Forums > Kitesurfing Foiling

The stuff of nightmares....

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Created by AquaPlow 2 months ago, 26 Apr 2021
AquaPlow
QLD, 989 posts
26 Apr 2021 5:05PM
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Never lost kite equipment to Davey J's locker...
(Plenty small stuff sunnies watches)
Today my foil board combo stayed on side and angled off upwind faster than I could body drag.. Prob 15 mins later.. Luck has it the jetski patrol was on-hand....

After chatting with KBGhost few weeks back take small set flippers in backpack.. usually take clothes in this for bus trip back after a downwinder. Was just about to get them out.. Phew..

Moved to carbon setup for weight saving.

Suggestions on solution... ?? (Fishing sinker on base of mast ??)
Cheers
AP
FWIW.. Armstrong 85 mast.. 1550 wing.. Was the problem
Went out and tested 1200 and 850.. Both these wing combo s did the usual foil down and flew off downwind in the swell..

Lambie
QLD, 736 posts
26 Apr 2021 7:55PM
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Seems the Wingding boys attach themselves via a pigs tail leash to the board ? - oh and a wrist leash to the wing ? I hate to think of the tangle in a crash!!
Boards with float and light wings dont seems to need a pilot - they simply leave you for dead!!

horey69
QLD, 451 posts
27 Apr 2021 6:21AM
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I'm not a fan of setups that float on their side, call me lazy but I like a foil that's returns to me.
Maybe the aluminium fuse isn't such a bad thing after all.
In saying the wing construction plays a massive part.
When I ding a leash is a no brainer, the lake of kite lines makes it possible.

AquaPlow
QLD, 989 posts
27 Apr 2021 10:42AM
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Agree re foil coming back2 master().. Be g8 if it held station.. When foil shot thru downwind after probably 3rd session..when starting and crash = me kite and board. I added extra safety leash and hook point to board first thing I did unless in surf zone was to hook board then sort kite..

Moved to carbon as found 72ali mast setup too heavy too hold thru swell aftr bust collar bone.. It also nearly sunk board so new board for longer mast or carbon.. Yesterday It was wind, wave, chop size and frequency..
Limited use todate, this setup drops foil down too (not had 1550 and 85 long) all been light wind days tho'
Will likely try change deck of board first .. Some form of drag to cause it to spin.. Have suspicion easiest outcome will be streamlined weight moulded on winglets of foil wing..
Suppose could practice getting flppers out while keeping kite flying.. It doesn't help having such small kite useful 4foiling not so much 4 body dragging..
Cheers
AP

KIT33R
NSW, 1705 posts
27 Apr 2021 12:04PM
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This is a common problem with very light setups. I have a full carbon foil (Armstrong hs850/hs232 85cm mast) on an Axis 125 Tray. No problem here with tracking up wind since it does not sit on its side. This was the main reason I chose the 125. Smaller boards may be an issue.

Kamikuza
QLD, 5971 posts
27 Apr 2021 8:59PM
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Enough volume in the wing will do it too -- my 820 (1500cc?) stays on its side and actively sails upwind If it's not within reach I start backstroking immediately

Guy in NZ ripped the whole foil setup out of his wingnut board and lost it... washed up on the beach several days later. Lucky bugger!

Gorgo
VIC, 4642 posts
28 Apr 2021 12:01PM
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It's not a problem, it's a feature.

If your foil floats it pretty much stays near you. You only have to drag back to it if it's upwind of you. Even then it's no harder than dragging back to a TT or surfboard. In shallow water the foil can stay up away from contact with the bottom.

If the foil is down and you lose contact with the board then it will shoot off downwind faster than you can swim after it. Every wave gives the board a push and it rises up a little on the foil and accelerates away. It's not a problem if your kite is in the air. It's a massive problem if your kite is down and you can't relaunch.

Foil down is a bit of an issue if you drop your kite in lighter winds. It's tempting to try and quickly relaunch the kite. If you fail and your board is out of reach and the foil is down you will never catch it.

Conversely, if you're practicing tacks or other looping moves it's great to have the foil down. It comes back to you like a naughty puppy as you wait downwind for it.

I think the foil sailing off upwind thing is a bit of a myth. It just looks that way when you're down in the water. The solution is to get more foiling experience and learn to deal with all the little glitches that can happen.

airsail
QLD, 655 posts
28 Apr 2021 5:36PM
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Large kites and large floating foils are a bad combination. I had an issue where after coming off in light wind it was impossible to body drag upwind to the board. It took another kiter to get my board back to me.
I now use a large area but thin sinking wing in the ultra light stuff.

dafish
NSW, 1558 posts
29 Apr 2021 7:55AM
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Select to expand quote
Gorgo said..
It's not a problem, it's a feature.

If your foil floats it pretty much stays near you. You only have to drag back to it if it's upwind of you. Even then it's no harder than dragging back to a TT or surfboard. In shallow water the foil can stay up away from contact with the bottom.

If the foil is down and you lose contact with the board then it will shoot off downwind faster than you can swim after it. Every wave gives the board a push and it rises up a little on the foil and accelerates away. It's not a problem if your kite is in the air. It's a massive problem if your kite is down and you can't relaunch.

Foil down is a bit of an issue if you drop your kite in lighter winds. It's tempting to try and quickly relaunch the kite. If you fail and your board is out of reach and the foil is down you will never catch it.

Conversely, if you're practicing tacks or other looping moves it's great to have the foil down. It comes back to you like a naughty puppy as you wait downwind for it.

I think the foil sailing off upwind thing is a bit of a myth. It just looks that way when you're down in the water. The solution is to get more foiling experience and learn to deal with all the little glitches that can happen.


Uhm, not so. I have witnessed personally an Axis board and foil sail upwind out of reach from the foiler and keep heading out to sea. I had to chase it down for my friend. He was not happy as it had already happened once before. Had I not been there I would have thought that it could never happen. Until it did. I have an Armstrong all carbon setup on 1 meter pocket board and it has not happened, thought the biggest wing I use is a 1250. I could see it happen with some of the bigger wings, though saying that the dude who nearly lost his rig had an aluminum mast and a smaller front wing, I would guess around the 900 size. This phenomenon is real.

Kamikuza
QLD, 5971 posts
29 Apr 2021 12:35PM
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Select to expand quote
dafish said...
Uhm, not so. I have witnessed personally an Axis board and foil sail upwind out of reach from the foiler and keep heading out to sea. I had to chase it down for my friend. He was not happy as it had already happened once before. Had I not been there I would have thought that it could never happen. Until it did. I have an Armstrong all carbon setup on 1 meter pocket board and it has not happened, thought the biggest wing I use is a 1250. I could see it happen with some of the bigger wings, though saying that the dude who nearly lost his rig had an aluminum mast and a smaller front wing, I would guess around the 900 size. This phenomenon is real.


Like I said, if the wing has the right (wrong!) volume, it'll float on its side and sail upwind. My 820 does it all the time,

Less volume and the wing will sink. More volume and the whole wing will float with the nose of the board up in the air

AquaPlow
QLD, 989 posts
17 May 2021 7:34AM
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Bit more grms than anticipated
Thoughts on options??
Cheers
AP












hilly
WA, 6132 posts
17 May 2021 9:45AM
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Select to expand quote
AquaPlow said..
Bit more grms than anticipated
Thoughts on options??
Cheers
AP













I assume that is your light wind setup as it is bigger than my wingding foil. Why not use a leash? I know in strong wind it is dangerous but light wind foiling should be fine. Coil leash to ankle. Used a leash on a surfboard when I kited sketchy spots, you get used to it. Connected to harness might be better.

AquaPlow
QLD, 989 posts
31 May 2021 10:24PM
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Almost there..Boat prop shaft anode..
In sea water.. Didn't quite drop foil .. In pool a few sloppy waves and bingo. No noise.. Infact didn't notice at all when foiling.. But hate to get that cracker hitting my head.





Cheers
AP

dafish
NSW, 1558 posts
1 Jun 2021 7:44AM
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I honestly don't see how you could not notice the performance difference with that weight and what it does to your laminar flow. Are you only experiencing this phenom on the HS1550 and above size wings? Have you considered a wing ding leash that goes around your waist? Seriously though, if you don't notice it, and it works, good for you for finding a solution.

CJ2478
NSW, 450 posts
1 Jun 2021 8:43AM
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Select to expand quote
AquaPlow said..
Almost there..Boat prop shaft anode..
In sea water.. Didn't quite drop foil .. In pool a few sloppy waves and bingo. No noise.. Infact didn't notice at all when foiling.. But hate to get that cracker hitting my head.





Cheers
AP


is this a joke?

Swavek
WA, 383 posts
13 Jun 2021 6:51AM
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It must depend on the board/foil combination too. I used to have Moses 633 with a small home made board. The rig floated on the side but never took off upwind on me. This was my learning days and it spend a lot of time on the side

My current Armstrong 85 cm mast, 1550 wing, 60 cm fuse, 232 tail floats on the side with Carbonco 120 Vape board for say 30-40 sec but then goes vertical. When floating on the side, it does not go 'fast upwind'.

Maybe try a different board?

I am surprised that you don't notice your 'sinker' on the fuse - small piece of grass around the mast or wing is so noticeable straight away, would have expected a big extra piece on the fuse be unacceptable for the foil performance .

AquaPlow
QLD, 989 posts
13 Jun 2021 12:53PM
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Re.. Noticing ..
I swapped kit same session.. Moses racing setup.. Way smaller wing probably 5-700 cms2. First I was a bit under powered (8m Peak4) on start constantly stalling out till dialled in wind angles and speed.. Then the humming first time come across this.. Noisy as... But not annoyingly so...

I added strip of board protector tape to leading edge on my first rig SS INFINITY 76 No noise or obvious consequence.
Reason.. gob smacked end one early session when found the wing tip missing.. Lake weyba is basically sludgey cling on mud once u get waist deep.. touch depth everywhere.. And assume occasional rock..

The position of weight which is streamlined on Armstrong fuse is optimal.. I plan to glass correct weight on under surface of wing close as possible to centre as possible mimic ing camber on top surface.. In Qld often dealing with bottom end marginal conditions... So 1550 is g8 4 this...
Cheers
AP

Leighbreeze
NSW, 486 posts
19 Jun 2021 10:35PM
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Select to expand quote
AquaPlow said..
Re.. Noticing ..
I swapped kit same session.. Moses racing setup.. Way smaller wing probably 5-700 cms2. First I was a bit under powered (8m Peak4) on start constantly stalling out till dialled in wind angles and speed.. Then the humming first time come across this.. Noisy as... But not annoyingly so...

I added strip of board protector tape to leading edge on my first rig SS INFINITY 76 No noise or obvious consequence.
Reason.. gob smacked end one early session when found the wing tip missing.. Lake weyba is basically sludgey cling on mud once u get waist deep.. touch depth everywhere.. And assume occasional rock..

The position of weight which is streamlined on Armstrong fuse is optimal.. I plan to glass correct weight on under surface of wing close as possible to centre as possible mimic ing camber on top surface.. In Qld often dealing with bottom end marginal conditions... So 1550 is g8 4 this...
Cheers
AP


Light wind use a winging waist leash coiled or straight attached to side or rear of harness then rear plug on tail of the board.
Any additional drag attached to a foil of any type will affect performance.
Stronger wind body drag to board.IMO

airsail
QLD, 655 posts
20 Jun 2021 4:34AM
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Floating foils and light wind is a real issue. Luckily I learned about it with others around. I was out on a 15mtr Sonic and a floating foil in the light stuff, came off the foil, nothing unusual. Tried for awhile to body drag back to the board but there wasn't enough power in the wind to get to the board. Luckily a mate saw my problem and brought the foil downwind to me.

Now I always use a thin non floating wing from Lift in the light stuff, it's still just over 800sqcm so still gets me going easily.



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Forums > Kitesurfing Foiling


"The stuff of nightmares...." started by AquaPlow