The Topic - Boat People on xmas island about to be transported to Malaysia
The Issue - Trying to impose standards on the Malaysians which are different than they currently use for their refugees. (Talk about digging a hole!!!)
The Malays are sending police to view our handling.

The next few days are going to show force by our law enforcement people charged with enacting the new laws. - They have to have a "Get the job done" mentality or get sacked.
This will be used by the Malays to set the standard they have to adopt in Malaysia.

So if it gets rough (no brainer here!!) the Malays will record the process and use it as rebuttal if there is a problem their end.

The stage is set.. Wonder why our pollies like climbing onto self-imposed public bashing stages...

AP

I don't think you will get anywhere with that one Mobydisc but you are right in that we do need to send a firm message to potential boat people that if they come here there will be no free rides.

^^^This guys comment on that page is the way we should be heading.
Make it better where they are so that they don't want to come here or at least have no excuse for it.

quote

I think we are missing the point
Running a refugee charity in NSW I have dedicated the last 10 years to helping any way I can. While focusing on refugees is unavoidable, putting our efforts on refugees is not the solution. Until we look at new creative ways to develop countries out of poverty and humanitarian abuses refugees numbers will continue to grow and those that cant leave will have it even tougher. Our debates should not be about how they come here. Our debates should be about how to help play any role in improving where they are coming from. This will help reduce refugee numbers and possibly might be a place that both sides of this debate might agree and start to work together.

end quote

cisco said...

^^^This guys comment on that page is the way we should be heading.
Make it better where they are so that they don't want to come here or at least have no excuse for it.

quote

I think we are missing the point
Running a refugee charity in NSW I have dedicated the last 10 years to helping any way I can. While focusing on refugees is unavoidable, putting our efforts on refugees is not the solution. Until we look at new creative ways to develop countries out of poverty and humanitarian abuses refugees numbers will continue to grow and those that cant leave will have it even tougher. Our debates should not be about how they come here. Our debates should be about how to help play any role in improving where they are coming from. This will help reduce refugee numbers and possibly might be a place that both sides of this debate might agree and start to work together.

end quote

Bull**** Cisco, so now your advocating spending millions and millions more dollars in Aid money . So you and the right wing of Aussie politics are now super keen on spending tax payers dollars in overseas aidI can hear the sound of Alan Jones choking on his wheat bix

loggy, if you CAN hear that could you record it and post a link here please? I might even pay to hear it choke. I'm probably not the only one. Could be a nice little earner for you!

kiteboy dave said...
You're either a great troll or this is perhaps the single dumbest comment in the history of Seabreeze. Either way, congratulations.

How long do you think you'd last, watching someone starve at your feet, until you cracked and shared your food. 1 hour? 1 day? Not until they died in front of you?

I'm not trying to troll so its the dumbest comment ever. What I am sick of is governments getting involved with problems and not coming up with solutions. So we end up with industries developing which never become redundent and cost us all an incredible amount of money.

The idea to send refugees to Malaysia for 'processing' is crazy. It will cost a huge amount of money and will achieve nothing. People will still come. What on earth does Malaysia have in relation to dealing with these people that Australia doesn't have? Probably the nasty police and the chance your child or wife is sold into slavery. So thats the threat. Come to Australia by boat and you'll end up in a camp run by nasty Malaysians. I think I'd rather take my chances in Australia.

Sure the government not being involved will cause hardship but what is to stop private individuals or organisations trying to help if they want to? At the moment its illegal to do so as they are 'people smugglers' and on the same moral level as terrorists and child molesterers. Basically public enemy number one.

Its not as if the current system doesn't cause hardship for refugees. Locking people up for indefinite periods of time causes problems and also costs us a huge amount of money. Now they are going to be sent to a country that has no respect for refugees.

Mobydisc said...
The idea to send refugees to Malaysia for 'processing' is crazy. It will cost a huge amount of money and will achieve nothing.

It is absolute insanity. It will create the biggest and worst diplomatic can of worms ever.

Narau worked before and would work again and would be the most well spent foreign aid we could give.

cisco said...

Mobydisc said...
The idea to send refugees to Malaysia for 'processing' is crazy. It will cost a huge amount of money and will achieve nothing.

It is absolute insanity. It will create the biggest and worst diplomatic can of worms ever.

Narau worked before and would work again and would be the most well spent foreign aid we could give.

Just a question and to be honest, and I couldn't give a toss either way.
The Government of the day will do whatever they want, to appease the media pressure, so nothing we can do about it.
The other mob barking like crazy in opposition, hope it doesn't work, otherwise they are going to look a little silly. This mob in the chair haven't a bloody clue either.

However just to clarify, If it's not going to work, or it's not working, how come the people traders loaded the boat with unusual disproportionate number of so called juveniles on this load ?

The problem is that the people that are comming on the boats are running from their respective countrys. When they get here they dont want to live like us, they want live like they did at home and this county is not their original home.
I dont have a problem with people seeking refuge, but I do have a problem with them trying to live like they did in their own country.

The gov hasnt got a clue on what to do, its all just knee jerk reaction stuff and its not good enough imo..

Mobydisc said...

Personally I'd rather nothing was done when it comes to refugees. If a reffo boat rocks up at Christmas Island the government should do nothing. Don't help or hinder them. Soon they'll get the message if they turn up there its a one way trip to hell. If they want to get off the island or buy something to eat they better get a job there and start saving some money. Tell them this is how Australia works. Get a job.

Same if a boat lands on the coast. Do nothing. If they manage to get to a town and somehow survive, good on them. Welcome to Australia. Get a job. If they die in the desert, tough luck but that is what you get when you try to go somewhere and you are not adequately prepared. If they land on some offshore reef then they better get their boat going coz if they don't, that is where they will die.

Its costing us a lot of money for no apparent benefit when it comes to these people arriving by boats. Money could be better spent elsewhere and if it can't be, don't take it from Australians in the first place.

If these people knew they had to get a job or starve when they got here maybe some of them may think its not such a good idea to come to Australia.

If they are still desperate to get here then they are refugees.

Ive always wondered how many have gotten though undetected and ended up dead in the desert.

What I advocate is an open policy where there is no government/state intervention. I don't advocate an open door/free ride policy. I advocate an open door/contribution policy.

I also don't advocate people to die of starvation or drowning at sea. I advocate people take responsibility for their actions. If I decided to get on my windsurfer and sail to New Zealand then I'm an idiot and deserve to die out at sea. Similarly if I decided to get on a leaky indo fishing boat and head out into rough seas then why should I expect to be picked up on the way over by an Australian patrol boat? You are sickened by someone saying "tough luck" if they don't make it to Australia safely or die in the desert? Well we should all be sick because its probably happening quite often. Refugees are needlessly dying all over the world.


If people want to help these refugees then more power to them. However they are labelled by the government as people smugglers and criminals. Again I iterate my main point that a huge amount of our money is thrown at this problem. An industry is built up around it fully funded by us. The problem can not solved by sending them to Malaysia. We are all the poorer for it. I'd rather the money be spent on assisting those in Australia that need assistance or not be taken from Australians in the first place.

Events around the world shows government debt matters. The old Keynsean argument that government debt is irrelevant does not hold water. Government needs to look at ways to disengage itself from areas it need to be involved in. Whether this is fighting idiotic wars in the Middle East, wasting money bailing out businesses that are uncompeditive, providing welfare to people and businesses who are quite capable of supporting themselves or funding an illegal immigration industry.

Everything you say is true. So why does the government play the game they can't win? Just ignore it. Save many millions in the the process.


Btw I do know how to convert percentages to fractions but thanks for the maths tip. No need to talk down to me.

Mobydisc said...
No need to talk down to me.

Yeh sorry about that. But the heart of your first comment was the apparently serious suggestion:

"We should -deliberately- let human beings starve to death here in Australia"

And you wonder why feathers get ruffled? I stand by my reaction to that suggestion.

If I had the energy I'd take on doggie, felix & gunna's stupid ignorant small-minded incorrect statements about freezing pensioners, hospital queues, and making it like their country. But that would only be for the sake of arguing, I'm never going to change those attitudes so I can't be assed bothered.

doggie said...

confused said...

doggie said...

The problem is that the people that are comming on the boats are running from their respective countrys. When they get here they dont want to live like us, they want live like they did at home and this county is not their original home.
I dont have a problem with people seeking refuge, but I do have a problem with them trying to live like they did in their own country.

The gov hasnt got a clue on what to do, its all just knee jerk reaction stuff and its not good enough imo..

Like every non-indigenous person in Australia then? OK for us to change a way of living but not for people coming to the country now? Convenient!

Agreed, but we cant change that, we can change this.

Agreed too! Do we want to go back in the dark age? If yes then ask them to take over our political intitutions and bring the shari laws..... then we could become asylum seekers in a refugee camp in ....Vatican!

Little Jon said...

Stop the planes, that what we gotta do, stop the planes

da plane, da plane

^^^^^ -1 where is the face palm emoticon when you need it?^^^^^