Chernobyl

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doggie
doggie
WA
15849 posts
WA, 15849 posts
10 Dec 2010 11:39am
www.kiddofspeed.com/chernobyl-revisited/chapter1.html

Some spooky images here
doggie
doggie
WA
15849 posts
WA, 15849 posts
10 Dec 2010 5:33pm
THE LONG SHADOW OF CHERNOBYL: The Zone

On April 26, 1986 at 1:23 am, the Chernobyl Nuclear Power Plant blew up after operators botched a safety test, triggering the world’s worst nuclear disaster to date. Twenty years later, the long shadow of Chernobyl continues to darken lives - socially, environmentally, and physically.

From the first day, officials downplayed the damages of the Chernobyl disaster and the politics of misinformation continues:

A recent United Nations report claims as the result of the disaster an estimated four thousand people will eventually succumb to cancer-related illnesses. But, Greenpeace and other environmental organizations have accused this report of whitewashing Chernobyl’s impact and state that 200,000 people have already died between 1994 and 2000 as a consequence of the accident.

The Chernobyl Power Plant, located 65 miles northwest of the Ukrainian capital of Kiev, sits inside the fenced 30 km Exclusion Zone. Radioactive remnants of the failed reactor linger inside the so-called sarcophagus, a 24-story concrete and steel encasement hastily erected after the accident. Radiation levels are so high there that heavily protected workers are only allowed one shift of 15 minutes per day. The evacuated town of Prypyat, once inhabited by 50,000 Chernobyl plant workers, is a chilling ghost town still littered with the remnants of its hasty abandonment. Within the Exclusion Zone, in dozens of abandoned villages collapsed houses are disappearing under overgrowth; stray dogs - looking more like wolves - maraud for food. Ignoring radiation levels, 400 elderly people have returned to their homes.

mkseven
mkseven
QLD
2315 posts
QLD, 2315 posts
10 Dec 2010 8:47pm
Awesome (& sobering) link, thanks for that.
teatrea
teatrea
QLD
4177 posts
QLD, 4177 posts
10 Dec 2010 9:24pm
And the conservatives in this country want nuclear power , when we have the worlds best supply of renewable energy.Hard to make money out of renewables , better to dig everything up and sell to China.Might start learning Mandarin.
Waterloo
Waterloo
QLD
1497 posts
QLD, 1497 posts
10 Dec 2010 9:53pm
Wow,

Well worth the read.


Beethoven's moonlight sonata lies trampled in a gutter.


cisco
cisco
QLD
12365 posts
QLD, 12365 posts
11 Dec 2010 12:34am
The fear and loathing of Chernobyl and Three Mile Island persist, but the "big city, trendy, I can beat you on a moral issue over a $10 cup of coffee, political correct, greenie, intellectually driven without practical knowlege" voter assumes that scientists have learned nothing about nuclear power and it's waste management since.

Poor them and their egotistical ignorance.

I believe there should be two power grids. The "Domestic Power Grid" and the "Industrial Power Grid".

As it stands the domestic user is subsidising the industrial user.

The "Domestic Grid" should be powered by renewables such as solar, wind tide, etc so that they (who are they) can stop bugging us with their "guilt complex, save the planet agenda".

The "Industrial Grid" should be powered by whatever means available provided strict environmental requirements are met and a (say 10%) surcharge is paid for R&D into development of sustainable energy scources to the benefit of all man and natural kind.

The "Domestic Grid" should be available to all domestic power users but optional in that if a user wants to have a "Stand Alone" system, there is no compulsion to be connected to the grid but available by choice.

The C.S.I.R.O., that you and I fund through taxes, proved that a "Stand Alone" power system for modern inner city households WORKS, some 30 years ago.

The gubnment doesn't want you to know about that though.

I guess you 30 somethings missed that one.
cisco
cisco
QLD
12365 posts
QLD, 12365 posts
11 Dec 2010 12:35am
Waterloo said...
Beethoven's moonlight sonata lies trampled in a gutter.





Nah!! I've still got it on vinyl.

mkseven
mkseven
QLD
2315 posts
QLD, 2315 posts
11 Dec 2010 1:19am
30 something's havent missed it, just alot ignorantly jump on the green/media propaganda bandwagon.

cisco
cisco
QLD
12365 posts
QLD, 12365 posts
11 Dec 2010 2:03am
mkseven said...

30 something's havent missed it, just alot ignorantly jump on the green/media propaganda bandwagon.


It is my hope that ignorance is all that it is and they will catch up on their
education before the mind conditioning is complete.

FormulaNova
FormulaNova
WA
15102 posts
WA, 15102 posts
11 Dec 2010 6:20am
cisco said...
<snip>
The C.S.I.R.O., that you and I fund through taxes, proved that a "Stand Alone" power system for modern inner city households WORKS, some 30 years ago.

The gubnment doesn't want you to know about that though.

I guess you 30 somethings missed that one.


Hi Cisco.

How did the CSIRO prove that a stand alone system works? Was there a report that you can quote?

Also, how did they prove that it worked for a modern inner-city household 30 years ago? I suspect a lot has changed in just 30 years. Is it still valid?

Why would you replicate infrastructure for completely separate power systems when you can use the same one and get the same affect through different tariffs?

I would argue that the industries are probably subsidising the residential users, otherwise there would be no need for energy companies to supply them. Power supply is not so simple especially when you need to consider the times at which power is demanded from different users. There are already systems in place to reduce the cost of power to industries in off peak times, and in some cases to only supply certain facilities with power when it is off peak AND when there is spare capacity. This is all in an attempt to reduce the affect on other users, including residential users.





lightwood
lightwood
VIC
392 posts
VIC, 392 posts
11 Dec 2010 9:57am
200,000 people have died have they, try 56.



The study does state that only 56 individuals are known to have died from the Chernobyl accident - 47 from acute radiation-caused illnesses in the immediate aftermath and 9 children from thyroid cancer.

maxm
maxm
NSW
864 posts
NSW, 864 posts
11 Dec 2010 10:14am
cisco said...

The "Industrial Grid" should be powered by whatever means available provided strict environmental requirements are met and a (say 10%) surcharge is paid for R&D into development of sustainable energy scources to the benefit of all man and natural kind.


Good motives but wouldn't work - the higher prices paid by industry would simply then be built into the cost of their products and passed on to us consumers (and markups then added on by distributors and retailers). So consumers pay regardless.

OR (worst case) industry finds that its higher prices become unmarketable and they go out of business. Their employees end up on the dole and the tax payer pays for their upkeep. So consumers STILL pay regardless.

Mal was right, there's no such thing as a free lunch.
longwinded
longwinded
WA
347 posts
WA, 347 posts
11 Dec 2010 7:51am
Where did I put that tinfoil hat, haven't had to wear it for few weeks.
doggie
doggie
WA
15849 posts
WA, 15849 posts
11 Dec 2010 8:56am
lightwood said...

200,000 people have died have they, try 56.



The study does state that only 56 individuals are known to have died from the Chernobyl accident - 47 from acute radiation-caused illnesses in the immediate aftermath and 9 children from thyroid cancer.




Where did you get that from, did you read the first link you saw?? Have a closer look.
cranky
cranky
440 posts
440 posts
11 Dec 2010 9:08am
lightwood said...

200,000 people have died have they, try 56.



The study does state that only 56 individuals are known to have died from the Chernobyl accident - 47 from acute radiation-caused illnesses in the immediate aftermath and 9 children from thyroid cancer.




I don't know the figures but watched a documentary on Chernobyl where a Russian scientist said it's all relative, he said the vast number of people that die from environmental causes each year dwarf Chernobyl .The example he gave was the numbers of people around the world that die from smoke related lung disease caused by wood fired cooking and heating. Food for thought.

j murray
j murray
SA
947 posts
SA, 947 posts
11 Dec 2010 12:17pm

Power problems for housing could be fixed easily

a domestic 12vdc system could power every need

of the household, and all the goods are on the market now

They are as reliable as 240v ac. If you really want to save dollars'

Buy 3 solar panels, 2 truck batterys, and a back up wind generator

and wire your house to 12vdc. NO MORE PAYOUT ...ever. no deaths

from electrocution, It's gotta be better for the planet too.
teatrea
teatrea
QLD
4177 posts
QLD, 4177 posts
11 Dec 2010 12:25pm
j murray said...


Power problems for housing could be fixed easily

a domestic 12vdc system could power every need

of the household, and all the goods are on the market now

They are as reliable as 240v ac. If you really want to save dollars'

Buy 3 solar panels, 2 truck batterys, and a back up wind generator

and wire your house to 12vdc. NO MORE PAYOUT ...ever. no deaths

from electrocution, It's gotta be better for the planet too.


i dont think that will run my aircons , pool pump , power tools , plasma tv,s ect.

possibly work if you use next to no power any way , but interested to learn more.
FormulaNova
FormulaNova
WA
15102 posts
WA, 15102 posts
11 Dec 2010 11:01am
j murray said...


Power problems for housing could be fixed easily

a domestic 12vdc system could power every need

of the household, and all the goods are on the market now

They are as reliable as 240v ac. If you really want to save dollars'

Buy 3 solar panels, 2 truck batterys, and a back up wind generator

and wire your house to 12vdc. NO MORE PAYOUT ...ever. no deaths

from electrocution, It's gotta be better for the planet too.


Yeah, not these days. It would be great if we could all do this, but it just isn't going to happen.

To run most things on 12v would require a decent thickness of copper to carry the current required, and your truck batteries aren't going to last long if you keep discharging them the way you would need to.

I think the idea of each home having their own solar cells and inverters to feed back into the grid is actually a pretty good idea. No need for batteries, and you still get to have power when its dark outside.

da vecta
da vecta
QLD
2515 posts
QLD, 2515 posts
11 Dec 2010 3:11pm
That's what the internet is all about. Great little travel log.
teatrea
teatrea
QLD
4177 posts
QLD, 4177 posts
11 Dec 2010 3:54pm
Yeah grid tie is the go , i have a 2.6KW at home and it pumps out on average 14 KWH per day and half that goes back to the network and i get 50cents a KWH for that.It saves me around $400 a quarter.
Gizmo
Gizmo
SA
2865 posts
SA, 2865 posts
11 Dec 2010 9:09pm
If Australia was to go nuclear for power how many power stations would we need and where would they be located?

https://www.tai.org.au/file.php?file=web_papers/WP96.pdf

And we have a good example of how well the power plants would be maintained, like of most Australian public assets.... roads, hospitals, schools, power and water infrastructure.
cisco
cisco
QLD
12365 posts
QLD, 12365 posts
11 Dec 2010 9:35pm
FormulaNova said...

cisco said...

The C.S.I.R.O., that you and I fund through taxes, proved that a "Stand Alone" power system for modern inner city households WORKS, some 30 years ago.


Hi Cisco.

How did the CSIRO prove that a stand alone system works? Was there a report that you can quote?

Also, how did they prove that it worked for a modern inner-city household 30 years ago? I suspect a lot has changed in just 30 years. Is it still valid?


There was a doco on the project that was aired on ABC TV around 1979. I saw it and watched the whole program.

I know it happened but I do not care if I am believed or not. I have mentioned it before on this forum but you are the first to notice FN.

The C.S.I.R.O set themselves a task to determine if it was possible, using the technology then available, for modern urban housing to be individually energy independant.

They built a house in Canberra that had all the modern conveniences and was powered by renewables (solar etc). The system was backed up by diesel powered generator that would automaticly start if the system dropped below a certain reserve level.

During the year the experiment ran, the back up diesel unit did not start once.

I have tried searching their web site to find a reference to it but like I said:-

"The gubnment doesn't want you to know about that though."

My question still is:- What happened to the data?????



Edit:- The subject is not really about costs. It is about technology that has been proven but denied to the general public in order to be able to keep milking the cow (you and me).



CJW
CJW
NSW
1731 posts
CJW CJW
NSW, 1731 posts
11 Dec 2010 10:48pm
doggie said...

lightwood said...

200,000 people have died have they, try 56.



The study does state that only 56 individuals are known to have died from the Chernobyl accident - 47 from acute radiation-caused illnesses in the immediate aftermath and 9 children from thyroid cancer.




Where did you get that from, did you read the first link you saw?? Have a closer look.


There have been a few docos on Chernobyl on ABC or SBS this year and they quoted similar figures, Greenpiece and idiots like Christine Milne just pander to fear and have never made any legitimate claims RE this incident or nuclear power in general, imo. There has been an absolute sh!tonne of research done surrounding this event, understandably, and although they estimate there will be a total of around 4000 deaths directly attributed to this incident that's basically guess work, educated of course. Currently as mentioned before it's 50ish.

/side topic: RE nuclear power, did anyone watch Big bigger biggest the other night on submarines? The USS Pensilvania an Ohio class nuclear sub was commissioned in 1989, uses a few kg of plutonium as fuel, to this day, it's never been refueled. Epic!

*WHO report into Chernobyl below

www.who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2005/pr38/en/

EDIT: link also posted above, lol


cisco
cisco
QLD
12365 posts
QLD, 12365 posts
11 Dec 2010 9:48pm
teatrea said...

Yeah grid tie is the go , i have a 2.6KW at home and it pumps out on average 14 KWH per day and half that goes back to the network and i get 50cents a KWH for that.It saves me around $400 a quarter.


If you had the right stand alone system and were off the grid they couldn't con you anymore and you would have a zero energy bill except for gas cooking maybe.

cisco
cisco
QLD
12365 posts
QLD, 12365 posts
11 Dec 2010 9:53pm
FormulaNova said...

j murray said...


Power problems for housing could be fixed easily

a domestic 12vdc system could power every need

of the household, and all the goods are on the market now

They are as reliable as 240v ac. If you really want to save dollars'

Buy 3 solar panels, 2 truck batterys, and a back up wind generator

and wire your house to 12vdc. NO MORE PAYOUT ...ever. no deaths

from electrocution, It's gotta be better for the planet too.


Yeah, not these days. It would be great if we could all do this, but it just isn't going to happen.



It is happening as we speak. Just ask any cruising yachtsman about it. They do not usually hang about marinas so that would be the wrong place to look for one.

teatrea
teatrea
QLD
4177 posts
QLD, 4177 posts
11 Dec 2010 11:20pm
cisco said...

teatrea said...

Yeah grid tie is the go , i have a 2.6KW at home and it pumps out on average 14 KWH per day and half that goes back to the network and i get 50cents a KWH for that.It saves me around $400 a quarter.


If you had the right stand alone system and were off the grid they couldn't con you anymore and you would have a zero energy bill except for gas cooking maybe.




wouldnt that be nice.Seen a vid recently of a scientist who has worked out how to get Hydrogen from water easily , safely and cheaply.Hydrogen powered a lot of things before oil became the staple.Looks like it might do it again.Good old H20
ginger pom
ginger pom
VIC
1746 posts
VIC, 1746 posts
12 Dec 2010 2:24am
It's 25 years on and many people are annoyed by the lack of super heroes
j murray
j murray
SA
947 posts
SA, 947 posts
12 Dec 2010 9:50am

Are YOU? nominating ^^^^^yourself Ginger Pom.......RFL
kiteboy dave
kiteboy dave
QLD
6525 posts
QLD, 6525 posts
13 Dec 2010 12:32am
That kid of speed story is a bit of a crock... the pics are good but they were just taken on some chernobyl tour that thousands of people take every year..
--------------------------------------------
Chornobyl "Ghost Town" story is a fabrication TOP <#top>
e-POSHTA subscriber Mary Mycio writes:

I am based in Kyiv and writing a book about Chornobyl for the Joseph Henry
Press. Several sources have sent me links to the "Ghost Town" photo essay
included in the last e-POSHTA mailing. Though it was full of factual
errors, I did find the notion of lone young woman riding her motorcycle
through the evacuated Zone of Alienation to be intriguing and asked about
it when I visited there two days ago.

I am sorry to report that much of Elena's story is not true. She did not
travel around the zone by herself on a motorcycle. Motorcycles are banned
in the zone, as is wandering around alone, without an escort from the zone
administration. She made one trip there with her husband and a friend. They
traveled in a Chornobyl car that picked them up in Kyiv.

She did, however, bring a motorcycle helmet. They organized their trip
through a Kyiv travel agency and the administration of the Chornobyl zone
(and not her father). They were given the same standard excursion that most
Chernobyl tourists receive. When the Web site appeared, Zone Administration
personnel were in an uproar over who approved a motorcycle trip in the
zone. When it turned out that the motorcycle story was an invention, they
were even less pleased about this fantasy Web site.

Because of those problems, Elena and her husband have changed the Web site
and the story considerably in the last few days. Earlier versions of the
narrative lied more blatantly about Elena taking lone motorcycle trips in
the zone. That has been changed to merely suggest that she does so, which
is still misleading.

I would not normally bother to correct someone's silly Chornobyl fantasy.
Indeed, correcting all the factual errors and falsehoods in "Ghost Town"
would consume as much space as the Web site itself. But the motorcycle
story was such an outrageous fiction that I thought the readers of e-Poshta
should know.

Mary Mycio, J.D.

Legal Program Director
IREX U-Media
Shota Rustaveli St. 38b, No. 16
Kyiv 01023, Ukraine
Tel: (380-44) 220-6374, 228-6147
Fax: 227-7543
saltiest1
saltiest1
NSW
2574 posts
NSW, 2574 posts
13 Dec 2010 5:36am
cisco said...

FormulaNova said...

j murray said...


Power problems for housing could be fixed easily

a domestic 12vdc system could power every need

of the household, and all the goods are on the market now

They are as reliable as 240v ac. If you really want to save dollars'

Buy 3 solar panels, 2 truck batterys, and a back up wind generator

and wire your house to 12vdc. NO MORE PAYOUT ...ever. no deaths

from electrocution, It's gotta be better for the planet too.


Yeah, not these days. It would be great if we could all do this, but it just isn't going to happen.



It is happening as we speak. Just ask any cruising yachtsman about it. They do not usually hang about marinas so that would be the wrong place to look for one.









and how many fire up the cheap noisey genny when the run the aircon or other juice sucking gear? the lifestyle is a bit different i think and re-wiring my whole house for 12 volt would be a nightmare. itd be nice though.
Obelix
Obelix
WA
1173 posts
WA, 1173 posts
13 Dec 2010 8:15am
I read somewhere that Italian Mafia is organising the removal of the radioactive waste in Europe.

An SOS is issues, whilst the ship is over a deep sections of the Mediteranean sea.
The ship disapears, and no crew is ever reported missing.

Of course, this may be as true as the Russian Scientists reports of 47 deaths, and no other damage, but we never hear what's happening with the waste.
Rather, we choose to put our heads into sand.

It's not good enough for an old polititian to tell me "trust me it will be fine".
Or a scientific propeller head dreaming of leaving the mark to tell me it's all under control.

BTW, the radiation is good for the life on Earth. It promotes mutation and helps with the evolution.
And I know it for a fact, as I read it in the paper.

It's only bad for us

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