Forums > Land Yacht Sailing General

How to deal with no wind.

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Created by Chook2 > 9 months ago, 5 Mar 2012
Arjay
VIC, 267 posts
9 Mar 2012 9:45PM
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I was there for this one!

Chook2
WA, 1244 posts
9 Mar 2012 7:10PM
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Wow That is great!!!!! Arjay

Thanks Col for those ideas.

I was very lucky. After lunch a mate called and when I told him about my hassle, he said there was an old abandon car in the bush near his house.
Slipped over there and got a condenser, a few spare relays (that only one was suitable, it needs an 87a "Normally closed terminal") and the centre seat belt out of the back seat for a land yacht.
Rang the shire ranger and arranged to have it crushed, as the mobile car crusher is in town. So a good result.


I followed this link and made up a buzz coil and it works a treat.

www.oldengine.org/members/kerogas/bozzcoil/index.html

Throws a non-stop spark about 25mm, from the spark plug electrode to an earth.
Brilliant !!!!!!


Here's one sure way to rig up a quick and easy spark coil to run old engine ignitions, keep dogs out of your trash or test the strength of one's continence. The best part is that it is made of ordinary junk car fodder - namely a coil and condenser (preferably one with internal resistor) and a NO/NC Bosch relay found in clusters under late model car hoods! (If you like, you can add a 0.5 to 1 mfd capacitor in series with a 500 to 1000 ohm resistor across the breaking points of the relay (30 & 87a) and they will last much longer).

Just got to make a box to house the ignition, as it tends to bite a bit if not handled carefully.

Onwards on upwards!!!!

Arjay
VIC, 267 posts
10 Mar 2012 2:52PM
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I remember the pilot saying something like, "...I am a bit worried about the litres of kerosene between my legs!"

nebbian
WA, 6277 posts
10 Mar 2012 12:27PM
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This:

Chook2 said...
(If you like, you can add a 0.5 to 1 mfd capacitor in series with a 500 to 1000 ohm resistor across the breaking points of the relay (30 & 87a) and they will last much longer).


is a very good idea, otherwise you get big sparks across the terminals of the relay inside the housing, which you can't see, and destroys the contacts pretty quickly.

Chook2
WA, 1244 posts
10 Mar 2012 1:25PM
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Great Nebbian, saw your post and I have just purchased them.

8 cents for the resistor and 17 cents for the capacitor. Everything else I have scrounged.
Geez, I can't carry on outlaying money like this, willy nilly.

Question; There is an arrow on the side of the capacitor.

Do you know which way round the capacitor would go?
Arrow on the capacitor to the centre/top, terminal on the relay #30, or should it face 87a the horizontal terminal.

Cheers

nebbian
WA, 6277 posts
10 Mar 2012 2:52PM
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Heya Chook,

Geez it's been a while since I've dealt with this sort of stuff, had to go into the shed to double check one of my caps!

Arrow should point to the negative terminal, ie, terminal 30 on your diagram.

You might notice that the buzzing slows down a bit when you connect the cap and resistor, this is normal, the amount depends on the sizes of the resistor and cap. It might not be enough to notice. Also make sure that your cap is at least a 16V capacitor.

Chook2
WA, 1244 posts
10 Mar 2012 3:06PM
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AWESOME !!!!!!

Thankyou kindly for that. I'll check the voltage.


"...I am a bit worried about the litres of kerosene between my legs!"


Hmmmm......... I gotta be carefull.
Could end up with "Irritable Bowel Syndrome"

Chook2
WA, 1244 posts
10 Mar 2012 4:17PM
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We have ignition !!!!!! Well spark anyway.[}:)]

Your a champ, Nebbian. It stopped the fireworks inside of the relay



Nice blue arc from the end of the plug.

The white control box (that I'll mount the components in) is from the old CSBP fertilizer works, that was pulled down years ago.

Now onto building the test bench. I nicked a broken desk from school to give me a head start.

nebbian
WA, 6277 posts
10 Mar 2012 7:42PM
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Wow looking good there Chook!

That spark must be pretty impressive to be able to catch it on a camera...

Can't wait to see your completed jet in action

sn
WA, 2775 posts
10 Mar 2012 10:19PM
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I reckon the ultimate in cool would be a kauffman starter for the pulsejet, pity it would probably be too hard to do though-there are a few technical hurdles in the way with it being a bit different to a piston or turbine engine.

Buzz coil is much more practical for the job,

(I just like the idea of starting a jet with a shotgun shell)

stephen

Chook2
WA, 1244 posts
11 Mar 2012 12:04AM
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That spark must be pretty impressive to be able to catch it on a camera...


No, it is one continues spark. The relay just buzzes as it opens and closes extremely fast to collapse the windings in the coil and produce the spark.
A great little design.

(I just like the idea of starting a jet with a shotgun shell)


If it doesn't work, it could well be the way this jet ends. Just like Myth Busters eh?
So glad you explained a kauffman starter. I didn't know that is what it's called.
Dad has a Fowler Track Marshall dozer, that starts with a 12 gauge blank and some rice paper.

sn
WA, 2775 posts
11 Mar 2012 11:06AM
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kauffman (not sure if I spelt it right) starters were common on a lot of old tractors, also on aircraft engines, radials and V types.
Our canberra bombers had kauffman starting for thier turbines- not sure how it worked on them though.

The original "Flight of the Pheonix" movie gave a good demonstration of the system on a radial.

Years ago, I knew a bloke with an antique tractor- cant remember the make, part of the starting procedure was lighting a fire under the engine!

stephen

Chook2
WA, 1244 posts
11 Mar 2012 12:08PM
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Yes, my youngest brother has restored a Lanz Bulldog like this.





This is the same model dozer my Dad has restored. You can see the guy put the 12 gauge shell in the top and hit the pin to fire it.
I reload the shells for him and I have to use a mixture of very slow burning rifle powder and as much cordite as possible with a very healthy dose of "dry rice baby food powder". The paper in the bottom along with the incendries in the charge keeps the fire lit for several combustions, till it warms up.
It's a real crowd pleaser when he displays it.


Chook2
WA, 1244 posts
14 Mar 2012 9:49PM
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It lives.

Geeez..............


The dogs have just stopped barking and the test run was 2 hours ago.
My hens won't lay for weeks and all my neighbours turned up within 30 seconds of it firing.
A mate rang me to say he heard it above his TV, from 2 and a 1/2 kilometres away.
To say I'm happy is an understatement.[}:)]

This is 20 seconds into its very first run.
Actually it was after my son landed again, after it fired and scarred the hell out of him.
Not what he expected. I had talked it down to get him to film it with my phone.



It is pretty hungry and requires a LOT of gas. Had to remove the regulator from the cylinder and the tap is set at about 2 turns on, when it's running.
It stopped after about 2 minutes as the gas line had iced up.

I fired it up for a second time as no one was going home till they had seen it run.

Just need a good video now, as my phone has trouble handling the jets frequency.

The tailpipe is pretty close to the right length.
I'll cut just 3mm off it, before its next run.

I need to sort out a better way of controlling the gas flow. The tap on the bottle is a bit coarse on its adjustment. When it flames out with a rich mixture and reignites it make the ground shake.

Ahhh. I'm over the moon.

aus230
WA, 1659 posts
14 Mar 2012 10:28PM
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Dam the Lanz brings back memories, I did a season on one fallowing plowing and seeding in Morawa when I was 17 teen.
I remember a sales man coming to the farm trying to sell new tractor's (Nuffield I think) the boss said he would buy one if it could out pull the lanze.
He had some salt encrusted land behind the house, He knocked the pins out of the plow and the old Lanze hardly missed a beat going through. The new one did not have the grunt to get through.

I have always hoped to see one running again at a show.

Cheers
Vic

gibberjoe
SA, 956 posts
15 Mar 2012 6:27AM
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Geeeeeezzz, Chook, youve' started something there.....

Red hot , throbbing, not bad for an Oldie..........

nebbian
WA, 6277 posts
15 Mar 2012 9:05AM
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That is truly awe-inspiring, thanks for posting the pic

Do you have any idea of the amount of thrust it was generating?

I suppose you wouldn't want to put your hand in the jetstream to feel the breeze

Chook2
WA, 1244 posts
15 Mar 2012 5:46PM
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Well got home from being called into work.
I went to go over to the shed.
I reckon our dog would have bitten me, had I gone any closer.

The Jet and the wife have now cooled down and the neighbourhood is slowly returning to normal.

I can't work out how to convert the vid off the phone to here.
So I will get a video camera and post it ASAP, guys.
Don't hold your breath though.

Not sure about the thrust, but a 2 mtr blue flame out the back and a small 200mm one out the inlet. Pokes out some heat.

sn
WA, 2775 posts
15 Mar 2012 6:36PM
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hey Chook,

Any chance your neighbours might be selling up soon?, I think life would be much more funner in Esperance than here.

stephen.

landyacht
WA, 5921 posts
15 Mar 2012 7:56PM
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youd better start saving your coin for THE DECIBEL TAX

Test pilot 1
WA, 1430 posts
16 Mar 2012 5:59PM
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Chook2 said...

Well got home from being called into work.
I went to go over to the shed.
I reckon our dog would have bitten me, had I gone any closer.

The Jet and the wife have now cooled down and the neighbourhood is slowly returning to normal.

I can't work out how to convert the vid off the phone to here.
So I will get a video camera and post it ASAP, guys.
Don't hold your breath though.

Not sure about the thrust, but a 2 mtr blue flame out the back and a small 200mm one out the inlet. Pokes out some heat.

So your'e saying it would make a damn fine heater for those cold quiet winter nights[}:)]

Chook2
WA, 1244 posts
16 Mar 2012 7:35PM
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Yeh Wayne.. [}:)]

I wouldn't have that hassle of my wife in my ear either.

I've got one of those old diesel upright "woofer heaters" (that burn on the surface of the fuel in the 20 ltr bottom tank), in the shed.
It's not even close to being in the same heating league, as the jet.

My laser temperature gun, just topped out at "800 degrees C and read, ERROR" very early on in the test run.

I used 1.55 mm galv sheet to make the 2 cones and end cap for the spark plug.
It flaked all the galv off them on the first run and melted the nylon inserts out of all the nyloc nuts holding it down..

sn
WA, 2775 posts
16 Mar 2012 7:56PM
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Upsize and multiply, Chook!

I plan on being at Lefroy later this year- and need to be jammed between a pair of these babies (need one each side to cook me evenly)

so..........one on each rear axle should do it,
gas bottle strapped onto the mast step with cocky weld (of course)

If these wont work- I suppose I could make do with a pair of decent sized valved pulse jets

stephen

gibberjoe
SA, 956 posts
18 Mar 2012 12:47PM
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starting engines in the winter, had a demo one day with a diesel fergy that was

to say the least tempremental.....no spray in additive, bloke took off his wollen

sock and placed it over the air intake.....cranked up nicely, one to remember.

edit ...in need of a bigger spark? use a button, cut spark plug lead and wire dizzy

end to two button holes on one side. with spark plug end wire to other two holes

spark will jump gap and increase in size and power as it does...can help .

Chook2
WA, 1244 posts
18 Mar 2012 6:18PM
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Thanks for that gibberjoe.
The system I have built, seems to be holding up, but hasn't done a lot of work yet.

Upsize and multiply, Chook!


The problem with up sizing is the material it's built from, wall thickness has to be increased to stop it imploding when white hot. The internal vacume caused by the exhaust gas exiting at over 500kmh each pulse while white hot, causes them to suck flat with atmospheric pressure.





A bigger one requires a wall thickness of 2.9mm sheet. Would weigh a heap.


I walked into the shed with a mate and within seconds, received this sms text.
Yr packed bag will b on the doorstep if u even think about firing up that rocket.
The management!!


Guess I'm grounded eh????[}:)]


gibberjoe
SA, 956 posts
18 Mar 2012 9:04PM
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" THAT ROCKET "......well really, that rocket has ceased to be and

modifications will make it " THIS ROCKET " ...sometimes management

just doe's not understand and because of changes in life has a cloudy concept

Now this thread is being watched by many MEN world wide already there are

contingency plans afoot I have it from a reliable sourse that Lake Lefroy,

could be the centre of the universe later this year Virgin Galatic is a word i

hear. This could be the start of something big...REAL BIG.....

sn
WA, 2775 posts
18 Mar 2012 9:01PM
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Methinks Chook needs a testing range about 2.5 km from the boss


stephen

Test pilot 1
WA, 1430 posts
19 Mar 2012 3:03AM
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Yr packed bag will b on the doorstep if u even think about firing up that rocket.
The management!!

Of course you did not acknowledge that you received the text[}:)]

gibberjoe
SA, 956 posts
19 Mar 2012 3:29PM
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Chook .....using the same thickness materials, minus the gal, as it could cause

unwanted gasses in your burn ? but if you welded some fins, like a motor bike

head, say six around circumfurence, maby 25mm high and for the lenght of the

box, this would reinforce the structure. More better, add to that secondary

circular skin similar looking to truck exhaust no burny shield. maybe help.

There must be a sale down in hesprence shops for middle management to

attend to while you fire up agen....remember for better or worst

Chook2
WA, 1244 posts
13 May 2012 6:35PM
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Got bored again!!!!!

Should have 55 Lbs of thrust this time.[}:)][}:)]
It's a 180o "Lockwood" Pulsejet.

The sheet the angle grinder is laying on will be the tail pipe cone.



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"How to deal with no wind." started by Chook2