Forums > General Discussion   Shooting the breeze...

Electric cars.... convince me

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Created by Tonz 1 month ago, 16 May 2022
Tonz
482 posts
16 May 2022 5:38PM
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The ****s are coming to stay and governments seem to be lapping them up.
yes the run on electricity lets say 70-90% solar or wind powered, but how much energy is used to produce these big generators?
Then the minerals that are in the batteries etc how safe is this stuff out in the open, what does it cost to produce,

myscreenname
692 posts
16 May 2022 5:52PM
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f

TonyAbbott
769 posts
16 May 2022 6:22PM
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When a lithium battery fails, catches fire and burns the car to the ground.....

Is it still carbon neutral?

Carantoc
WA, 5816 posts
16 May 2022 6:23PM
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Heard on the radio this morning 50% of all callouts for car breakdowns are battery related.

Solution : put more batteries and more complicated electrical components associated with batteries in cars !

What happened to the crank started diesel with zero electrics ?


I am convinced that EVs are expensive, heavy, resource intensive things with poor range and slow recharge. I'm unconvinced about the long term costs, whole of life sustainability or the day-to-day reliability and easy of ownership of them. Love the concept, hear what the sales team have to say, but sorry - the reality is nowhere near the concept. I see the Prius is being withdrawn from the Aussie market. Doesn't say much for long term ownership or second hand value with every EV or hybrid being outdated 12 months after you buy it.

I'll leave them to the architects, Uber drivers and cardigan wearing nouveau socialists.


Problem is (and I hate to admit it) - the EVs and hybrids are already better than the hydrocarbon versions and improving everyday. Only people who don't agree are those who have never tasted one.



FormulaNova
WA, 13161 posts
16 May 2022 7:56PM
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Carantoc said..

Problem is (and I hate to admit it) - the EVs and hybrids are already better than the hydrocarbon versions and improving everyday. Only people who don't agree are those who have never tasted one.





I have never tasted one. Is it a bit like chicken?

Rails
QLD, 1331 posts
17 May 2022 5:01AM
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Tonz said..
The ****s are coming to stay and governments seem to be lapping them up.
yes the run on electricity lets say 70-90% solar or wind powered, but how much energy is used to produce these big generators?
Then the minerals that are in the batteries etc how safe is this stuff out in the open, what does it cost to produce,


No such thing as an environmentally friendly car, the Cuban model is the best, keep your stock for 50-60 years without replacing anything but parts, the infinite growth model simply sucks from a resource perspective.

That said, I drive 150 clicks a day to work, if I take the LC it costs me $40, the electric costs me $3.50. Also does half of the driving for me and no real service intervals. Range is about the same as I would get from a full tank of gas. The way I look at it I am saving half the cost of a new car every year.

Of course I am also part of the consumption problem but the el is hydro so at least that is something.

Carantoc
WA, 5816 posts
17 May 2022 7:44AM
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FormulaNova said..
I have never tasted one. Is it a bit like chicken?


Meat is murder. I wouldn't know what chicken tastes like. The concept revolts me. You should hang your head in shame.

It is a bitter-sweet taste.

Bit like humble-pie so I'm told.

FormulaNova
WA, 13161 posts
17 May 2022 10:08AM
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Carantoc said..

FormulaNova said..
I have never tasted one. Is it a bit like chicken?



Meat is murder. I wouldn't know what chicken tastes like. The concept revolts me. You should hang your head in shame.

It is a bitter-sweet taste.

Bit like humble-pie so I'm told.


Oh, I agree with you, but I am more woke than you. I thought you would know what chicken tasted like so I tried to set the question to your level. Murderer!

I have been told that chicken tastes like soybean, lentils, and chickpeas all mixed in equal quantities. That is my only reference point, and of course all these are organically grown from responsible farms.

Is humble pie like blackberry pie?

myscreenname
692 posts
17 May 2022 4:33PM
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FormulaNova said..
Is humble pie like blackberry pie?


Humble Pie is your diet.

moon waxing
WA, 301 posts
17 May 2022 4:37PM
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Better to resist change and carry on breathing carcinogenic particles in the air.

Plus we all like the price of fuel and everything else to go through the roof when there's a war on the other side of the world!

jn1
SA, 2127 posts
17 May 2022 6:11PM
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I think Australia has to do something to slow down the climate instability we are seeing (ie Global Warming), but the technology isn't really suited to Australia IMO. It's going to be a difficult one. I think the battery supply model could have been designed/planned better. Instead of hard installing batteries and waiting 30min to 40hr to charge it (depending on how long you want your batteries to last), why not take a modular approach (that is probably not as efficient, but more practical and safer):

Industry agrees on a standard battery enclosure with standardised connector. EV vehicle owners don't own the battery modules. A conglomerate owns and maintains them (a bit like LP gas bottles), and they service/depose/recondition them accordingly. Therefore your car doesn't have the issue of capacity reduction or having to be pulled down to replace all of the batteries at the major service interval at heart stopping cost, or charging electronics fitted to car. Instead, batteries modules are rented, and everybody has fully serviceable batteries.

When batteries in car are low, you pull up to a service station, service person comes out. They remove flat batteries, and put in recharged units. Off you go. Service attendant adds to your tab. Depending on elegance/simplicity of battery pack design, you are only held up at servo no longer than if you were fueling up an LPG vehicle. Who is going to stand around for 30min waiting for their EV car to charge on a road trip ?. If EV becomes mainstream (at the moment it's early adopters), what is the practicality of rolling out charging stations with a 30min minimum charge time ?

Regarding chemical fires when vehicles crash (I believe the CFS/SES just stand back and let them rip ?, is that correct ?), have a system that safely jettisons these modules during/after an accident in order to isolate the short circuit and make a smaller easier to deal with fire... maybe this could save the occupants trapped in the vehicle ?

There was a development from Germany 18 months ago called "Power Paste" - A hydrogen based technology. But they have gone quiet.

Mark _australia
WA, 21484 posts
17 May 2022 5:01PM
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Carantoc said.. Meat is murder. I wouldn't know what chicken tastes like. The concept revolts me.


Nice pun.

Mark _australia
WA, 21484 posts
17 May 2022 5:08PM
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I still have not seen anyone refute the math about how many charging ports are needed between major towns, and the amount of cars doing the trip each day.
One servo ends up literally 10x the size as people need to plug in for so long (not a 5min stop). Where are we building that? There are a lot needed, who is financing it as its not just the regional servo putting in a couple of plugs, its enormous infrastructure.

Issue with the lack of ability to fix them when batteries are incorporated in massive sealed chassis and you can't get to anything.... so it becomes like an iPhone where one little problem means scrap the whole thing and get a new one. Albeit the bits are recycled somewhere but not all of it, and its not as efficient as having a bloke in a workshop down the road who can replace one cell and you keep the car for 10 or 20yrs

Issue with natural disaster - we can't keep the power on for the 3mths of winter so what chance would we have in massive bushfire and the poles are all down?

Good city concept for hipsters. So maybe 20% of Oz?

Voda.
161 posts
17 May 2022 5:46PM
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Apparently instead of servos they just have power outlets at all the carparks along the street etc just a tiny little pole out the ground hardly notice em.....everywhere...

As for jettisoning the cars batterys i dont think you can go past the clicky clicky system all our cordless power tools use just stomp incase of emergency it drops out onto some caster wheels then throw a leg over her and ride it down the street dr strangelove styles

kato
VIC, 3143 posts
17 May 2022 8:03PM
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Tonz said..
The ****s are coming to stay and governments seem to be lapping them up.
yes the run on electricity lets say 70-90% solar or wind powered, but how much energy is used to produce these big generators?
Then the minerals that are in the batteries etc how safe is this stuff out in the open, what does it cost to produce,


I'm not sure that I'll change anyone but here goes.
Aus doesn't get a choice about ICE vehicles, all the major car makers have stated that their not going to make them anymore from 2030-40. China and Toyota are the exception with the Toyota betting on hybrid.

Wind and Solar farm payback is well within the farms lifetime and yes you can recycle both back to components to make more.

No I don't own an electric car as I can't buy what I need just yet or afford it.

Try this. Drive your Ev to work, charge your car at work with green power, drive home, plug car in and draw the power to run your home. Available everywhere except in Australia as the Federal Government has dragged its feet on signing off. Signing off on emission standards and joining into the EU emission mitigation scheme will increase the Ev choice and reduce the cost of an Ev by $10-20k. Doing just this costs nothing. Change is coming weather we like it or not. The same arguments were used when the car replaced the horse and cart.

Mark _australia
WA, 21484 posts
17 May 2022 6:11PM
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Not until we build a few nuclear power stations.

Vodka raises a good point about just lots of poles in streetside bays... council will get in on that action for sure

Macroscien
QLD, 6548 posts
17 May 2022 8:12PM
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I am start saving on BYD Ae1, that may cost less then $30k , 7 years warranty and 400km range. 3s to 100 km/h.No brainer. Just one only problem to carry windsurfing staff inside. But small trailer should solve that problem.Beside with 20kw solar at home and 30kw at farm I could make endless 255km trips for free.

Kamikuza
QLD, 6366 posts
17 May 2022 8:43PM
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I get sick of filling the car up once every couple of weeks. Can't imagine how annoying it'll be to plug the thing in every day.

...hmm, I might have to buy stocks in the wire and plug companies. How many people you reckon are just going to forget that the car is plugged in and just drive off...?

Voda.
161 posts
17 May 2022 6:44PM
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What..... what exactly happens to a little box trailer full of surfboards when you floor it in a tesla plaid ??

Has a tesla towed anything yet?

insideevs.com/news/481603/video-tesla-model-y-towing-amazing-roadtrip/

God i want to see that camper go from 0 to 100 in 2 seconds or whatever nonsense it is

Macroscien
QLD, 6548 posts
17 May 2022 8:51PM
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Kamikuza said..
I get sick of filling the car up once every couple of weeks. Can't imagine how annoying it'll be to plug the thing in every day.

...hmm, I might have to buy stocks in the wire and plug companies. How many people you reckon are just going to forget that the car is plugged in and just drive off...?



Wireless charging?
Just charging pad in your garage

firiebob
WA, 3067 posts
17 May 2022 9:02PM
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Plug in and wait for free or pay for a 90 second battery swap.

Mark _australia
WA, 21484 posts
17 May 2022 9:16PM
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Macroscien said.. Wireless charging? Just charging pad in your garage


If there is a wireless charger big enough to charge a car that is @30cm above the pad..... with that much battery power..... I won't wanna be anywhere near it thanks.

Rails
QLD, 1331 posts
18 May 2022 5:03AM
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Kamikuza said..
I get sick of filling the car up once every couple of weeks. Can't imagine how annoying it'll be to plug the thing in every day.

...hmm, I might have to buy stocks in the wire and plug companies. How many people you reckon are just going to forget that the car is plugged in and just drive off...?


Car won't go while plugged in, little electronic voice comes on and tells you you are an idjeet, get out and unplug me.

if you are filling every few weeks you will only need to plug in every few weeks, so every few weeks you will get a reminder that you are an idjeet

almost worth not paying for fossils, either way no hydrocarbons left in 10 years at a price individuals can afford

slammin
QLD, 978 posts
18 May 2022 5:43AM
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Reality is EV isn't going away. There's fast charge batteries on the way. Australian company Magnis is moving as fast as they can.

Voda.
161 posts
18 May 2022 5:55AM
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Moores law was getting a little rough on the old foxcon enployees so weve found something else to keep that beast satiated i still remember buying my first 20g fireball hdd from a literal hole in the wall ypud knock and pass a piece of paper threw a eye hole itd slam shut and a little while later youd have your hdd theyre stock was so valueable it had to be this way. Now you can accidently buy that in ssd form at the checkout counter of aldi

Anyways... cars with sensors... lots of sensors .... visual hearing heat ..... they will end up making the bodyworl from something almost pliable so that any change to the body can be registered and adjusted for in the operations could you imagine the mayhem if a plane had a giant theoretical hole punch just punch a hole threw one wing. Would fly dramatically differently and for evs to be driven by some of the biggest idiots we have to offer or just near them then theyll need some sort of car body scan and if its out by a few mm then auto drive will be disabled etc emergency manual only to get it to the mechanic. Youll have a generation of tribal teaseing when some bloke at work cant drive his car at all and its always just been robot driven. Ala working on a jobsite today and you cant drive a manual transmission.

Anyways the more sensors the more data the more we evolve i just wonder what the powers that be will have us evolve into... they already tricked us into factory work with the bs school system we were put thru. Factory workers put there kids thru school where they learn to become factory workers same time scheduleing work etc etc learn nothing of real value just prepare you for a possible higher roll in keeping the machine turning.

UncleBob
NSW, 993 posts
18 May 2022 10:08AM
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Mark _australia said..

Macroscien said.. Wireless charging? Just charging pad in your garage



If there is a wireless charger big enough to charge a car that is @30cm above the pad..... with that much battery power..... I won't wanna be anywhere near it thanks.


Another well thought out proposal.

HotBodMon
NSW, 482 posts
18 May 2022 10:40AM
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Macroscien
QLD, 6548 posts
18 May 2022 11:12AM
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Voda.
161 posts
18 May 2022 9:29AM
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Wait a minute ....

theyre just tricking us into paying for our own trains!!!

kato
VIC, 3143 posts
18 May 2022 12:14PM
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One of the Nordic countries is trialing a charge point road section of about 80 km. Drive n charge. Not sure if it tail or induction

Pedster
34 posts
18 May 2022 11:44AM
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The oil and gas industry have hardly been great towards the average consumer over the past several decades. I'm no expert but they've literally had the world over a barrel for however many years. Think of all the poor behaviour the Saudis alone have gotten away with just because of their oil reserves. Let alone the environmental damage, Gulf of Mexico and Amazon etc.



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Forums > General Discussion   Shooting the breeze...


"Electric cars.... convince me" started by Tonz