Forums > General Discussion   Shooting the breeze...

Hey Carpenters!

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Created by Shifu > 9 months ago, 29 May 2019
Shifu
QLD, 1902 posts
29 May 2019 6:01PM
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Trying to determine whether my rafters are hardwood or cypress pine. I chiseled some paint off and here's the result. Chisels easilly and the chips look like other hardwood chips I've seen but...
Edit. Heres a chip.




Craig66
NSW, 2435 posts
29 May 2019 6:35PM
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What does it smell like?

Imax1
QLD, 4524 posts
29 May 2019 6:41PM
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Hardwood is hard ( except if it's balsa wood, which is technically a hard wood ) , cypress is soft like pine .
Out of curiosity, why do you need to know ?

Imax1
QLD, 4524 posts
29 May 2019 6:46PM
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Craig66 said..
What does it smell like?

If it's fishy smelling , it's out of an old tuna trolling boat .

Imax1
QLD, 4524 posts
29 May 2019 6:48PM
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Imax1 said
Out of curiosity, why do you need to know ?


I know , I know , you want to make fins out of it .

FormulaNova
WA, 14043 posts
29 May 2019 5:00PM
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Try drilling it and if it clogs up the drill or burns or both, its hardwood. At least it is in my house.

Oregon?

Mark _australia
WA, 22089 posts
29 May 2019 5:14PM
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Pine is a hard wood. But its a softwood. Its a relatively hard softwood.
Pine is a softwood - but balsa is a hardwood.

So I'm no carpenter but they might wanna know what you're asking and why....

AusMoz
QLD, 1389 posts
29 May 2019 7:21PM
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Mark _australia said..
Pine is a hard wood. But its a softwood. Its a relatively hard softwood.
Pine is a softwood - but balsa is a hardwood.

So I'm no carpenter but they might wanna know what you're asking and why....


Thats not confusing at all

Shifu
QLD, 1902 posts
29 May 2019 7:41PM
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Stress calculations. I want to add a ceiling under my exposed rafters. 50m2. will add about 550kg in weight. if pine it may be too weak. if hardwood im good to go.

Stuthepirate
SA, 3589 posts
29 May 2019 7:15PM
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Is this another board building thread?

decrepit
WA, 11828 posts
29 May 2019 6:33PM
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That sounds very simplified to me. The spanning strength of timber isn't just whether it's hard or soft, There's what the grain's doing and the number of knot holes. Curly grain Jarrah is hopeless straight grain oregon is brilliant

Imax1
QLD, 4524 posts
29 May 2019 8:38PM
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Definitely co carbon

kato
VIC, 3339 posts
29 May 2019 8:56PM
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Ok
How old is the house?
Whats the span , load and current beam size. The builder wouldn't have gone way over spec. Ie 200x50 F7 might equal 145 x 35 F17
Given your in QL it might be White Cypress .
The painted beam looks like Oregon which was used a lot in the 70-80 cos it was cheap.
You could laminate another beam along side to increase its strength. Nails spaced no more than 2 x Depth.

sn
WA, 2775 posts
29 May 2019 7:17PM
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Mark _australia said..
Pine is a hard wood. But its a softwood. Its a relatively hard softwood.
Pine is a softwood - but balsa is a hardwood.

So I'm no carpenter but they might wanna know what you're asking and why....


and to really mess with your head - Jarrah is a softwood....

Shifu
QLD, 1902 posts
29 May 2019 9:23PM
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kato said..
Ok
How old is the house?
Whats the span , load and current beam size. The builder wouldn't have gone way over spec. Ie 200x50 F7 might equal 145 x 35 F17
Given your in QL it might be White Cypress .
The painted beam looks like Oregon which was used a lot in the 70-80 cos it was cheap.
You could laminate another beam along side to increase its strength. Nails spaced no more than 2 x Depth.




Span is 3.6. Rafter size is 175x50. Spacing is on 900 centres. 80s house. Roof is metal on cement sheet. No isulation so hot as hades in summer and hence why I want to add a ceiling below the rafters.

pepe47
WA, 1379 posts
29 May 2019 9:05PM
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It looks like white cypress but I can't understand the sheen that seems to reflect the light. Unless someone has painted over laquer.
A sin like overcooking red emperor!

cauncy
WA, 8407 posts
29 May 2019 9:40PM
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At 900s you'll have to trim out to 450 or 600 to add rondo channell
tbh I'd run a plate around trim out at 450 and put some hangers off original, much better insulation wise due to separation, add a whirly and that pulls 70% concealed heat out also, but if you really want that look get a red book and check your span tables, if I can be arsed I'll dig mine out for you

cauncy
WA, 8407 posts
29 May 2019 9:55PM
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A175 35 at 3.5 span will take 90 kg m2 at 45 you can see the increase of span, by using larger rondo you can span 900s with minimal trimming , exsposed rafters certainly need excess trimming to take Gyproc. It's much more likely to cracking being flushed up to rafters unless using a starter trim

cauncy
WA, 8407 posts
29 May 2019 10:31PM
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Here's your material weights


Shifu
QLD, 1902 posts
30 May 2019 12:40AM
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All kinds of awesome! What timber grade was in the span tables. Becoming certain I have F7. Also we are an N2 zone.

ok
NSW, 1087 posts
30 May 2019 9:23AM
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By the title saying hey carpenters it suggests your too tight to employ one with knowledge and skills for the situation.
I suggest getting a professional to look at the job as there may be many points / steps in the job your missing out or not noticing.
Maybe go to the local hardware store ask for a reputable builder or chippy and ask if you could pay them for a few hours of there time to advise on a job.
This will save you lots of time and money in the long run.

myusernam
QLD, 6085 posts
30 May 2019 10:31AM
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you could just use some steel instead. Bit of extra strength when doing a home bodgey never hurt

Shifu
QLD, 1902 posts
30 May 2019 6:52PM
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A structural engineer is on the case

Craig66
NSW, 2435 posts
30 May 2019 6:59PM
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Shifu said..
A structural engineer is on the case


Your over thinking it.....

Just get 5 mates to stand on your roof and jump up and down,

AusMoz
QLD, 1389 posts
30 May 2019 7:01PM
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Craig66 said..

Shifu said..
A structural engineer is on the case



Your over thinking it.....

Just get 5 mates to stand on your roof and jump up and down,


He did it last time, now down to 3 mates

kato
VIC, 3339 posts
30 May 2019 7:45PM
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Looks like you've got all the right info. You could just nail plaster battens up and have a flat raked ceiling. Easy job to do over a weekend

cauncy
WA, 8407 posts
30 May 2019 7:46PM
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kato said..
Looks like you've got all the right info. You could just nail plaster battens up and have a flat raked ceiling. Easy job to do over a weekend


or buy a carton and a big fan, fu#k work and enjoy the weekend

cauncy
WA, 8407 posts
30 May 2019 7:54PM
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if your engineer comes back with a negative, ask him about the use of a stiffing plate, youll need this anyhow if you go with an exsposed rafter, basically if you need or want 50 mm of rafter showing you could put a 90x35 alongside your original 60 mm up and bugle screw that to the rafter add 10 mm gyproc leaves a 50 mm exsposed rafter, trim across on the flat at 450 cc and you can tuck insulation in, if your in a high condensation area make sure youve air flow at the eave and ridge

cauncy
WA, 8407 posts
30 May 2019 8:03PM
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A quick sketch, you engineer will charge you 4/500$$ for something similar


Shifu
QLD, 1902 posts
30 May 2019 10:04PM
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cauncy said..
if your engineer comes back with a negative, ask him about the use of a stiffing plate, youll need this anyhow if you go with an exsposed rafter, basically if you need or want 50 mm of rafter showing you could put a 90x35 alongside your original 60 mm up and bugle screw that to the rafter add 10 mm gyproc leaves a 50 mm exsposed rafter, trim across on the flat at 450 cc and you can tuck insulation in, if your in a high condensation area make sure youve air flow at the eave and ridge


This is pretty much exactly my plan.

2stubborn2quit
WA, 169 posts
30 May 2019 8:05PM
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sn said..

Mark _australia said..
Pine is a hard wood. But its a softwood. Its a relatively hard softwood.
Pine is a softwood - but balsa is a hardwood.

So I'm no carpenter but they might wanna know what you're asking and why....



and to really mess with your head - Jarrah is a softwood....


No it is not. Jarrah or Eucalyptus marginata is definitely a hardwood as are all our native large trees in the SW of WA. Hardwoods are defined by their cellular structure not their hardness. But who gives a rats arse.



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Forums > General Discussion   Shooting the breeze...


"Hey Carpenters!" started by Shifu