I'm really fed up with the standard vent plug.
Most of you know why, forget to do it up, forget to undo it, sand gets in and stuffs the seal up or O ring splits and water gets in, leave it undone on the roof racks and it's gone on the drive home.
Yea I know there are solutions to these problems, but why should we have them when there's a simple alternative, I think Carbon Art has it right, goretex vents are the obvious answer, they breath air, but don't pass water.
I rang goretex last month and they sent me some samples. I've converted two of my old boards with them.
This is Hardy's old Thommen, fairly easy job, as the old vent was in the mastrack. I expanded the upper hole with a router, (free hand, that's why it's not a good circle, but a template would fix this). then drilled out the old thread and retapped it. Routed surface wasn't completely smooth so I fitted the vent with a smear of sylastic.
This is my speed board, I'd originally used an individual vent, when I tried to route it out, I found that it's too small to convert. I cut right thru to the foam, so I used the above bolt to mould a housing into the hole the router made. this method is fine for a new board, (or one you have an exact paint match for). But hard to get a good finish on a nice new board.
Unfortunately goretex don't have a housing for the vent, it's designed to mount on a flat panel.
Goretex say Bennett surfboards have housings, I emailed them Monday, but haven't heard back.
So don't know what they cost or what they look like.
Keef has a method that uses a plumbing fitting, he sylastics the vent in to the fitting, tests it then glues into board.
Goretex charge $12.95 per vent, but they have a minimum order of 40.
Gortex say Bennett boards have them for individual sale, but I don't know what they charge.
My thoughts are, if enough people near Perth are interested we could buy 40 between us.
If that's happens I'll continue to investigate a suitable housing.
I don't want them. Sorry to rain on ya parade but IMHO eventually the goretex will fail (split) and you may not know, so water gets in eventually. I figure a screw with a good condition o-ring is simple as a bird's bum and can't fail, ever.
Once you are used to having to do it up
I don't have a problem with Cobra style plugs, I run a triangle file around the thread once every 12 - 18 months even thought it doesn't really need it, and replace the O-ring every season (hardware has them for about 10c each).
Mark, Have you ever managed to post recently without scoring a red thumb??????
There's no mechanical wear on it, so shouldn't split unless there's huge pressure on it.
I have heard a rumour that Solomon boards leak water thru their vent, but I not sure if it's goretex or not.
These vents do unscrew, so it's possible to check them every year or so.
Vent in plastic bucket full of water, air can be blown thru from bottom but no water comes out.
Well if you end up ordering a few, I'll be happy to give you $12.95 or so for one. Sounds like it could be worth trying..
i was interested in this too a couple of years ago a waveski manufacturer website i came across at the time said they changed from using goretex vents to plain vent plugs because of sand attaching itself to the goretex material and the tiny movement of the grains of sand cause enough abrasion to leak within 12 months of use??
anyways, carbon art seem to be doing ok with it. are there any carbon art board owners out there with leaky plugs, even after a couple of years of use?
why doesn't someone make a goretex plug that fits in a normal vent plug? Obviously there is probably a tiny bit o design work to be done, but if you mass produced it there is absolutely no reason why everyone shouldn't be using one.
as for the lifespan issues, just replace it once a year, $12/year is easily worth the convenience.
Swoosh, using same logic I see no reason to change, 30c a year to perform preventative maintenance on 3 boards. If it was $30 I'd be more inclined to let it wait
I still think a breathable membrane is more likely to fail than good old stainless steel and a rubber o-ring.
Well I think the main reason is that a goretex plug that you only have to remove/replace only once a year prevents those moments where you are halfway through the break, and then realise you forgot to put your vent plug in. From what many people have said I think a few $$$ is well worth the peace of mind.
End of the day, I agree with you, I have never had an issue with the vent plug sailing. I did lose it once when it rolled off my board and fell on the lawn, grass hadn't been cut for weeks and I spent 40 minutes on my hands and knees trying to find it before borrowing my neighbours metal detector and finding it in 15 seconds flat.
But I can see how a goretex plug is probably a better solution for a lot of people.
p.s. I green thumbed you to neutralize your red thumb stalker, that guy is fast!
I presume this is the same gore-tex that they make rainwear out of. If I used my bushwalking jacket out fishing or big-boat sailing I always washed it in fresh water, as I was under the impression that salt clogged the tiny holes that allowed water vapour to escape but not let water in. This could have been based on bad theory though?
I don't know that I would trust a Gortex vent not to let water in.
Gortex works on jackets etc because there is zero pressure difference from one side to the other. But with a board vent there can be a relatively high pressure difference from inside to outside when you drop a hot board into cold water. Probably up to 3 or 4 psi.
I agree the water would not rush in like it would with no vent plug but I think there would be a small leakage of water over an hour or three.
(Just what I think. I could be wrong.)
you could always adapt a pressure release valve off a hot water service to replace a normal srew type valve
Thanks every body for your input on this, the more the better.
Re pressure, I've had a small head of water, about 100mm, on the vent for several days with no sign of leakage. But that's probably not as much pressure as a board could have on it, taking into account negative internal pressure and submersion in a big wipe out. I'll have a go with more pressure and see what happens.
Sand abrasion is a possibility I guess, but the vent does have a fairly restricted aperture protecting the goretex.
Salt sealing the gaps in the cloth, needs to be investigated.
Just thinking about it though, seems to me it would only block the vent breathing in, when it breaths out it should blow the salt away.
I did suggest to goretex they'd have an instant market for a vent with a standard windsurfing thread, but they weren't interested. The other problem is the head is wider than a normal plug, as it contains the goretex, so even if the threads are the same, it's not going to work unless you can expand the top recess.
The vents Bert Burghers made for his Sunova boards were quite good, they used a rubber diaphragm over a small hole, you only had to crack the screw a smidgen and it could breath out, but negative pressure, sucked the diaphragm against the hole. I have these in 2 of my boards, I added a thin slice of sponge rubber between diaphragm and screw, to act as a spring. Over the years they have worked very well.
Haven,t had any problems with the CA plug and the Pit sand is very very fine,great for jambing 2 piece masts The best plug i,ve used is the AB one,1 self tapper into a plastic plug.It always blows air out when i undo it after each session
i'm a bit sceptical about the extremes
and in the past some humans i have known have had a pub lunch with the bungs out in 40 degree heat in board bags on the roof of their car.
then rigged up and shoved the bungs in and sailed the boards in cool water and viola....fully sunken board bottom and a twisted shape which was a result of the superheated epoxy being soft before being plunged into the water.
if the goretex plug is submerged in that situation e.g. waterstarting what would enter the core to rectify the pressure imbalance?
false sense of security for the ordinary man, but a pain in the arse for manufacturers down the track. who knows!
footnote....my ripcurl windseries steamer with goretex arms from the eighties delaminated within the year and my goretex redwing hiking boots from a few years back leak bad.
Keef, I think there's one problem with water in the board, it appears the vent won't breath out if it's wet inside.
I read in the goretex literature something about the vent having to be the right way round, so the other day I put the vent into my plastic bucket back to front.
It still doesn't pass water, but today it doesn't want to pass air in either direction!!!!!!!!
I'll leave it in the sun tomorrow and see what happens, but I must admit I'm turning off the idea, not breathing out if the inside is wet, doesn't seem like a good thing.
mmmmmmmmmmmmmm sounds interesting decrep trust you to find theses things out ill soke one overnight and see what happens , you know on there website they say that it will release trapped moisture
Keef
I was not being negative (I think?) I was just saying that the existing sytem works fine and costs 10c each year to service as opposed to $12 to service.
Plus, when you think of all the things that can clog micoscopic pores in goretex I won't be the first to test it.
No I just had it upside down in my test bucket with about 100mm of water on top. (hole in bottom of bucket with vent in the hole). I'd tried it earlier with it the right way up in the bucket, and I could blow bubbles into the water thru the vent. But after taking the vent out of the bucket this time, can't blow.
So the only contamination I can think of is my spit!
The water here is high in lime content though, the kettle gets scaled up fairly quick.
I was in the process of making a test rig where I can increase the pressure to see if I can get it to leak.
decrepit theres no need for alarm,the vent only stop's breathing when totally saturated or emersed in water , and it works fine when its damp, as in normal conditions if there was moisture in a board , if the board had that much water to stop the vent from breathing it would have to sink
As a skier, I've been fed the marketing hype of goretex for years (decades!!). One thing they always pushed was that the fabric could breathe - not just air, but water vapour (from a sweaty skier). I would imagine that if there was any water in a board, it would heat up and turn to water vapour, then the moisture should be able to escape through the vent.
Having said that, I still get wet skiing in the rain. I would have a hard time trusting goretex...
The biggest problem with gore-tex as rainwear is that for it to be able to "breathe", the user must be wearing breathable layers of clothing underneath the gore-tex, otherwise your sweat turned water vapour never even gets to the gore-tex.
I have 3 boards with the gortex vents fitted
none of them are full of water
none have delamed(sometimes it can get hot here as well!)
they are all over 1 yr old one is 2 and a half years old
with no noticeable sign of leakage (if water can get in then it should be able to get out
as well?) there is no sign of salt crusting.
none of the boards have ever seen freshwater.
I reckon if there where issues the manufacturer would of changed?
This may sound a little simplistic and I don't mean to sound arragant,
I leave all vents done up all the time, I don't store boards in the sun or car ever, I do not fly, I never have to worry if have I done up the vent before sailing. I still replace O ring 12-18 months, if I remember.
I have not had any problems (now patting my wooden head).