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It's turned into an 18'.
http://www.naishsurfing.com/2013/Glide%20Javelin%2018%20LE/
And just when DJ was looking for something 16' long. |
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That's a massive jump from 14' to 18'!? Not sure how big the market for something that size would be here.
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I'm planing to paddle my 17' Jav today.. Love that board.. 
It's being replaced with a new 18.. That's going to be awesome.
Please Mr Naish.. We need a DW board in between the 14' Glide and the new 18.. Something around 15-16' would be nice.. 
DJ |
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rager said...
That's a massive jump from 14' to 18'!? Not sure how big the market for something that size would be here.
agree, as much as i love my sic bullet, it just doesn't 'fit' sometimes. mind you when it's on- well. 
i keep my eyes open for a second hand sic v2 f16, maybe one day 
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Wow I find my DC 14 footer long enough and hard enough to cart around and store ... And how there going 18 what's need a 28 footer!! Will all be needed semi trailers to go down winding!!
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laceys lane said...
rager said...
That's a massive jump from 14' to 18'!? Not sure how big the market for something that size would be here.
agree, as much as i love my sic bullet, it just doesn't 'fit' sometimes. mind you when it's on- well.
i keep my eyes open for a second hand sic v2 f16, maybe one day
Imagine trying to get that in through that 5' beachie a couple of weeks back. Surely they should have something inbetween? There are 5 x 14 footers on the website!
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What a shame Kai Lenny didn't have it for the M2O. Surely it would have been quicker than the 14  |
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kissa said...
What a shame Kai Lenny didn't have it for the M2O. Surely it would have been quicker than the 14
my guess is that he was on the 14' so that naish can claim victory in the 14' class without having to really compete with any of the big names in the unlimited category. Pretty much a safe bet.
Where as you dont want to launch a new board and then have it beaten by a SIC thats been around for a while..?
my 2 cents...
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lookToSea said...
kissa said...
What a shame Kai Lenny didn't have it for the M2O. Surely it would have been quicker than the 14
my guess is that he was on the 14' so that naish can claim victory in the 14' class without having to really compete with any of the big names in the unlimited category. Pretty much a safe bet.
Where as you dont want to launch a new board and then have it beaten by a SIC thats been around for a while..?
my 2 cents...
Not sure about that, the way I see it he did compete against many of the open class. You have to admit that overall placing was pretty good..
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not denying he did great in the race overall, and that he might have won in the unlimited class, just think there is more strategy involved with board choice. I imagine alot of boards are sold based on their performance in these types of races.
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This might be a dumb question, but at what stage does a board become too long in reference to speed & water displacement? I don't know much about race boards, but 18' seems to be pushing the length a bit (I have a 11'6" and often told that it's very long for a sup...I also have a 20' fishing boat that barely fits in the shed - no insult intended ).
I understand the difference & have watched the race vids & DWers where they're powering along on 12' & 14' boards but seeing the evolution of windsurfing boards from long/narrow to short/wide, same with surf-sups - from 12' to 18' over the past couple of years seems extreme (maybe moving toward pairs boards? that would be good to watch!  ). Is the added length countered by decreasing width? and will they keep going until the board isn't practical from a balance aspect re; water chop over 18'? |
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Well that's a shame you need to get some of theses
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It does seem a strange decision to go 18 rather than 16. I can just fit my 17fter into a standard garage here in the UK, by placing it diagonally from floor to ceiling. 18ft? forget it, much as I'd like one.
And to not have a stable 14fter seems an own goal as well - instead, tippy highly specialised boards that are probably too expensive and difficult for most users.
Seems like they are actually *trying* to make boards that will mostly only have niche appeal!
Shame, I very much like Naish distance boards (I have two of them), but there's nothing here for me. I'd have had a 15ft/16ft ocean DW board (with good stability, please) in a flash. They also seem rather heavy given their construction, with the exception of the hollow pencil - other brands are doing better. Meh.
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This is my f18 it's 18'6'' and is built for speed I love this Downwind Board in 10-15 knots of SSE winds and a 1-2ft of South Swell it will do a 5 minute k with minimal effort. Maybe you guys need to build a bigger garage.
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Area10 said...
It does seem a strange decision to go 18 rather than 16. I can just fit my 17fter into a standard garage here in the UK, by placing it diagonally from floor to ceiling. 18ft? forget it, much as I'd like one.
And to not have a stable 14fter seems an own goal as well - instead, tippy highly specialised boards that are probably too expensive and difficult for most users.
Seems like they are actually *trying* to make boards that will mostly only have niche appeal!
Shame, I very much like Naish distance boards (I have two of them), but there's nothing here for me. I'd have had a 15ft/16ft ocean DW board (with good stability, please) in a flash. They also seem rather heavy given their construction, with the exception of the hollow pencil - other brands are doing better. Meh.
Have to agree with all of that.
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Area10 said...
It does seem a strange decision to go 18 rather than 16. I can just fit my 17fter into a standard garage here in the UK, by placing it diagonally from floor to ceiling. 18ft? forget it, much as I'd like one.
And to not have a stable 14fter seems an own goal as well - instead, tippy highly specialised boards that are probably too expensive and difficult for most users.
Seems like they are actually *trying* to make boards that will mostly only have niche appeal!
Shame, I very much like Naish distance boards (I have two of them), but there's nothing here for me. I'd have had a 15ft/16ft ocean DW board (with good stability, please) in a flash. They also seem rather heavy given their construction, with the exception of the hollow pencil - other brands are doing better. Meh.
Aww C'mon maybe you just need to move to a bigger country with a bigger garage just like the other 10 million Brit's living here.
As for the weight we don't even know what these will weigh yet. The LE construction is new to the NAISH range so wait and see on that one
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there's probably a very small market here in aus for them, but the rest of the world has a big demand for them...australia is such a small portion of the world
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The weights for the 2013 boards are given on the Naish website.
As for the garage issue, that's only half the problem. I had to laugh when Downwinder said he loves his 18ft+ board in 10-15 knots. We've only had that little wind during daylight hours for about 12 hours total over the last 3 weeks! And this is summer. Today it was 22-27 knots. Yesterday it was 25 knots...last Sunday we had a race and the upwind leg was gusting over 30, only three competitors managed even to paddle standing. There is a reason why the Olympic sailing is being held on this coast right now. If I had a board suited to 10-15 knots I'd hardly ever use it. Well, actually, I do, and I don't.
So don't give me some stupid tippy toy only fit for canals or mythical flat windless summer evenings, or some ridiculous behemoth that will break the bank, stick out 2 metres beyond the rear of my car, and you can't paddle cross-wind unless that wind has as much power as your granny blowing in your ear. Give me something stable, fast downwind, easy to handle in hell conditions, uncomplicated, light, and preferably will do double duty as an expedition board or to carry the kids.
Oh, wait, I've already got one of those. It's called a Coreban Dart.
Nope, although it grieves me to say it since I am a Naish fan, I reckon they have scored an own goal here. They should have listened to the Oracle: DJ.
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Area10 - Naish have one of the best allround downwind racing/cruising boards in the 14' Glide. It's plenty stable for guys up to 95-100kg. Granted its not as stable as the Dart, but its way faster in flat and downwind. The Dart is is a niche board for the really heavy riders and its great for that purpose. Naish have decided that the Glide covers most of the riders out there (except perhaps the 100kg+ guys)
You are critizising Naish for bringing out boards aimed at lighter competitive riders. The LE range is not your everyday board - its aimed at riders up to 80kg who want to be competitive - for the weekend warrior the Glide is your answer and yes, the really big guys may have to look elsewhere. I think its exciting that you can get production boards that can compete agains the specialized customs.
The 18' is another niche product which only very dedicated paddlers will choose - its not an everyday product and it will most likely be aimed a the more serious paddlers. I have a 17' and its a great board (as fast as Jav in flat and much more stable) - the new 18' is likely to be somewhat quicker and I really look forward to it.
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PeterP said...
Area10 - Naish have one of the best allround downwind racing/cruising boards in the 14' Glide. It's plenty stable for guys up to 95-100kg. Granted its not as stable as the Dart, but its way faster in flat and downwind. The Dart is is a niche board for the really heavy riders and its great for that purpose. Naish have decided that the Glide covers most of the riders out there (except perhaps the 100kg+ guys)
You are critizising Naish for bringing out boards aimed at lighter competitive riders. The LE range is not your everyday board - its aimed at riders up to 80kg who want to be competitive - for the weekend warrior the Glide is your answer and yes, the really big guys may have to look elsewhere. I think its exciting that you can get production boards that can compete agains the specialized customs.
The 18' is another niche product which only very dedicated paddlers will choose - its not an everyday product and it will most likely be aimed a the more serious paddlers. I have a 17' and its a great board (as fast as Jav in flat and much more stable) - the new 18' is likely to be somewhat quicker and I really look forward to it.
As a really big guy Naish can go F#$% themselves...............anyone have the number for Dale?
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That's because you LOVE sausages!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
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E T said...
That's because you LOVE sausages!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Pie eaters
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E T said...
That's because you LOVE sausages!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Guilty as charged................but only after 5 kms races not on a Naish board anymore (evermore)
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Area10 said...
The weights for the 2013 boards are given on the Naish website.
As for the garage issue, that's only half the problem. I had to laugh when Downwinder said he loves his 18ft+ board in 10-15 knots. We've only had that little wind during daylight hours for about 12 hours total over the last 3 weeks! And this is summer. Today it was 22-27 knots. Yesterday it was 25 knots...last Sunday we had a race and the upwind leg was gusting over 30, only three competitors managed even to paddle standing. There is a reason why the Olympic sailing is being held on this coast right now. If I had a board suited to 10-15 knots I'd hardly ever use it. Well, actually, I do, and I don't.
So don't give me some stupid tippy toy only fit for canals or mythical flat windless summer evenings, or some ridiculous behemoth that will break the bank, stick out 2 metres beyond the rear of my car, and you can't paddle cross-wind unless that wind has as much power as your granny blowing in your ear. Give me something stable, fast downwind, easy to handle in hell conditions, uncomplicated, light, and preferably will do double duty as an expedition board or to carry the kids.
Oh, wait, I've already got one of those. It's called a Coreban Dart.
Nope, although it grieves me to say it since I am a Naish fan, I reckon they have scored an own goal here. They should have listened to the Oracle: DJ.
I've had my f18 in 25-30 knots and went Unreal just flies but you need ability to paddle as SUP of this size in 25-30 knot winds in those conditions of 25-30 knot winds I'd be on my 17ft custom f16 would be just loving 25-30 knot winds (Yes Please Mr Wizard)
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Peterp - you raise some interesting issues, so I'll deal with each in turn:
1. You are a Naish importer, so you have to defend your product. And you do that very effectively, so I applaud you. But the Naish Glide 14 is NOT stable enough for the average guy in the DW conditions we have round here. A friend of mine bought one and has had to sell it because it is too tippy to use in the conditions he bought it for. For the elite paddlers you paddle with, in the conditions you have in SA, maybe it is perfect. But the people I am trying to stick up for IS the weekend warrior (even though I am not one, many of my friends are) and/or the bigger guy (same), who usually cannot choose their conditions, and need a board that can cope with anything, and flatter him/herself. These people will outnumber the Kai Lennys of the world, so it is strange to me that Naish are not adding anything to the range in the 14ft range that is obviously aimed at this bigger group of people. The only people who can afford boards new these days, generally, are not people in their teens or early 20s.
2. I am NOT criticising Naish for adding elite-paddler-only boards to the range. I AM however criticising them for not adding a 14ft (or longer) equivalent of the Glide 12-6 x 30. In other words, a more stable version of the 27.25" 14ft Glide.
3. I am glad that you acknowledge the new 18fter to be a niche board. I am also NOT criticising Naish for bringing a long board out - indeed in an post somewhere or other a few months ago I specifically said I would like a 17ft or more flat water board from Naish. But what I AM criticising them for is prioritising such a niche board over a 15-16ft board (both flat water and ocean, ideally), which would appeal to a much broader range of people.
So, in summary, I am NOT criticising the boards specifically in this new range. They do look exciting - although not for me in the conditions I deal with most often.
But what I am very disappointed about is NOT to also see in their 2013 line-up the following:
1. A 14ft x 29" DW/ocean/expedition board.
2. A 15-16ft x 28" DW board.
3. A modified shape 17fter: the 17 is a great board, plenty long enough for most, and just could just have benefited from a couple of updates to make it more adaptable (e.g. fixed fin box) to a wider variety of conditions and uses.
Of course, the sample of replies to my posts on this forum will be skewed towards those involved with Naish and/or elite paddlers. They have a reason to bother to write, in a way that those potential customers who are passively agreeing with me at home do not. So there will always be more criticism of my points than support in a situation like this.
But that does not mean that there aren't more potential customers out there who are looking at the new range and thinking like me, rather than how Kai Lenny would view the range. Fortunately I am not associated with any brand or company, so I can call it exactly as I see it. And what I see is that Naish have just made the job of people selling Naish distance board products harder, not easier, for 2013. They seem to be turning their back on (a) bigger guys, (b) weekend warriors, (c) ocean paddlers who paddle in less than ideal conditions, or live in densely populated areas. That's a sizeable section of the market.
I do recognise that Naish are doing a great job in 2012-13 of catering for light, super-elite ocean paddlers, and the flat water fraternity. It's just that I do not belong to either of those groups, nor do most of my friends, and so I am trying to make our voice heard in the hope that we are not completely forgotten in future years.
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Point taken - the 14' Glide has it's limits for sure and there seems to be a gap in the Naish range for the 100kg+ range of riders.
Maybe the sport is just getting too specialised and we should start considering Jim Terrels proposal of minimum widths and minimum weight - this will allow the manufacturers to have one specialised board and focus the rest of the effort on more user-friendly models.
And then try and agree on a favoured length - on here we have people wanting boards from 12' to 18ft and pretty much everything in between - if all demand was for 14's with a min width of 25" then manufacturers could focus on a 3 board range which would be more economical and sensical......and make importing less of a gamble...
But part of the charm of the sport is the diversity of conditions and users and preferences - so that probably won't happen....I'm sure Naish is listening and would expect obvious gaps in the line-up to be filled over time.
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Area10 said...
Peterp - you raise some interesting issues, so I'll deal with each in turn:
1. You are a Naish importer, so you have to defend your product. And you do that very effectively, so I applaud you. But the Naish Glide 14 is NOT stable enough for the average guy in the DW conditions we have round here. A friend of mine bought one and has had to sell it because it is too tippy to use in the conditions he bought it for. For the elite paddlers you paddle with, in the conditions you have in SA, maybe it is perfect. But the people I am trying to stick up for IS the weekend warrior (even though I am not one, many of my friends are) and/or the bigger guy (same), who usually cannot choose their conditions, and need a board that can cope with anything, and flatter him/herself. These people will outnumber the Kai Lennys of the world, so it is strange to me that Naish are not adding anything to the range in the 14ft range that is obviously aimed at this bigger group of people. The only people who can afford boards new these days, generally, are not people in their teens or early 20s.
2. I am NOT criticising Naish for adding elite-paddler-only boards to the range. I AM however criticising them for not adding a 14ft (or longer) equivalent of the Glide 12-6 x 30. In other words, a more stable version of the 27.25" 14ft Glide.
3. I am glad that you acknowledge the new 18fter to be a niche board. I am also NOT criticising Naish for bringing a long board out - indeed in an post somewhere or other a few months ago I specifically said I would like a 17ft or more flat water board from Naish. But what I AM criticising them for is prioritising such a niche board over a 15-16ft board (both flat water and ocean, ideally), which would appeal to a much broader range of people.
So, in summary, I am NOT criticising the boards specifically in this new range. They do look exciting - although not for me in the conditions I deal with most often.
But what I am very disappointed about is NOT to also see in their 2013 line-up the following:
1. A 14ft x 29" DW/ocean/expedition board.
2. A 15-16ft x 28" DW board.
3. A modified shape 17fter: the 17 is a great board, plenty long enough for most, and just could just have benefited from a couple of updates to make it more adaptable (e.g. fixed fin box) to a wider variety of conditions and uses.
Of course, the sample of replies to my posts on this forum will be skewed towards those involved with Naish and/or elite paddlers. They have a reason to bother to write, in a way that those potential customers who are passively agreeing with me at home do not. So there will always be more criticism of my points than support in a situation like this.
But that does not mean that there aren't more potential customers out there who are looking at the new range and thinking like me, rather than how Kai Lenny would view the range. Fortunately I am not associated with any brand or company, so I can call it exactly as I see it. And what I see is that Naish have just made the job of people selling Naish distance board products harder, not easier, for 2013. They seem to be turning their back on (a) bigger guys, (b) weekend warriors, (c) ocean paddlers who paddle in less than ideal conditions, or live in densely populated areas. That's a sizeable section of the market.
I do recognise that Naish are doing a great job in 2012-13 of catering for light, super-elite ocean paddlers, and the flat water fraternity. It's just that I do not belong to either of those groups, nor do most of my friends, and so I am trying to make our voice heard in the hope that we are not completely forgotten in future years.
Gee you put that well and you are 100% correct. My comment still stands!
Even worse if PeterP is the importer of Naish to SA that's even more deplorable and you should have outed yourself - poor form 
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PeterP said...
...if all demand was for 14's with a min width of 25" then manufacturers could focus on a 3 board range which would be more economical and sensical......and make importing less of a gamble...
Seems Fanatic are on board with that, for the forthcoming season.
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PeterP said...
Point taken - the 14' Glide has it's limits for sure and there seems to be a gap in the Naish range for the 100kg+ range of riders.
Maybe the sport is just getting too specialised and we should start considering Jim Terrels proposal of minimum widths and minimum weight - this will allow the manufacturers to have one specialised board and focus the rest of the effort on more user-friendly models.
And then try and agree on a favoured length - on here we have people wanting boards from 12' to 18ft and pretty much everything in between - if all demand was for 14's with a min width of 25" then manufacturers could focus on a 3 board range which would be more economical and sensical......and make importing less of a gamble...
But part of the charm of the sport is the diversity of conditions and users and preferences - so that probably won't happen....I'm sure Naish is listening and would expect obvious gaps in the line-up to be filled over time.
as someone mentioned to me the other day, naish seem to have narrow boards now for elite, the rest at 28" and a couple of 30" boards or so. the gap seems to be for the good paddler looking for say 25, 26 to 27.5 ish" and boards for the big guys.
as a matter of interest,looks like starboard are doing less board models but with 4? different widths for each model. could be just as hard deciding which one to get- ego could come into play ie i want the narrow one
fanatic look like having a range of widths in their board models for 2013 too
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In my humble opinion, the problem with the wider boards for bigger guys or less experienced paddlers is that they are often just stretched out versions of the boards developed for the elite greyhounds. Unless the designer considers each width as an independent board design and has different size test riders giving feedback, then it's just lip service.
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PeterP said...
Point taken - the 14' Glide has it's limits for sure and there seems to be a gap in the Naish range for the 100kg+ range of riders.
Thanks for your gracious reply. Yes, the Naish website quotes 104kg as the maximum weight for a person using any of the boards in this range. The narrower boards have a max. recommended rider weight of just 86kg.
The AVERAGE weight for a USA male is now at least 87kgs (191 lbs).
http://usgovinfo.about.com/od/healthcare/a/tallbutfat.htm
This means a huge proportion of the potential market base will be close to, or above, the limits of usability for this range of boards. The only boards they have over 27.25" in width are 12-6 in length, which are hardly ideal for the bigger guy.
It seems that many other manufacturers have cottoned on to this, but not Naish.
If you and your colleagues want to sell a decent volume of distance SUPs rather than just catering to an elite few, I'd suggest you get onto Naish and tell them to think this over. I think that would be a great thing for you to do and it sounds like there are many people here who would applaud you for it, me included.
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