. Hint.
QLD
538 Posts
Posted 7/9/2011, 1:18 pm        Report
Cole 35
VIC
33 Posts
Posted 7/9/2011, 2:24 pm        Report
Nope
QLD
538 Posts
Posted 7/9/2011, 2:59 pm        Report
I still think she's a Cole!! Northshore perhaps??
NSW
27 Posts
Posted 7/9/2011, 3:21 pm        Report
This Northshore 33?
VIC
33 Posts
Posted 7/9/2011, 7:33 pm        Report
We have a winner! That's the one. Just waiting for delivery. As it is my first boat I am eagerly anticipating its arrival.
VIC
33 Posts
Posted 15/9/2011, 9:23 am        Report
Okay It's now the 15th of September and I haven't seen my boat. In fact I was beginning to doubt that i even own one, that is until the broker sent me an email sayng the delivery skipper is looking at a weather window opening up on Friday! Yayyyyyy That means I may see my boat Tuesday/Wednesday next week. I don't remember being this excited since the birth of my kids 25 years ago!
NSW
127 Posts
Posted 15/9/2011, 7:39 pm        Report
Hi Kenif Congratulations on your purchase, I hope she matches your wish list as a few of us thought you were taking the piss at the start. Anyway, do not congratulate Badinfluence to much on her guess as she would continue guessing for quite some time until she had mentioned every yacht ever built Lol. Your damn right about this forum, there are great people here with good sound knowledge that go out of there way to help like Cisco, Sands, B A, Frant, Charriot Morning Bird and more. They have all helped me in one way or an other, its a great site.
VIC
334 Posts
Posted 16/9/2011, 12:06 pm        Report
Hi Ken, I've been reading your thread, glad you settled on a boat. It's missing a couple of hulls but looks pretty sweet.
 
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