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Forums > Stand Up Paddle General

Maybe just because I'm large - Your thoughts.

Created by JB A week ago, 11 Jan 2017
JB
NSW, 1601 posts
Site Sponsor
A week ago, 11 Jan 2017
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I think SUP Racing divisions should be based on weight instead of age. This would be far more competitive and likely invite more racers of the larger category .

Just thinking out loud.

JB

JEG
VIC, 235 posts
A week ago, 11 Jan 2017
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or both age and weight category though SUP is not that big yet.

E T
QLD, 2039 posts
A week ago, 11 Jan 2017
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Sorry JB, your not over 60, age rules.

ET.

HumanCartoon
VIC, 2024 posts
A week ago, 11 Jan 2017
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Select to expand quote
JB said..
I think SUP Racing divisions should be based on weight instead of age. This would be far more competitive and likely invite more racers of the larger category .

Just thinking out loud.

JB






You're not that large JB

As an OFB I have a natural interest in this. SUPVIC has played with this, to a point. Best we could come up with was a "Power Paddlers" division* that has featured at events from time to time. The line was drawn at 100kg**, even then there was some big disparity in paddler weight but at least we weren't chasing the 70kg whippets. We still sometimes ended up in the (slightly embarrassing) position of having more medals than paddlers.

Thing is, how fine do you cut it? You could go completely silly and cut it as fine as boxing...


(*I wanted to call it "Clydesdale" class but for some reason that name was unpopular)
(** I think that's where some triathlons start their Clydesdale classes)

AndyR
QLD, 1239 posts
A week ago, 11 Jan 2017
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A Handy cap system for anything outside of elite racers.
Or title racers ie state titles/nationals

paul.j
WA, 2580 posts
A week ago, 11 Jan 2017
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hahaha

WE have a race coming up so with JB in mind i am going to get a big set of scales and at rego i will make all the larger paddlers stand on them and put their weight up so we can make sure we class them in to the right division kind of like on that show biggest losers!! we could even get some scales that go up and down to add a bit of suspense!!

Is this what you are talking about?

Todzilla
144 posts
A week ago, 11 Jan 2017
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I'm down for a Clydesdale class!!! I'd make it open as far as boards go too...

Tardy
NSW, 1146 posts
A week ago, 11 Jan 2017
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75 kg on a 14/ 280 litre board
Vs
95 kg on a 14 / 280 litre board

he will most of the time win

maybe 16/320 litre

you need a custom ..dude .

yes unfair .

in windsurfing you can pick what you need..eg .size ... Why not SUPing.

they won't allow it

damo666
ACT, 131 posts
A week ago, 12 Jan 2017
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May sound harsh, but this sounds a bit like a "every kiddie wins a prize" type of solution.

To say that all paddlers are equal just because they are under 75kg is just as vague as saying all 40yo paddlers are of equal speed.

As HumanCartoon mentions, where do you cut the weight limits? every 20kg, 10kg, 5kg, every 2kg? There is always going to be someone that at the top end of the scale that feels like they are being hard done by...

JB
NSW, 1601 posts
Site Sponsor
A week ago, 12 Jan 2017
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This may be getting taken wrongly.

This was not to add a whole bunch of divisions, this is to depending on numbers categorize the divisions by weight instead of age. There will always be an open/elite division, but in the case of when there is more than 5-10 entrees in a certain area, they would be able to make their own division. So instead of (in the case of a N1SCO event) Groms, Juniors, Open Men, Open Women, O40's Men, O40's Women, O50 Men. You might have Under 40kg, Under 70kg, Under 85 and the big rigs divisions (or something like that). There is a lot of very fit and fast 45-55 YO that I think would be better of competing against each other in a relative weight group. Generally at certain weights comes a board width choice which would create a more competitive division IMO.

I also think in the possible event of there be a O100kg group, you would get a lot more of the big rigs racing as they would be competitive, instead of getting smoked by 70kg freaks on 24" boards.

Just a thought, it would not actually be different to the number of divisions already, just captured differently.

My 2C

JB

margeaux
QLD, 18 posts
A week ago, 12 Jan 2017
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Totally agree with you on weight divisions.
Reminds me of when I raced go karts, there was an elite class but the rest of us wood ducks would race in weight divisions. Extra weight makes such a difference

RedThumb
40 posts
A week ago, 12 Jan 2017
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What about a mostly calories burnt division? Wear hrm's and input your weight, height, age and m/f. My tom tom multisports can handle it and thats how my wife and I compete across various sports including paddling.

tobyha
NSW, 39 posts
A week ago, 12 Jan 2017
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I gave up racing Wally's due to the frustration of being 92kgs and being so far behind everyone whom was lighter on the lake, would have carried on racing if I had been allowed a larger sail just to keep on the same lap! It's not like we were racing for the farm! There were no other heavy weights racing so needed something to help, a 6m sail used by someone whom is 60kgs was a lot quicker than me using the same sail in most conditions.

Paddling with Todzilla he is 6'9 and 115kgs, his being on a 14 is just not fair! He paddles an Ace unlimited which is a much more appropriate length to allow him to paddle effectively.

Actually JB I like the idea a lot, getting the classes right would be tricky though. Take the windsurfing raceboard weights: Light weight - 69.9 kg and below; Medium weight - 70 to 85 kg; Heavy weight - 85.1 kg and above. Seems a little narrow to me!

Age seems to make very little difference to speed in our paddling group!



JB
NSW, 1601 posts
Site Sponsor
A week ago, 12 Jan 2017
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Ha, Tobyha. Same boat with the wally's. FYI, this year at the Nationals (next week) there is a super-heavy weight at 95kg+

At the moment most good events have Open, O40 & O50 in the Mens plus a juniors. So I think offering a <40kg, <75kg, <95 and over 95kg divisions would work well.

JB

JEG
VIC, 235 posts
A week ago, 12 Jan 2017
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change it in 20 years time as I just bought a 17ft unlimited cabinet to make space for more medals.

Casso
NSW, 3280 posts
A week ago, 12 Jan 2017
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Great idea - but I think it should be based on Body Mass Index (BMI).

The current Australian SUP Race Champion is only a few kilos lighter than me but he sure is a lot fitter and faster - his weight is from muscle, mine is from fat (insert chiko roll and potato scallop here).

We could even use the standard BMI ranges for the classes at our events:

< BMI 18 – Malnourished
< BMI 25 – Healthy
< BMI 30 – Overweight
> BMI 30 – Obese

SupaTrooper
QLD, 239 posts
A week ago, 12 Jan 2017
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Forget rider weight, for all competitive racing there should be a set standard length + a set standards width + a set range of volume for the boards used, focus on the riders ability to paddle (strength, technique and aerobic capacity).....remove the inequality of a person having a speed advantage because their body size allows them to ride a board which something like 23 inches wide vs a larger bloke (not necessarily fat) who does not have that advantage and rides a 26 inch plus wide board.....my misses keeps telling me that the extra 3 inches makes all the difference.....

damo666
ACT, 131 posts
A week ago, 12 Jan 2017
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At 5'11" I gave up the dream of playing top line basketball when blokes who had similar skills as me but were +5 inches in height kept getting picked in rep teams first.

Does this mean the sport should have been changed to suit my particular dimensions & requirements, or is it simply that I was not ideally suited to become a top level rep in the sport that I chose to participate in?

Are we suggesting that all 70kg paddlers are a similar pace? In the classes suggested, what if I am 94kg and still have to compete with the 76kg whippets?

On most race days 95% of the field are not going to be winners. I reckon 95% of those people still go home happy that they had a crack and tried their best. Find someone roughly your pace, compete with them, have some fun and be happy!

(and I'm honestly not trying to be a w*nker here. I just dont see it as being unfair, just life!!).

Loz79
QLD, 387 posts
A week ago, 12 Jan 2017
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Select to expand quote
damo666 said..
At 5'11" I gave up the dream of playing top line basketball when blokes who had similar skills as me but were +5 inches in height kept getting picked in rep teams first.

Does this mean the sport should have been changed to suit my particular dimensions & requirements, or is it simply that I was not ideally suited to become a top level rep in the sport that I chose to participate in?

Are we suggesting that all 70kg paddlers are a similar pace? In the classes suggested, what if I am 94kg and still have to compete with the 76kg whippets?

On most race days 95% of the field are not going to be winners. I reckon 95% of those people still go home happy that they had a crack and tried their best. Find someone roughly your pace, compete with them, have some fun and be happy!

(and I'm honestly not trying to be a w*nker here. I just dont see it as being unfair, just life!!).



Totally agree....does everything today need to be about winning??, is that why kids get trophies for participating nowadays so not to upset the losers?? There is nothing wrong with losing...so get out, get fit, meet new friends and have some fun...Where do we go next, maybe divisions based on how much training each guy does!!...suck it up i reckon

gregc
ACT, 1269 posts
A week ago, 12 Jan 2017
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yea Casso BMI doesnt work as its based on the flawed theory that every person is exactly the same. I dont think we have enough competitors to actually run weight classes. I have suggested though that the Noosa Festival have a weight division for SUP Surfing (ensuring that I get past round 1).
Select to expand quote
Casso said..
Great idea - but I think it should be based on Body Mass Index (BMI).

The current Australian SUP Race Champion is only a few kilos lighter than me but he sure is a lot fitter and faster - his weight is from muscle, mine is from fat (insert chiko roll and potato scallop here).

We could even use the standard BMI ranges for the classes at our events:

< BMI 18 – Malnourished
< BMI 25 – Healthy
< BMI 30 – Overweight
> BMI 30 – Obese




Piros
QLD, 4539 posts
A week ago, 12 Jan 2017
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Yeah way too hard stick to the ages classes IMHO

JB
NSW, 1601 posts
Site Sponsor
Friday, 13 Jan 2017
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Please note this is not about getting more winners, it's the same number of categories. The idea is to have like competitors in each division. i.e. the 95+kg guys will be on 27-29" boards, the 85+kg guys will be on 26" and the whippets will be on 23-24" boards. not an O40's divisions where the front of the fleet are all on 24" and the back on 28". Also please note, I think it is very important to keep the Elite/Open Division. I feel this is just a better way to get more people involved and participating (probably more on the larger side) because they will be at least on the same side of the coarse as the rest of their division and likely therefore having more fun. There's always going to be Elite racer's of varying weight, age and all that, but out sports survives on the other 99% of paddlers having fun with friends.

Loving all the feed back, some good comments.



Ride safe,

JB

Markus56
NSW, 9 posts
Friday, 13 Jan 2017
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Another thing to throw in the mix. If you could work out the timing--a handicap start , slower guys first of course. Can make for exciting finishes and the good paddlers do not always win as the handicap can be adjusted for the next race. I have seen it work in other sports.

DavidJohn
VIC, 15413 posts
Friday, 13 Jan 2017
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Select to expand quote
JB said...
Please note this is not about getting more winners, it's the same number of categories. The idea is to have like competitors in each division. i.e. the 95+kg guys will be on 27-29" boards, the 85+kg guys will be on 26" and the whippets will be on 23-24" boards. not an O40's divisions where the front of the fleet are all on 24" and the back on 28". Also please note, I think it is very important to keep the Elite/Open Division. I feel this is just a better way to get more people involved and participating (probably more on the larger side) because they will be at least on the same side of the coarse as the rest of their division and likely therefore having more fun. There's always going to be Elite racer's of varying weight, age and all that, but out sports survives on the other 99% of paddlers having fun with friends.

Loving all the feed back, some good comments.



Ride safe,

JB


I agree and I like it.. It seems a much fairer way than just age groups alone.

damo666
ACT, 131 posts
Friday, 13 Jan 2017
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If its not about winning or the results - then dont those groupings just happen naturally themselves now? What does implementing a new class do?

Cobra
5806 posts
Friday, 13 Jan 2017
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Select to expand quote
Casso said..
Great idea - but I think it should be based on Body Mass Index (BMI).

The current Australian SUP Race Champion is only a few kilos lighter than me but he sure is a lot fitter and faster - his weight is from muscle, mine is from fat (insert chiko roll and potato scallop here).

We could even use the standard BMI ranges for the classes at our events:

< BMI 18 – Malnourished
< BMI 25 – Healthy
< BMI 30 – Overweight
> BMI 30 – Obese



BMI is now classified as stone age scale.

ShireSUP
NSW, 980 posts
Saturday, 14 Jan 2017
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What I won't be turning up for the lucky door prizes anymore

great idea JB I have a little more incentive to be competing now

Zeusman
NSW, 1053 posts
Saturday, 14 Jan 2017
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Select to expand quote
JB said..
I think SUP Racing divisions should be based on weight instead of age. This would be far more competitive and likely invite more racers of the larger category .

Just thinking out loud.

JB


I think its a good idea JB.

Hawaiiheke
265 posts
Saturday, 14 Jan 2017
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Make all events a duathalon of paddling and boxing. That should even out the whippets!

Whassup
NSW, 80 posts
Sunday, 15 Jan 2017
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That's ok for you fat blokes. (Sorry is that politically incorrect?) not so good for us old blokes.



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Forums > Stand Up Paddle General


"Maybe just because I'm large - Your thoughts." started by JB