High speed rail

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southace
southace
SA
4803 posts
SA, 4803 posts
26 Aug 2013 7:41pm
Nice that Rudd is planing this high speed rail on east coast!..... Anyone caught a train lately?? ...I prefer flight my choice it's easy and quick! Maybe he's thinking of cutting green house emissions by using trains!
FlickySpinny
FlickySpinny
WA
657 posts
WA, 657 posts
26 Aug 2013 7:28pm
You haven't caught a train because there's no high-speed rail in Australia.

High-speed rail is a much nicer and usually quicker travelling experience than getting to an airport, parking your car, catching a bus to the terminal, standing in line to check in, standing in line to check in your bags, standing in line to go through security, hanging around for half an hour, etc etc etc.

Central London - Central Paris is quicker and far nicer on Eurostar than it is flying.

Australian high-speed rail is not a bad idea fundamentally. I'm sure there are plenty of reasons why it shouldn't be built, but if it was built and it was genuinely quick (min 250 - 300 km/h) it would work, just like it does in France and Japan.



The only reason I'd be against it is if they couldn't make the business case stack up (see HS2 in the UK).
kiteboy dave
kiteboy dave
QLD
6525 posts
QLD, 6525 posts
26 Aug 2013 10:20pm
Hmm tough one. One the one hand, would be nice. Much easier to go city centre to city centre, no check ins, no waiting around, stroll up and down, enjoy the legroom etc.

On the other hand, you start pouring money in today (actually already tens of millions been spent on various plans) and you keep pouring billions in and in 2035 maybe you get 1 leg complete, Syd to Melb.

I like infrastructure projects like this, in theory, but at the same time I'm sure ticket sales will never be enough to even pay it's way forward (maintenance etc) let alone pay back the hundred-odd billion it's cost just to get running. Unlike a similar massive infrastructure project, NBN, which will eventually pay itself off, because people pay $30-100/m for home internet, every month, most houses.

So, knowing it will cost massively up front, take forever, force lots of people to be turfed out of their houses or have their farms cut in half (can't take many curves at 300kph), and cost a packet, is it worth it? Maybe. Tough one.
Mr Milk
Mr Milk
NSW
3139 posts
NSW, 3139 posts
26 Aug 2013 10:24pm
I think that the Libs could produce a similar high speed railway system using the existing infrastructure at much lower cost. Clever suspension engineering is all that is needed.
Then again, that evacuated pipe that Egon Musk dreamed up would be a much faster system than either
Harrow
Harrow
NSW
4521 posts
NSW, 4521 posts
26 Aug 2013 11:10pm
As usual, large aussie distances, and low population density kill this one. Lost count of the number of times I've been asked to scope out the power supply for a Sydney - Canberra - Melbourne VFT by various proponents over the last 20 years, and it just never adds up economically.

And that was before cheap airfares and high power prices
Wineman
Wineman
NSW
1412 posts
NSW, 1412 posts
27 Aug 2013 10:10am
Harrow said..

As usual, large aussie distances, and low population density kill this one. Lost count of the number of times I've been asked to scope out the power supply for a Sydney - Canberra - Melbourne VFT by various proponents over the last 20 years, and it just never adds up economically.

And that was before cheap airfares and high power prices



Yes Paul, I was listening to Annabel Crabb talking about it yeaterday.
Something like costed in the 80's at $5 billion, 90's at $10-15 billion, noughties at $50 b & now $150+

As you say, distance & pop'n density will kill it every time - like a lot of our infrastructure (is there a tunnel that makes $'s)

Maybe get Clive onto it - make much more sense than Titanic movies & dinosaurs on golf courses!
pepe47
pepe47
WA
1382 posts
WA, 1382 posts
27 Aug 2013 8:18am
Mr Milk said..

I think that the Libs could produce a similar high speed railway system using the existing infrastructure at much lower cost. Clever suspension engineering is all that is needed.
Then again, that evacuated pipe that Egon Musk dreamed up would be a much faster system than either


Don't really think so.. Not when you have to slow the train for 50-60kmh permanent speed restrictions due to not only the condition of the rail, but the tightness of the curve. That's a recipe for another Spanish high speed disaster.
Mark _australia
Mark _australia
WA
23684 posts
WA, 23684 posts
27 Aug 2013 8:31am
The singing and dancing mono-rail guy in The Simpsons comes to mind.

More electioneering anything for a vote. Route will have stops in all the marginal seats
Pugwash
Pugwash
WA
7733 posts
WA, 7733 posts
27 Aug 2013 9:24am
Mr Milk said..

I think that the Libs could produce a similar high speed railway system using the existing infrastructure at much lower cost. Clever suspension engineering is all that is needed.
Then again, that evacuated pipe that Egon Musk dreamed up would be a much faster system than either


The Libs version will be faster. The trains will stop at nodes, known as stations.

The Labs are planning a high speed rail to every single home. A well-timed leap from the moving train should do the trick nicely for disembarkation disembowelment.
JustinL
JustinL
NSW
468 posts
NSW, 468 posts
27 Aug 2013 11:33am
The singing and dancing mono-rail guy in The Simpsons comes to mind.
Mark _australia said..

The singing and dancing mono-rail guy in The Simpsons comes to mind.

More electioneering anything for a vote. Route will have stops in all the marginal seats


LOL thats funny

I reckon Shanghai has it pretty good with a MagLev train from the city out to Airport. Imagine how many peoples lives would improve in Sydney if Sydney Airport was closed and moved to properly built airport in Bathurst or Goulburn or Newcastle.
Hong Kong did it, in Hong Kong you can check in at the train station downtown.
Harrow
Harrow
NSW
4521 posts
NSW, 4521 posts
27 Aug 2013 12:22pm
pepe47 said..Don't really think so.. Not when you have to slow the train for 50-60kmh permanent speed restrictions due to not only the condition of the rail, but the tightness of the curve. That's a recipe for another Spanish high speed disaster.

and don't forget the 40kmh school zones.
evlPanda
evlPanda
NSW
9207 posts
NSW, 9207 posts
27 Aug 2013 1:00pm
JustinL said..
I reckon Shanghai has it pretty good with a MagLev train from the city out to Airport. Imagine how many peoples lives would improve in Sydney if Sydney Airport was closed and moved to properly built airport in Bathurst or Goulburn or Newcastle.
Hong Kong did it, in Hong Kong you can check in at the train station downtown.


I think Sydney airport is in a fantastic location. I can't think of another airport in the world that is so close to the city. 11 minutes to central station, with a train every 10 minutes approx.

Sydney to Canberra is an obvious first choice for a high speed train line. Taking off and landing, and circling around in a holding pattern makes up nearly all of the trip in a plane.
kiteboy dave
kiteboy dave
QLD
6525 posts
QLD, 6525 posts
27 Aug 2013 1:37pm
Pugwash said..

Mr Milk said..

I think that the Libs could produce a similar high speed railway system using the existing infrastructure at much lower cost. Clever suspension engineering is all that is needed.
Then again, that evacuated pipe that Egon Musk dreamed up would be a much faster system than either


The Libs version will be faster. The trains will stop at nodes, known as stations.

The Labs are planning a high speed rail to every single home. A well-timed leap from the moving train should do the trick nicely for disembarkation disembowelment.


Lol the libs version would stop 500m short of the station and transfer you to snail-back for the final leg, adding 3 hrs to each end, and making the whole thing a costly pile of p@@. You would, however, be offered the choice of paying $5000 to run your own train the last 500m to the station.
Pugwash
Pugwash
WA
7733 posts
WA, 7733 posts
27 Aug 2013 12:05pm
Clarification for kiteboy dave:

Pugwash said..

[sarcastica]The Libs version will be faster. The trains will stop at nodes, known as stations.

The Labs are planning a high speed rail to every single home. A well-timed leap from the moving train should do the trick nicely for disembarkation disembowelment.[/sarcastica]


You sound like you need some support champ Here comes the aeroplane:

kiteboy dave
kiteboy dave
QLD
6525 posts
QLD, 6525 posts
27 Aug 2013 4:59pm
Pugwash
Pugwash
WA
7733 posts
WA, 7733 posts
27 Aug 2013 3:30pm
^^^OK, sure...

evlPanda
evlPanda
NSW
9207 posts
NSW, 9207 posts
27 Aug 2013 6:37pm
kiteboy dave said..

Pugwash said..

Mr Milk said..

I think that the Libs could produce a similar high speed railway system using the existing infrastructure at much lower cost. Clever suspension engineering is all that is needed.
Then again, that evacuated pipe that Egon Musk dreamed up would be a much faster system than either


The Libs version will be faster. The trains will stop at nodes, known as stations.

The Labs are planning a high speed rail to every single home. A well-timed leap from the moving train should do the trick nicely for disembarkation disembowelment.


Lol the libs version would stop 500m short of the station and transfer you to snail-back for the final leg, adding 3 hrs to each end, and making the whole thing a costly pile of p@@. You would, however, be offered the choice of paying $5000 to run your own train the last 500m to the station.


It doesn't matter because it will all be superceded in the near future and we'll be flying in packets through the air.
GalahOnTheBay
GalahOnTheBay
NSW
4188 posts
NSW, 4188 posts
27 Aug 2013 6:51pm
Mark _australia said..
The singing and dancing mono-rail guy in The Simpsons comes to mind.


The name's Lanley, Lyle Lanley

tmurray
tmurray
WA
485 posts
WA, 485 posts
27 Aug 2013 8:11pm
Mr Milk said..

I think that the Libs could produce a similar high speed railway system using the existing infrastructure at much lower cost. Clever suspension engineering is all that is needed.
Then again, that evacuated pipe that Egon Musk dreamed up would be a much faster system than either



The coalition doesn't build infrastructure, they sell it.
kiteboy dave
kiteboy dave
QLD
6525 posts
QLD, 6525 posts
28 Aug 2013 9:19am
Pugwash said..

^^^OK, sure...



Pugwash
Pugwash
WA
7733 posts
WA, 7733 posts
28 Aug 2013 7:45am
Morning! I laughed so hard at that I had tears...

There are three points to the goldfish. One point is about written words and emotion.

The rest... Well... It's a goldfish.

Your pugwash
kiteboy dave
kiteboy dave
QLD
6525 posts
QLD, 6525 posts
28 Aug 2013 2:05pm
Glad you enjoyed, it took a few minutes of work..
Beaglebuddy
Beaglebuddy
1595 posts
1595 posts
28 Aug 2013 1:03pm
Another leftist dream to punish people for driving cars. The big benefit of a train is the easy getting on and off but a few more terrorist attacks will put an end to that, security will have to be just like getting on an airplane.
And... trains have been crashing quite a bit lately, I'll take my chances on an airplane.
What is needed are fleets of DC3/ C47 type planes that can be purchased and maintained at a fraction of the cost of modern jetliners.
They will fly at a slower speed and lower altitude and will be faster and cheaper than even the fastest train.
AndyR
AndyR
QLD
1344 posts
QLD, 1344 posts
28 Aug 2013 3:06pm
FlickySpinny said..

You haven't caught a train because there's no high-speed rail in Australia.

High-speed rail is a much nicer and usually quicker travelling experience than getting to an airport, parking your car, catching a bus to the terminal, standing in line to check in, standing in line to check in your bags, standing in line to go through security, hanging around for half an hour, etc etc etc.

I'm all for high speed rail, work in the rail industry and believe something needs to be done in AUS like in other leading rail countries but your point about, (getting to an airport, parking your car, catching a bus to the terminal, standing in line to check in, standing in line to check in your bags, standing in line to go through security, hanging around for half an hour, etc) doesn't really make sense to me..

wouldn't almost all of that still have to happen when catching a train... I believe a high speed train station in the central parts of cbd's ant going to have ample parking for commuters to drive right up to and jump on the train, still have to check in like you would a plane or interstate bus, and I would think if traveling on a train 250kmh + they would have us going through security scanning to ensure no bombs etc are being carried onboard..






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