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Author Planing Gybes-How long To Learn?
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NSW
809 Posts
Posted 27/4/2012, 9:17 am        Report
Right, I've worked out windsurfing has many challenging facets, and one that's stressing me a bit is planing gybes. How long did it / or should it take to pull them off with consistency- like 80 percent plus?? Currently I'm up to building good speed, get more on a slitghtly down wind run, adjust rear foot for the big power turn, keep all my speed through the arc (say a 20 metre carve), be in the right position for heading the other way, flip the sail around then Sail flips around fine, feet tangle, board points near verticle, total stall and the obligatory dunking Please tell me they're hard and every one takes ages to learn them
NSW
1028 Posts
Posted 27/4/2012, 9:36 am        Report
It depends on you, The more you try the better you will get. I still don't plain out of all my gybes and I've been windsurfing for 5 years. It's just a personal thing for me as I would rather tack then gybe as I'm way better at tacking. Get yourself the Guy Cribb Gybe dvd and that will sort you ouy, I don't think there is any other instructional dvd that does it better. They key is speed, You must go in at full tilt and keep a constant carve with a wide arc to keep speed. ....But that said I know of a kid from the ACT that carve gybed fully plaining on his second attempt, I think he was 7 at the time. Check out Guy Cribb....
NSW
6548 Posts
Posted 27/4/2012, 10:13 am        Report
A good tip I read was to enter the gybe on your quickest point of sail, going on a broad reach, and to exit on your quickest point of sail, a broad reach. If the board is stalling and tail sinking then you have too much weight at the back. Try to your old back foot forward close to the mast base as you go onto the new tack. This will centre your weight over the middle of the board and keep it flat. I'd recommend you try to gybe off the swell as it wraps into Trial Bay. This is best done in a NE seabreeze and a bigger swell but you could do it in pretty well any wind direction. Its really fun to do as you turn onto the face of the wave and then start surfing it in on the new tack, the sail doesn't have to give you any power so you can leisurely flip the sail when you are ready. Gybing is one of the most challenging aspects of windsurfing. If possible I'd recommend learning them in an shallow area where its not much of a pain to get going again.
NSW
809 Posts
Posted 27/4/2012, 10:17 am        Report
jh2703 said...
It depends on you, The more you try the better you will get. I still don't plain out of all my gybes and I've been windsurfing for 5 years. It's just a personal thing for me as I would rather tack then gybe as I'm way better at tacking. Get yourself the Guy Cribb Gybe dvd and that will sort you ouy, I don't think there is any other instructional dvd that does it better. They key is speed, You must go in at full tilt and keep a constant carve with a wide arc to keep speed. ....But that said I know of a kid from the ACT that carve gybed fully plaining on his second attempt, I think he was 7 at the time. Check out Guy Cribb....
Great clip! Realised a few vital errors I'm making in the first 20 seconds- like not switching stance before the sail spins around and not sliding my hand to the front off the boom before the sail flip. Hanging to practic them on Sunday. Cheers for that. PS- Can tack fine, pull off 90 plus percent, but just love seeing people plan with the water spraying out and full speed exits, looks sick when it's done like Guys does in the clip. PSS- I hate that 7 year old that pulled off a planing gybe second attempt.
NSW
809 Posts
Posted 27/4/2012, 10:29 am        Report
Mobydisc said...
A good tip I read was to enter the gybe on your quickest point of sail, going on a broad reach, and to exit on your quickest point of sail, a broad reach. If the board is stalling and tail sinking then you have too much weight at the back. Try to your old back foot forward close to the mast base as you go onto the new tack. This will centre your weight over the middle of the board and keep it flat. I'd recommend you try to gybe off the swell as it wraps into Trial Bay. This is best done in a NE seabreeze and a bigger swell but you could do it in pretty well any wind direction. Its really fun to do as you turn onto the face of the wave and then start surfing it in on the new tack, the sail doesn't have to give you any power so you can leisurely flip the sail when you are ready. Gybing is one of the most challenging aspects of windsurfing. If possible I'd recommend learning them in an shallow area where its not much of a pain to get going again.
I'm hearing you Moby. Those TB swells would be like ramps and keep me planing. Plus I'd like to tear the tops off them for sheer entertainment value THe time will come.. I'm sticking to the shallow spots alright, but I think I'll need some good flatwater for a good practice session. The bay chop and swells (at this stage) is making them even harder. Hopefully Sunday I'll give them a good shot on a nearby lake.
WA
3190 Posts
Posted 27/4/2012, 10:43 am        Report
I've been working really hard on gybes since before Christmas and haven't managed a planing one yet, but I think I'm close. Like you I've been able to tack for ages but gybing is another thing altogether, so don't feel too bad. A planing gybe takes a lot of coordination and timing, which takes a lot of practice unless you're a natural athlete, which I certainly am not. The thing which has helped me the most is dry land practice - sail on board minus fin - you can repeat all the moves at a speed you can handle until they become automatic. Watch instructional videos so you know what you should be doing, then practice. Really good for getting the footwork and hand change right. After the dry land practice sail between 2 points which are shallow enough to beach start if you fall off the gybe, far enough apart to get up some speed but not too far apart that you spend most of your time reaching. Some regular wind would help too...
NSW
1028 Posts
Posted 27/4/2012, 10:53 am        Report
PhilSWR said... PS- Can tack fine, pull off 90 plus percent, but just love seeing people plan with the water spraying out and full speed exits, looks sick when it's done like Guys does in the clip.
There's tacking and there's the "fast tack" or carve tack and I really enjoy doing them, when I pull of a good fast tack i find it just as rewarding as a good gybe. Here's a vid of me and it has a couple of carve tacks in there, They are good for keeping you upwind. You go in full tilt but come to a halt during the switch, I find it easier to carve tack in high winds then to gyde. If you screw up your gybe in high winds it's going to hurt.
NSW
4542 Posts
Posted 27/4/2012, 11:10 am        Report
Guy Cribb video +1 I used to be able to do planing gybes in the 90's although I don't think I got every gybe but I think the boards back then were heavier and didn't bounce as much. I used to just fly into the gybe , let the sail go and grab it as I came out. With the modern boards they seem to bounce on the chop and you need to get more technical & keep mastfoot pressure etc.. I started to relearn gybing using the guy cribb vidoe about 2 seasons ago when I got back into the sport & got a modern board. I had a lot of bad habits like not doing the step until after ( possible on little boards though) + overhand reach for the boom and not moving hand forward etc etc.. After 2 seasons I might get a few decent ones each session but generally in nice flat water and generally on my smaller board as I have kept some of my old habits & provided Im powered up enough I can switch feet on the exit. I had one session where I got 10 in a row but haven't been able to repeat it.. Things change all the time , a different board + sail , different chop etc..I still feel like a beginner some days.. I think if you can get out regularly , are fit and can get the same type of wind a few regularly it makes it a lot easier. Going several weeks with no wind or months without using a particular board makes it hard.. Look at the exit , bendz zee knees , pull down into the boom..Do as I say not what I do.. I think Cribby says you lose about 5kts going through the gybe ( thats him) so you have to be going warpspeed to enter..That's where oversheeting on the entry helps ( that's what I need to work on but its a bit difficult to practise in gusty winter winds where you rarely get going for long..
NSW
809 Posts
Posted 27/4/2012, 11:12 am        Report
Windxtasy said...
I've been working really hard on gybes since before Christmas and haven't managed a planing one yet, but I think I'm close. Like you I've been able to tack for ages but gybing is another thing altogether, so don't feel too bad. A planing gybe takes a lot of coordination and timing, which takes a lot of practice unless you're a natural athlete, which I certainly am not. The thing which has helped me the most is dry land practice - sail on board minus fin - you can repeat all the moves at a speed you can handle until they become automatic. Watch instructional videos so you know what you should be doing, then practice. Really good for getting the footwork and hand change right. After the dry land practice sail between 2 points which are shallow enough to beach start if you fall off the gybe, far enough apart to get up some speed but not too far apart that you spend most of your time reaching. Some regular wind would help too...
Thanx WindXtasy. I've seen a few dry land practice clips, thought about doing that but was too lazy to take the fin out, but you've inspired me- dry land run on Sunday. It's soo much harder trying to remember foot, hand and body work doing 25 knots on a bumpy ocean! Flat shallow lake, steady wind and short runs for me coming up. Will be able to work on my shakey water starts too. Now blow wind!! Cheers.
NSW
4542 Posts
Posted 27/4/2012, 11:13 am        Report
PhilSWR said...
Windxtasy said...
I've been working really hard on gybes since before Christmas and haven't managed a planing one yet, but I think I'm close. Like you I've been able to tack for ages but gybing is another thing altogether, so don't feel too bad. A planing gybe takes a lot of coordination and timing, which takes a lot of practice unless you're a natural athlete, which I certainly am not. The thing which has helped me the most is dry land practice - sail on board minus fin - you can repeat all the moves at a speed you can handle until they become automatic. Watch instructional videos so you know what you should be doing, then practice. Really good for getting the footwork and hand change right. After the dry land practice sail between 2 points which are shallow enough to beach start if you fall off the gybe, far enough apart to get up some speed but not too far apart that you spend most of your time reaching. Some regular wind would help too...
Thanx WindXtasy. I've seen a few dry land practice clips, thought about doing that but was too lazy to take the fin out, but you've inspired me- dry land run on Sunday. It's soo much harder trying to remember foot, hand and body work doing 25 knots on a bumpy ocean! Flat shallow lake, steady wind and short runs for me coming up. Will be able to work on my shakey water starts too. Now blow wind!! Cheers.
Now that's the hard bit..getting enough regular wind to get practise! Grr doesn't Guy cribb make it look SO easy!
NSW
809 Posts
Posted 27/4/2012, 11:18 am        Report
[quote) There's tacking and there's the "fast tack" or carve tack and I really enjoy doing them, when I pull of a good fast tack i find it just as rewarding as a good gybe. Here's a vid of me and it has a couple of carve tacks in there, They are good for keeping you upwind. You go in full tilt but come to a halt during the switch, I find it easier to carve tack in high winds then to gyde. If you screw up your gybe in high winds it's going to hurt.
Nice bit of footage! I can see what you mean by fast carving tacks. I've kinda been doing them- though not as smoothly- so I'm happy to see others do them too. Nice, warm, inviting lake, looks great. Good clip to watch in the middle of July... Funny, I can near smell those shags as they lift off in front of you...lol
WA
3190 Posts
Posted 27/4/2012, 11:24 am        Report
PhilSWR said...
Windxtasy said...
I've been working really hard on gybes since before Christmas and haven't managed a planing one yet, but I think I'm close. Like you I've been able to tack for ages but gybing is another thing altogether, so don't feel too bad. A planing gybe takes a lot of coordination and timing, which takes a lot of practice unless you're a natural athlete, which I certainly am not. The thing which has helped me the most is dry land practice - sail on board minus fin - you can repeat all the moves at a speed you can handle until they become automatic. Watch instructional videos so you know what you should be doing, then practice. Really good for getting the footwork and hand change right. After the dry land practice sail between 2 points which are shallow enough to beach start if you fall off the gybe, far enough apart to get up some speed but not too far apart that you spend most of your time reaching. Some regular wind would help too...
Thanx WindXtasy. I've seen a few dry land practice clips, thought about doing that but was too lazy to take the fin out, but you've inspired me- dry land run on Sunday. It's soo much harder trying to remember foot, hand and body work doing 25 knots on a bumpy ocean! Flat shallow lake, steady wind and short runs for me coming up. Will be able to work on my shakey water starts too. Now blow wind!! Cheers.
Glad you're feeling inspired! Make sure you put a board bag or towels under your board to protect the bottom, and if you have enough room to swing a sail in your yard at home don't limit your dry land practice to when you're at the beach. It's best for keeping the practice and muscle memory up between windy days. You'll be surprised how much energy 50 sail flips take too, so don't leave it all until your sailing day. My recommendation - do enough at home until it all becomes automatic, then when you get to the beach do 10 or so to get comfortable with it again, then go for it on the water.
WA
3190 Posts
Posted 27/4/2012, 11:25 am        Report
sboardcrazy said... Grr doesn't Guy cribb make it look SO easy!
Therein lies the problem. Experts make it LOOK easy. It isn't.
NSW
809 Posts
Posted 27/4/2012, 11:32 am        Report
sboardcrazy said...
Guy Cribb video +1 I used to be able to do planing gybes in the 90's although I don't think I got every gybe but I think the boards back then were heavier and didn't bounce as much. I used to just fly into the gybe , let the sail go and grab it as I came out. With the modern boards they seem to bounce on the chop and you need to get more technical & keep mastfoot pressure etc.. I started to relearn gybing using the guy cribb vidoe about 2 seasons ago when I got back into the sport & got a modern board. I had a lot of bad habits like not doing the step until after ( possible on little boards though) + overhand reach for the boom and not moving hand forward etc etc.. After 2 seasons I might get a few decent ones each session but generally in nice flat water and generally on my smaller board as I have kept some of my old habits & provided Im powered up enough I can switch feet on the exit. I had one session where I got 10 in a row but haven't been able to repeat it.. Things change all the time , a different board + sail , different chop etc..I still feel like a beginner some days.. I think if you can get out regularly , are fit and can get the same type of wind a few regularly it makes it a lot easier. Going several weeks with no wind or months without using a particular board makes it hard.. Look at the exit , bendz zee knees , pull down into the boom..Do as I say not what I do.. I think Cribby says you lose about 5kts going through the gybe ( thats him) so you have to be going warpspeed to enter..That's where oversheeting on the entry helps ( that's what I need to work on but its a bit difficult to practise in gusty winter winds where you rarely get going for long..
Im noticing a common theme to planing gybes- they're bloody hard and many seem to have trouble doing them consistently. So, I'm glad it's not just me finding planing gybes hard- verging on impossible. I've been trying to remember foot steps and hand positions etc, but all goes out the window at speed. Will do some dry land practice on the day like Winxtasy mentioned. I think my board, whilst a modern design, is fine for them, as it doesn't seem to bounce around much in even choppy water- it's really the pilot with problems. I'm sure it would be easier with a big, wide style of board. But I don't know, I only have the one board- it's an 116 lt F2 Stoke.
NSW
1028 Posts
Posted 27/4/2012, 11:41 am        Report
And just to make you feel better, Here's a clip of the 7 year old .......Check it out at about 2:55, Perfect carve gybe. And yes that is Kauli Seadi he's sailing with.
WA
3190 Posts
Posted 27/4/2012, 11:44 am        Report
PhilSWR said... I only have the one board- it's an 116 lt F2 Stoke.
Having only one board helps because different boards require a different magnitude of movement. With our inconsistent winds this summer I've been using my 85L one session then 111L the next. No problem adjusting for sailing, but the change takes a bit of adjustment for gybing.
NSW
809 Posts
Posted 27/4/2012, 11:56 am        Report
jh2703 said...
And just to make you feel better, Here's a clip of the 7 year old .......Check it out at about 2:55, Perfect carve gybe. And yes that is Kauli Seadi he's sailing with.
Oh, that's great, I'm so happy for him
WA
292 Posts
Posted 27/4/2012, 11:56 am        Report
PhilSWR said...
Realised a few vital errors I'm making in the first 20 seconds- like not switching stance before the sail spins around ...
You don't really have to switch stance at this point - I think it looks much more elegant to exit the gybe with reverse foot positions, and then switch around at your leisure. Some other tips: have enough speed, commit fully and keep even pressure on the rail, don't hang onto the boom too long - expect to have to balance on your own during the gybe (this is different to sailing in a straight line when you can use the sail and wind to maintain your upright body balance). Also, try to visualize the process before going asleep - this helps develop the motor memory.
TAS
514 Posts
Posted 27/4/2012, 12:16 pm        Report
A hint I picked up from the Guy Cribb video. I think the front foot position is vital to a good exit. I could do everything well except the exit, I kept falling off the plane. You must be able to use your sail to power out of the gybe, to do that you must be in the correct position or you will try to power up and just catapult. The thing I picked up from the video was to put my front foot along the board and not across it. A simple idea but what it does is rotate your upper body so that your whole body is facing the front of the board and in a good position to take the strain of the sail powering up. If you have done any martial arts the position would be what you would call a back-stance and is very strong when being pulled over from the front.
QLD
2011 Posts
Posted 27/4/2012, 12:28 pm        Report
Hey Phil, heaps of good advice here. I reckon one of the most difficult things you have in front of you is a lack of other sailors. Watching people in real life and trying to apply that would help no end. Wouldn't be a bad idea to try to get some video of yourself, then you can compare to other video posted on the net etc, or even post here for others to give some pointers. And don't forget, meny experts will tell you that a full plaining gybe is still of the most difficult manouvers in windsurfing.
SA
477 Posts
Posted 27/4/2012, 12:31 pm        Report
takes a long time to plane out of gybes even moderately consistently. devote time to practice. my tips on vital ingredients: 1. know your theory (imma a big fan of Cribby's Intuition video). 2. know where you're going wrong. get video or a friend spotting if it's not obvious. it's like a golf swing - a very intricate move that occurs in a heartbeat. a lot happens very quickly when you're on the board, but often watching from afar it's obvious where it's falling apart. 3. speed is your friend. come in fast if you want any chance of planing out. it all gets easier at pace. 4. flat water makes an enormous difference. planing gybes in lumps is really tricky. plan to gybe in the flattest stretch you can find.
QLD
1587 Posts
Posted 27/4/2012, 12:48 pm        Report
They are hard, but how long it takes depends on how often you practise them. The more gybes you do, the quicker you will get through the learning stage. You only need to sail 100-200m in one direction to get enough speed and gain a bit of distance upwind to do a gybe. I usually throw a few tacks in to keep upwind whenever required. It's pretty easy to do 100's of gybes a session this way, and you will get good quick! I got stuck in a bit of a learning rut not getting anywhere when I was starting, by cutting down the lengths of my runs, I found I was getting better a lot faster
NSW
809 Posts
Posted 27/4/2012, 12:52 pm        Report
Cool, all good info. Iceman- done a heap of martial arts (5 years, 4 days per week), so no what ya saying with the back stance and bracing. Front foot pointing forward, got it. Aus301- Yep, no crowds here, usually on my own, though I try to go places where other sail to cheak out what they're doing. Will line up some one for video duties in the next few trips. Won't post them on here, gotta retain some dignity Maybe when they look half like Cribbs. Trouses- been doing the screen play in my head- use to do the same with surfing- good confidence builder hey. And fine with the speed part, just making it stick right at that last complex flip sail, re-adjust feet part is what's doing me in Gonne be a busy Sunday morning!!
NSW
809 Posts
Posted 27/4/2012, 1:00 pm        Report
swoosh said...
They are hard, but how long it takes depends on how often you practise them. The more gybes you do, the quicker you will get through the learning stage. You only need to sail 100-200m in one direction to get enough speed and gain a bit of distance upwind to do a gybe. I usually throw a few tacks in to keep upwind whenever required. It's pretty easy to do 100's of gybes a session this way, and you will get good quick! I got stuck in a bit of a learning rut not getting anywhere when I was starting, by cutting down the lengths of my runs, I found I was getting better a lot faster
Swoosh, been doing a few short runs like you said- will do more next outing . Unwanted bonus was I got to practice waterstarts at each failed attempt. Near pulled one gybe off yesterday, just got over-powered right after I'd changed position, fliped the sail and was heading the other way. Gotta love being thrown over the front... I was so close to victory. Will try Icemans brace front foot stance.
NSW
6889 Posts
Posted 27/4/2012, 1:03 pm        Report
Three years. Flaaat water, a FreestyleWave and a powered up 5.5 - 6.5 wave sail makes it easiest, I think. ...another year to get one in the other direction.
VIC
779 Posts
Posted 27/4/2012, 1:45 pm        Report
d1 said... You don't really have to switch stance at this point - I think it looks much more
Yes I agree with the above, personally, when you are planing, it is easier to switch stance after the rig flip, doing this avoids having the mast end up behing you and you rounding up into the wind and dropping the sail into the water or the clew catching. Flipping first will promote you to lean more forward and into the turn and allows you to really "carve" through it. Learning it this way will lead you into duck gybes.
QLD
272 Posts
Posted 27/4/2012, 2:11 pm        Report
im only just starting to figure them out but i think the best thing i found is its really hard to come off the plane when you enter at 30 knots , you can do heaps wrong and it just keeps planing also at first i kept trying to do 180 degree turns but if i enter and exit bearing off its much easier .
WA
3749 Posts
Posted 27/4/2012, 2:32 pm        Report
Big tip from Guy Cribb. Calculate how long it takes you to attempt or try a gybe. About 3-5 seconds, maybe a bit longer. Now how many you can try in a session, maybe 30-40 So that's less than three minutes training on gybes a session. So the tip is do as much as you can on shore, do it til you drop, get somebody to watch you and correct as you go. Then put into practice
WA
823 Posts
Posted 27/4/2012, 3:06 pm        Report
1. buy Guy Cribb's DVD, really good 2. use light winds as an opportunity - I got great advances from light wind practice because you have more time to think 3. you can't beat flat water with a steady breeze - look at Cribby's favourite gybe lesson location
NSW
4542 Posts
Posted 27/4/2012, 4:25 pm        Report
PhilSWR said...
sboardcrazy said...
Guy Cribb video +1 I used to be able to do planing gybes in the 90's although I don't think I got every gybe but I think the boards back then were heavier and didn't bounce as much. I used to just fly into the gybe , let the sail go and grab it as I came out. With the modern boards they seem to bounce on the chop and you need to get more technical & keep mastfoot pressure etc.. I started to relearn gybing using the guy cribb vidoe about 2 seasons ago when I got back into the sport & got a modern board. I had a lot of bad habits like not doing the step until after ( possible on little boards though) + overhand reach for the boom and not moving hand forward etc etc.. After 2 seasons I might get a few decent ones each session but generally in nice flat water and generally on my smaller board as I have kept some of my old habits & provided Im powered up enough I can switch feet on the exit. I had one session where I got 10 in a row but haven't been able to repeat it.. Things change all the time , a different board + sail , different chop etc..I still feel like a beginner some days.. I think if you can get out regularly , are fit and can get the same type of wind a few regularly it makes it a lot easier. Going several weeks with no wind or months without using a particular board makes it hard.. Look at the exit , bendz zee knees , pull down into the boom..Do as I say not what I do.. I think Cribby says you lose about 5kts going through the gybe ( thats him) so you have to be going warpspeed to enter..That's where oversheeting on the entry helps ( that's what I need to work on but its a bit difficult to practise in gusty winter winds where you rarely get going for long..
Im noticing a common theme to planing gybes- they're bloody hard and many seem to have trouble doing them consistently. So, I'm glad it's not just me finding planing gybes hard- verging on impossible. I've been trying to remember foot steps and hand positions etc, but all goes out the window at speed. Will do some dry land practice on the day like Winxtasy mentioned. I think my board, whilst a modern design, is fine for them, as it doesn't seem to bounce around much in even choppy water- it's really the pilot with problems. I'm sure it would be easier with a big, wide style of board. But I don't know, I only have the one board- it's an 116 lt F2 Stoke.
Cribby has 3 stages.. dry land practise of footchange & rig flip until you can do them in your sleep (must admit I've done a bit but not as much as I should) Light wind practise on a floaty board.I go out in 5 -10kts & practise my gybes..I need to practise tacks too but that means getting wet..grr You cant practise the high speed entry & oversheeting etc in lightwind but the footchange & rig flip you can.. Then higher wind practise ..
SA
685 Posts
Posted 27/4/2012, 5:30 pm        Report
Phil I've been sailing 3 years now. Like everything in windsurfing, equipment, rigging and conditions will make it, no matter how good your technique is. To answer your question. I was 'flarve gybing' after about a year. I don't sail in the best conditions. On the big gear (100l board) I step gybe, and I might get one planing exit for the entire session (2-5 hours).. and that is only due to timing of a wave/chop. On the small gear (85l board - the board on my avatar), I mostly strap-to-strap gybe, and my success rate is much higher 20% success rate. This requires local knowledge of the conditions to do this. I reckon gybing big boards is very difficult IMO. Me and my mates have been using Pete Harts Gybe Clinic (mid 80's). If you can survive the Miami Vice style hair dooes and sun glasses, it's good advice. I am now getting keened up to do duck gybes. .. but it comes down to conditions to learn new stuff and the willingess to accept damaging gear. I am sick to death of repairing my boards. Might have to wait until the seabreezes again when I can sail 5 times a week.
 
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