I've just read through this entire log conversation , thinking to my self how funny it was , and that andrash is obviously an idiot or trolling 'cause his point was so pointless!
Fly your kite, demo your kite, if it handles the conditions then that's the size you want!! How simple could it be.
I was then gonna mention how I was flying my 8m Rally in 25+ knots, then immediatley jumped onto my 7m Waroo (which I'd flown for 3 seasons before giving to my mate)
I was having an awesome session on my 8 , and was then completely overpowered on the 7. I had the depower pulled all the way in, my harness was being pulled up into my ribcage, I couldn't hold any kind of an edge down, and I gave up and landed the thing after about 15mins!
My point was gonna be that different kites handle differently, so demo what you like and use your common sense!
But then , like a cold chill running down my spine I realised that maybe Andrash is right (gulp)
An 8m from one manufacturer SHOULDN'T produce less pull than a 7m from another!!!
And a solution:
Andrash IS right. but kite sizing is obviously complicated, so what we really need in this world of deltas c's, sle's, hybrids, flats, bows etc is a POWER NUMBER printed on the side of your kite!!! not a metre number.
Set up some kind of international standard where a kite is launched in a wind tunnel kind arrangement in a given wind strength (say 20 knots) and how much pull it produces is measured.
AND THIS IS THE NUMBER ON THE SIDE OF YOUR KITE
oh my god, I'm a genius...I'm gonna have to go and have a lie down.
.
.
) On the 13 I was nicely lit - not overpowered, on the 12 I was looping the kite and generally laughing my head of with it - my mate had stopped kiting and was waiting for me to come get him and swap cause he was waaaay overpowered and bricking it. [}:)] (He was a lot lighter than me) 
I am sure we have some geniuses amongst us (I wont start naming them just now), but I don't think it takes a genius to compare two similar shape kites by knowing
Surface area
Projected area
Aspect ratio
Just as with cars, we would not compare a 4x4 with a sport car just because they have the same size engine, we would not compare a C kite with a low aspect wave kite just because they have similar surface area. Obviously, they are for different purposes.
However, we do want to compare similar shape / style kites by their specifications. Simply because we cannot always demo them side by side to compare, and those who live out of the major cities cannot demo at all.
All what it takes is for the manufacturers to include HONESTY and OPENNESS into their marketing strategy.
Last few days I compared an 8m kite of a major brand to my 9 m Rev. They were very similar shape and, guess what, almost identical in size. The 8m wave kite of the same brand, on the other hand, was only marginally larger than my 6m RPM, again quite similar shape. Both called 8m by their manufacturer in spite of the fact that there was approximately 2m difference between the two. The designer obviously was / is aware of this, because the exact figure is shown on their design software. So there is absolutely no excuse for this. This is simply deceiving customers for marketing purposes. Or in one word: CHEATING.
Notice that sizing never includes the word 'metre' anymore?
Sizes are only relevant to different sizes in the same model.
Just because it says 8 doesn't mean it's an 8m kite.
8m is 8m and a lie is a lie.
When I started kiting 11 years ago, Wipika (I think) gave the projected area, and Naish and Cabrinah (not sure about the details) gave the surface area as measures, and they also gave the aspect ratio for each sizes. All these details disappeared by now and replaced with what? with HYPE.
A question to those who are trying to cover for the lies of the manufacturers. Would you buy a sport car if the manufacturer, who claims it is the best car of the world, doesn't even tell you the size of the engine, or, worst of all, lies about it? And when you question it, the dealer tells you "there are so many factors contribute in the performance of a car, the size of the engine is really irrelevant any more." Would you buy this?....would you?.... really
Obviously, it is not that different for kite surfing.
CUT THE HYPE, GIVE US THE FACTS.
Trust, we are intelligent enough to work out the rest.
(manufacturers and distributors, you are quiet, but I know you are reading this)
^^^^
Thanks, mate... highly appreciated...
I hope it's an ice-breaker... and we will see other brands show their cards too.
Hope it brings you much joy Andrash!!
Just looks like another bloody spreadsheet to me and thats the last thing I need.
Both of these stats are critically important for punters to assess the real power producing area as opposed to surface area. But projected area will always be somewhat arbitary whereas surface area can accurate down to sq mm's.
AND ps......
about 5 years ago 2 of my mates bought new 12M kites of different brands. We all noticed an apparent big difference in size. Layed out together one 12M was significantly bigger in all directions than other other 12M and - guess what - the smaller kite delivered noticably more power than the bigger one. 
Tested and agreed by numerous riders.
This size thing is nothing new - but not getting any less of a complication.
A kite is a wing it's shape delivers uplift. My quiver is a 9.5m Kahoona V3, 8m 2010 RPM and a 5m 2007 Waroo, I fly them all on a 17" slingshot bar. There is no overlap. Projected area is uplift, simple. Get a 10 RPM and a 12 RPM and lay them on top, no wonder theres only 1-2 knots more bottom end on the 12. Apparent wind is what an experienced kiter uses, but material equals drag.
Andrash has brought up a real, thoughtful topic, sure demo in the wind conditions you are used to if you can, but I agree its confusing marketing Those graphs are for a 80kg rider, as the IKO suggesteded in the past go one size up or down for every 10kg added or taken away??? Now Im confused?
The idea of a wind tunnel to give an accurate reading of static pull, is good, but it needs to be travelling at speed. Pythagoras theorem, I tired to forget at high school
Just my last word on this thread... (have I said that already?)
This thread has served its purpose to bring awareness to the manipulation with the kite sizes by some manufacturers. Obviously, we cannot expect some brands to come out with the details now, and by that admit that they were misleading us for marketing purposes. I believe and hope though, that there will be more and more brands which provide the details with their kites (as they did in the past), and by that, we can quickly sort out which brands are cheating. Until then, just keep comparing, demoing and kiting... and if the conditions are like they were today, there is no reason to stop smiling........ perhaps the scotch helps a bit too.....
Core of the issue seems to be how much you want to know. Seeing two polarised points of view in the forum here - those that want to know all the details, and those that don't mind as long as it works.
That's a personal preference.
What happens if you approach the companies directly and say you are interested in some technical details about the design of their wing? They should be able to put you on to a boffin who can tell you more than you can possibly want to know.
I would be quite surprised if you were to meet any real resistance - but I think most people would be bored, and kiting companies don't want to be associated with being a "boring" brand.
Thems the breaks...
I think thats a great chart switch produce. I'm guessing the majority of kite companies believe the 'wind chart' is all the punters need to know. It surprises me the amount of major brand kite surf boards that only list a length and ignore all the other dimensions in advertising.
