Forums > Kitesurfing General

Neck/Upper Back Injury

Reply
Created by Spitfire > 9 months ago, 28 Apr 2014
Spitfire
WA, 334 posts
28 Apr 2014 2:49AM
Thumbs Up

Just wondering if anyone else in the kiting world has had problems with their neck. This is the third issue I have had where I feel something let go in my neck when kiting and all the muscles in my upper back tense up. It?s not too bad at the actual time but by the time I have packed up and driving home I can hardly turn my head( Checking the mirrors on the freeway was fun) !!

Have been kiting for two and a half years now. But have spent a lot of time on the water. Come to think of it I probably should be a much better kiter than what I am!! I don?t do any overly extreme stuff. Some pretty hard landing and front rolls have put it out once before. I think It might have something to do with looking for the kite while in the air or when spinning and trying to work out where the kite is ( back roll kiteloops) ?..the truth is I?m not too sure what it is I?m doing which aggravates it. The first time it happened I had to take a week off work due to the Valium the doctor gave me to release the muscle spasms. Had a heap of physio and thought it was all good then hurt it again. Not as bad as before but tweaked it a little bit. Then on Monday In Gero I went for a kite, 25knots on my 10 which was fun but hurt it once again?..back to the physio and needed more time off work. Really depressed to think that I might not be able to kite and do something that I genuinely love. Doctor thinks that I may have a bulging disk?.where the physio thinks it?s just muscle tightness due to being too tight and inflexible.

I was thinking that maybe if I bought a new harness which has the hook lower ( seat ) and one which had a sliding bar so I wouldn?t need to look over my shoulder for so long and my upper back wouldn?t be as tight as my arms would be lower if the hook on the harness was?.I might be able to limit the stress I put on my neck and upper back.

Just after some thoughts and advise.

Cheers.

Sam

windreams
QLD, 258 posts
28 Apr 2014 10:20AM
Thumbs Up

Mate here’s my humble advice… You have been carrying this injury for a while, the physo and doctor are not getting anywhere quick and you’re getting conflicting diagnosis, so do yourself a favour and ask your doctor for a referral to do a scan/ mri or whatever is needed to tell you what is going on, at least you will know exactly what you’re up against.

I say this from experience as I have been dealing with pain in my elbow and to keep the story short I’ve tried doctor’s, physo’s, acupuncture, chiro’s, chinese herbalist’s, arm bands, compression, heat, cold, sports rubs, anti-inflammatory’s, stopped all sports except running…. getting the picture?? Meanwhile everyone’s taking my money and giving me different opinions, so this week I’m doing exactly what I said above; I’ll stop paying people to guess (probably not the correct word to use, “give their opinion”) and I’m having a scan to find out what’s really happening to my elbow so I can target the best method to fix it. Good luck

BennyB12
QLD, 918 posts
28 Apr 2014 10:31AM
Thumbs Up

I'm going through upper back pain at the moment. If you've been going through this for a while you probably know that your muscles are tensing around the injury to prevent further damage. My problem is getting better by the day with physio so I'm hopeful that its just muscle but it does sound like time for a scan in your case. Im no doctor but at least this way you'll know 100% what you're up against....

Charl dv
WA, 2485 posts
28 Apr 2014 9:18AM
Thumbs Up

windreams is pretty much spot on.
But to help reduce the tension in the muscles get a cricket ball and put it up against the wall and roll it over your tight spots and work the muscles so the knots release. Move across the muscle fibres and do it every day along with a decent stretch every morning. Should do a lot of chest stretching as well as most kiters end up too tight across the chest and it can affect your upper back quite a bit.

cbulota
WA, 1144 posts
28 Apr 2014 10:12AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Charl dv said..

windreams is pretty much spot on.
But to help reduce the tension in the muscles get a cricket ball and put it up against the wall and roll it over your tight spots and work the muscles so the knots release. Move across the muscle fibres and do it every day along with a decent stretch every morning. Should do a lot of chest stretching as well as most kiters end up too tight across the chest and it can affect your upper back quite a bit.


yep

www.hartsport.com.au/products/2-055

try getting one of these hard foam rollers. They can be a bit hard to find but an awesome way to relieve sore backs from kiting, works a treat for me

Triggerhappy
WA, 174 posts
28 Apr 2014 2:11PM
Thumbs Up

If you have difficulty looking over your shoulder ie pain and stiffness then you need to see a Chiropractor, they will realign your vertebrate in your neck and back... It will improve your mobility immensely and instantaneously .... Physios and doctors are good at other things not your skeleton..... If you live in south perth i recommend www.hiltonchiropractic.com.au he is hockey mate of mine and fixes my neck/back every 6 odd months.

hundshize
WA, 13 posts
28 Apr 2014 5:29PM
Thumbs Up

100% with Windreams on the requirement for a scan.....MRI before anything else.
I've been through this sort of thing myself.....my story reads just as Windreams does.
Without a scan, they're all just giving their educated best guess.....

coastflyer
SA, 542 posts
28 Apr 2014 7:27PM
Thumbs Up

I put my lower back out about 12 months ago and could hardly walk for a few days. Switched to a good Dakine seat harness and also started taking 1000mg Krill oil tablets once a day. After three weeks, no pain and other minor joint pains disappeared! I'm not sure of your age, but certainly when you get into your later years, (like me!), you have to really take care of yourself.

DelFuego
WA, 111 posts
28 Apr 2014 9:09PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
samokta said..

......... The first time it happened I had to take a week off work due to the Valium the doctor gave me to release the muscle spasms. ..........

Cheers.

Sam


i haven't heard of Valium to relax muscle spasms before.
normally they would say anti inflammatories

beefarmer
WA, 209 posts
28 Apr 2014 9:29PM
Thumbs Up

I've been putting up with major neck stiffness + soreness for 4 years now, kiting related (basically multiple whiplash injuries from kiting stacks that started it). Paddling on a surfboard is the worst activity for me now and really sets it off if i surf for more than an hour or so. For me the neck just seizes up the morning after a surf or taking a few hits on the twintip.

Despite this I've learnt a few tricks to manage it over the years.

1 - warm it up good after a heavy session, or whenever its sore. Wheat bags or hot water bottles, whatever you can get. Then stretch. Yoga is good.

2 - don't push it - if its sore give it a rest. For me it can take a week or two. One key thing for me has been finding other activities that don't put so much stress on the neck. E.g. SUP instead of surfing has been great. And kiting on a surfboard is way easier on the neck than twintip riding (less stacks)

3 - if it fully locks up, get some treatment ASAP. Physio, massage, whatever you can arrange asap.

4 - Hows your pillow? I've got one thats just right for me, took me lots of trial and error to find it. Whenever i get stuck somewhere without it guaranteed I'll wake up with a stiff neck the next day.

I'd agree with the above, get whatever scans you can (maybe a simple x-ray will reveal something, and you should be able to do it straight away).

In my case I've seen many chiros, physios, regular doctors, remedial massuers etc. etc. all with varying success.

The best has been an oesteopath in bayswater - Andrew Yaksich - really good at releasing tense muscles after they lock up. These guys are genuine medical practitioners, not modern day whichdoctors. Highly recommended.

The best physio I've had is a bloke in Geraldton - Jason Potts at Geraldton physio - for giving stretches / exercises etc you can do to build up strength in the long term. Theres also a really good Remedial Massage bloke in Gero - Phil Collins - works out of the Geraldton Chiropractic clinic. who's very good. (He's a bit alternative though he'll try to shoot lasers at you and scan you with magnets as well as actually fix the problem).

Chiros didn't do much for me to be honest, plus several physios I've been to that just do some physical manipulation (physically unlock the vertebrae) then say she'll be right.

Good luck

cauncy
WA, 6177 posts
28 Apr 2014 10:45PM
Thumbs Up

Take the guess work out of it, get an MRI , ct scans use a huge amount of radiation , but be prepared for what they might show, a good physio will help along with certain aids, but usually it's an underlying problem, bad posture, poor physical condition , poor sleeping position, working positions, the list goes on, look at the layout of your body's muscles and nerves it's no wonder we get grief from time to time, I've suffered with lower back dramas for years and have focused on the muscle groups around that injury, also warm up prior to a session, big pottsy at gero physio as mentioned has helped me in the past along with max with kiting injuries , but the most painful part is not being on the water

Spitfire
WA, 334 posts
29 Apr 2014 1:59AM
Thumbs Up

First I would like to thank everyone for their opinion and advise. I went to a physio on Sunday ( not the normal one I have been going to ) and all he wanted to do was get me back in for 5 sessions. He was way more interested in my wallet and his cash flow than my neck issue.

As bad as it sounds, I?m glad there are people out there with similar issues. The first time round I didn?t go to the doctor for a few days and went to the physio first. Went to the doctor, after my work made me?.Doctor gave me anti-inflammatory, painkillers and Diazepam ( valium ). The valium worked wonders. A few days on the couch ( and in the clouds ) released all the tense muscles in my shoulder and healed me much quicker than just anti-inflammatory by themselves. At the time of the first injury I was working on the tools in quite a heavy industry. I am now an office jockey so that should give me a little bit more time to heal my body as if it happens again I could probably handle the pain when I?m at work whereas before?..not a chance. Im only 30 years old so I need to get this sorted?..i want to be kiting for many years yet!!

I will head to the doctors and see if I can get a referral for a MRI. Should I go when the problem is in full force or will it show up whenever?

Haven?t had any chiros?maybe something I could look into. The physio cracked my neck a few times with a big crunch?.now my neck cracks and crunches every time I move it slowly left and right?.not sure what?s going on in there?.doesn?t sound good though.

Beefarmer --- Your story sounds very similar to mine. I will make sure I look into getting a better pillow. When my neck is sore I can normal judge what sort of day I?m going to have pain wise on how it feels to roll over in bed.

If anyone sees someone kiting next around the metro area in a neck brace?..that will be me ?

windreams
QLD, 258 posts
29 Apr 2014 10:16AM
Thumbs Up

Samokta, I’ve got 10 + years on you but have gone through simular muscle problems probably because in my thirties I became a lazy couch slob and then got back into fitness including kiting in my forties. What I found is there’s no golden cure for the “general” muscle stiffness I get but if I don’t keep on top of it I will get to the situation you’re in.

Not everyone’s the same and will respond better to different treatments so you have to find out what’s best for you but this is what works for me; During the kiting season I’ll get a deep tissue massage at least once a month and I’ll mix in a chiro and acupuncture visit as needed but be aware there is a difference between acupuncture and dry needling (sorry physio’s but you do little for me). At home I’ll do stretches and exercises on the roller and ball a few times a week as mentioned in prior posts. All of this sounds like a lot but it’s really bugger all to keep me kiting and the roller/ ball stuff can be done in front of the tv.

Just a couple of other things; be careful with your desk job because what I found was the mouse and keyboard action, 8 hours a day gave me tight arms, shoulders and back so I purchased an ergonomic mouse that helped. It sounds like I’m falling apart but I’m actually quite fit and only need to put some time aside to keep the muscles free. One last tip; I’ve managed to find people (chiro and acupuncturist) that are competent in massage as well and that makes a big difference in treatment outcomes, hope you can find the same. Ask the doctor about preparation for the scan…

bene313
WA, 1341 posts
29 Apr 2014 9:40AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
cbulota said..
yep

www.hartsport.com.au/products/2-055

try getting one of these hard foam rollers. They can be a bit hard to find but an awesome way to relieve sore backs from kiting, works a treat for me




Most physios sell the foam roller.

I lie on the floor on my back and put a rubber bouncy ball under my shoulder. Move around on that, ouch.

bene313
WA, 1341 posts
29 Apr 2014 9:46AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
samokta said..

First I would like to thank everyone for their opinion and advise. I went to a physio on Sunday ( not the normal one I have been going to ) and all he wanted to do was get me back in for 5 sessions. He was way more interested in my wallet and his cash flow than my neck issue.



Find a different physio. A good physio will locate the problem and likely where you do not expect it. Eg stiff upper back/neck can often come from an over-worked front deltoid or jaw muscle. Massage to a stubborn tight quad may do little, but strengthening the glute will free up a tight quad immensely.

Do some research on trigger point therapy, grab a bouncy ball and find some trigger points to release the tight spots.

Charl dv
WA, 2485 posts
29 Apr 2014 11:56AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
bene313 said..

cbulota said..
yep

www.hartsport.com.au/products/2-055

try getting one of these hard foam rollers. They can be a bit hard to find but an awesome way to relieve sore backs from kiting, works a treat for me




Most physios sell the foam roller.

I lie on the floor on my back and put a rubber bouncy ball under my shoulder. Move around on that, ouch.


So does Ebay, Try getting a Rumble Roller if possible.

And I agree with TriggerHappy about seeing a Chiro, the instant result is great but you still HAVE to stretch and improve your muscles to keep everything balanced, if you have an imbalance in your muscles the problem just keeps recurring after a few months. been struggling with this for a few years now until I saw someone that put it into perspective for me.

TPM79
QLD, 12 posts
1 May 2014 3:43PM
Thumbs Up



Select to expand quote
samokta said..

Just wondering if anyone else in the kiting world has had problems with their neck. This is the third issue I have had where I feel something let go in my neck when kiting and all the muscles in my upper back tense up. It?s not too bad at the actual time but by the time I have packed up and driving home I can hardly turn my head( Checking the mirrors on the freeway was fun) !!

Have been kiting for two and a half years now. But have spent a lot of time on the water. Come to think of it I probably should be a much better kiter than what I am!! I don?t do any overly extreme stuff. Some pretty hard landing and front rolls have put it out once before. I think It might have something to do with looking for the kite while in the air or when spinning and trying to work out where the kite is ( back roll kiteloops) ?..the truth is I?m not too sure what it is I?m doing which aggravates it. The first time it happened I had to take a week off work due to the Valium the doctor gave me to release the muscle spasms. Had a heap of physio and thought it was all good then hurt it again. Not as bad as before but tweaked it a little bit. Then on Monday In Gero I went for a kite, 25knots on my 10 which was fun but hurt it once again?..back to the physio and needed more time off work. Really depressed to think that I might not be able to kite and do something that I genuinely love. Doctor thinks that I may have a bulging disk?.where the physio thinks it?s just muscle tightness due to being too tight and inflexible.

I was thinking that maybe if I bought a new harness which has the hook lower ( seat ) and one which had a sliding bar so I wouldn?t need to look over my shoulder for so long and my upper back wouldn?t be as tight as my arms would be lower if the hook on the harness was?.I might be able to limit the stress I put on my neck and upper back.

Just after some thoughts and advise.

Cheers.

Sam


Hey mate, I had the same problem as you when I first started Kite Surfing, I quickly realized it was my waist harness, now I just use a seat harness and I now my neck and upper back is just fine. So throw away that waist harness and get yourself a good seat harness, problem fixed. Hope this helps. Cheers

RandySweeney
WA, 1 posts
28 May 2014 7:55PM
Thumbs Up

Hi, It totally depend upon the seriousness of your problem. If its minor then you can see a nice chiropractor for neck pain. Chiropractor will do MRI, CT scan or X-ray for it and according to the report they will suggest you the treatment. For further detail visit www.cfchiro1.com.

29 May 2014 12:39AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
samokta said..

Just wondering if anyone else in the kiting world has had problems with their neck. This is the third issue I have had where I feel something let go in my neck when kiting and all the muscles in my upper back tense up. It?s not too bad at the actual time but by the time I have packed up and driving home I can hardly turn my head( Checking the mirrors on the freeway was fun) !!

Have been kiting for two and a half years now. But have spent a lot of time on the water. Come to think of it I probably should be a much better kiter than what I am!! I don?t do any overly extreme stuff. Some pretty hard landing and front rolls have put it out once before. I think It might have something to do with looking for the kite while in the air or when spinning and trying to work out where the kite is ( back roll kiteloops) ?..the truth is I?m not too sure what it is I?m doing which aggravates it. The first time it happened I had to take a week off work due to the Valium the doctor gave me to release the muscle spasms. Had a heap of physio and thought it was all good then hurt it again. Not as bad as before but tweaked it a little bit. Then on Monday In Gero I went for a kite, 25knots on my 10 which was fun but hurt it once again?..back to the physio and needed more time off work. Really depressed to think that I might not be able to kite and do something that I genuinely love. Doctor thinks that I may have a bulging disk?.where the physio thinks it?s just muscle tightness due to being too tight and inflexible.

I was thinking that maybe if I bought a new harness which has the hook lower ( seat ) and one which had a sliding bar so I wouldn?t need to look over my shoulder for so long and my upper back wouldn?t be as tight as my arms would be lower if the hook on the harness was?.I might be able to limit the stress I put on my neck and upper back.

Just after some thoughts and advise.

Cheers.

Sam


By all means get it checked properly with a doctor, but also get this book and begin a daily (even multiple times daily) stretching routine.
www.booktopia.com.au/anatomy-of-stretching-craig-ramsay/prod9781743521113.html?source=pla&gclid=CNyJs4vezr4CFVZ8vQodr6wA6Q

You can get away with not stretching daily/regularly when you are young and in your teens and even into mid to late twenties, but after that you need to stretch at least 1 session per day of 30 mins or more. Hatha Yoga is also worth studying and combining with stretches from the book above.

pearl
NSW, 968 posts
29 May 2014 7:33AM
Thumbs Up

MRI and if you want to self treat; buy yourself a TENS machine. It will relax the muscles and scramble the pain impulse going to brain, but won't solve the core problem if there is damage.
www.ebay.com.au/itm/TENS-MACHINE-PHYSIO-TENS-Unit-Easy-Use-BEST-PRICE-free-postage-physio-support-/290949643904?pt=AU_Medical_Special_Needs&hash=item43bdf33e80

Have bought that stretching book...thanks for that link.

Gazuki
WA, 734 posts
29 May 2014 10:04AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
DelFuego said..
samokta said..



......... The first time it happened I had to take a week off work due to the Valium the doctor gave me to release the muscle spasms. ..........



Cheers.



Sam

i haven't heard of Valium to relax muscle spasms before.

normally they would say anti inflammatories


Thats what Valium is,.. a muscle relaxant (Diazepam) Its awesome in acute episode where the spasm is causing the pain.

eibwen
WA, 112 posts
29 May 2014 1:03PM
Thumbs Up

squats, deadlifts & clean and jerk

SimonDreyer
WA, 82 posts
29 May 2014 1:23PM
Thumbs Up

I don't mean to trivialise what you are going through but try and actively relax while you are kiting, we tend to tense up because of the adrenalin. I had a similar problem with my hands when I raced motoX, to the stage where once my hands were so tense at the end of a race that I had to get someone else to physically unwrap my fingers from the bars. I practiced actively relaxing my hands untill it became second nature.

brady
TAS, 424 posts
30 May 2014 12:26PM
Thumbs Up

A lot of people raving about MRIs

The big problem with MRIs is that they ALWAYS show something. That information frequently DOES NOT HELP

A recent study to show a point (sorry to introduce technical gabage like research).

The scaphoid bone is in your wrist, and vulnerable to fracture. The fracture is often not seen on Xray when the Xray is first done. We always used to just put everyone with a possible fracture in a plaster for a week and a half, then reassess. If they were OK then off would come the plaster and people would be back to full activities

A reasonable proportion of people never had a fractrue and therefore did not need a plaster

A recent study using MRI has demonstrated so many patterns of injury we never found before including unheard of concepts like "bone bruising". The research shows that if they all get MRI scans, MORE people spend MORE time in plaster and MORE time off work than with the old approach. They spend MORE time at clinics waiting to see specialists, it costs the patients MORE money and it costs the health system MORE money.

There is no improvement in peoples level of function after the injury.


Similar sorts of things have been demonstrated with spinal imaging. So yeah, feel free to fork out and get a scan. It WILL show pathology. Someone somewhere sometime will offer you an operation/procedure/injection. This may or may not help - no-one has any way of knowing

Strecthing/warm-ups and working out changes to your technique/style will almost definitely be an important part of the process. For my recurring shoulder injury, the best change I have made was to buy a SUP paddle with a smaller blade - it has given me a more open stance and made a huge difference. A scan would not have given me any useful information about my paddle



Subscribe
Reply

Forums > Kitesurfing General


"Neck/Upper Back Injury" started by Spitfire