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Smaller kites bigger directionals

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Created by dazza5172 5 months ago, 14 May 2017
dazza5172
SA, 308 posts
14 May 2017 3:14PM
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Every year my kites gets smaller as the tech improves

I just keep thinking smaller kites and bigger directionals

In strong winds my 24lt board and a 6m kite which I love - is the bomb, but its more like a power session.
So when the wind is 15-25 that same kite has the potential for a surfboard that might be few litres less than my regular small paddle surf board - at present my big kiteboard is about 26L but at this volume you are still relying on more wind power for planning and going up wind - then freeing up the kite on surfing the wave the board will be too small (unless you are powered with the kite - which is not what we want)

So I am thinking my paddle surfboard is 32L, therefore my larger kite directional surfboard should be about 28-30L - then use 6m kite
Rocker line and dedicated kite tech is going to work a little better than just jumping on my smallest surfboard; which we have all done and then it seems to get a bit corky.

Thoughts and experience?

Dazz

Youngbreezy
279 posts
14 May 2017 3:17PM
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I'm definitely keen on bigger boards smaller kites for the surf it just makes sense to me. I am hoping to get in some gusty storm kiting tomorrow and it's gotta be safer with a smaller kite at least to an extent.

I have often wondered just how big of a board you could functionallly use for wave kiting if you were going for really light winds. What about a super light weight one/no strut kite and a bigger vanguard style board, that could be epic if it works

I have a bigger board that I use its a bws/dhd white noise at around 30lt. I often feel like it has a narrow sweet spot between being too underpowered and not being able to stay upwind easily then When I am riding well I am overpowered on the wave and am having trouble really digging in on my turns, when it's just right having the bigger more volume board feels awesome on the wave though

Peahi
VIC, 823 posts
14 May 2017 5:33PM
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My favourite board is a standard 5'11" vader 39.5L can get doing in as low as 15kn and a 10m kite so I can easily use a 7 in 25kn. Its too much fun to jump on in lighter winds but it has had 2 deck repairs from jumping (and the bottom cracked from surf). When the wind is up its too light and gets taken by the wind, that's when I bring out the heavier and smaller boards of kiteboard construction. But definitely larger board and smaller kite is a much more fun combo as long as its not a pig heavy kiteboard, especially some of the firewire kite constructions.

toppleover
QLD, 1208 posts
14 May 2017 6:19PM
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Kite construction FW Evo in 5'3" is 27.4L & because of shape/construction feels like more foam.
IMO, makes a great kite/paddle board if your around 73kg.
The Helium Tech is available now, so lighter than the older FST boards.

RosieKB
VIC, 222 posts
14 May 2017 7:06PM
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I'm looking at the Firewire Evo too.

Are the Kite construction Firewire boards needed? Has anyone had a surf construction firewire board last more than a year or two of strapless kiting?

LeighMajor
NSW, 176 posts
14 May 2017 7:14PM
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Great thread.
Kiting is so full of variables.
Line length,kite size, board size.
100 Kgs ,Vanguard 5'11" ,35ltrs,Quad or thruster depending on waves.
Strapless Lighter wind special for my size.
Kite size depending on wind strength.
Jump on a 5'5" Vanguard or Evo when above 15kts.
Or a TT session when the opportunity knocks.
Always wondered how my 6'8" Firewire paddle in would go in even lighter conditions.

Peahi
VIC, 823 posts
14 May 2017 8:34PM
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In desperation have used an ordinary 6'8" timbertek firewire board. Sure you get going but its slow and there is a lot of drag.


Select to expand quote
LeighMajor said..
Always wondered how my 6'8" Firewire paddle in would go in even lighter conditions.


Peahi
VIC, 823 posts
14 May 2017 8:40PM
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Select to expand quote
RosieKB said..
Are the Kite construction Firewire boards needed? Has anyone had a surf construction firewire board last more than a year or two of strapless kiting?


Yeah but you need to go for the timbertek or FST which are a bit heavier. Had a plain LFT Vanguard once it seemed to handle all the knocks much better than my current Vader which cracks just by looking at it. Now got an old Lost Mayhem (with original vent plug), seems pretty bulletproof.

Youngbreezy
279 posts
14 May 2017 11:43PM
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Select to expand quote
LeighMajor said..
Great thread.
Kiting is so full of variables.
Line length,kite size, board size.
100 Kgs ,Vanguard 5'11" ,35ltrs,Quad or thruster depending on waves.
Strapless Lighter wind special for my size.
Kite size depending on wind strength.
Jump on a 5'5" Vanguard or Evo when above 15kts.
Or a TT session when the opportunity knocks.
Always wondered how my 6'8" Firewire paddle in would go in even lighter conditions.


Yes!! A 5'11 vanguard in lighter winds sounds amazing what kites are you flying with this

Plummet
3924 posts
15 May 2017 1:38AM
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Go hydrofoil for 15 knots.

SaveTheWhales
WA, 1483 posts
15 May 2017 6:22AM
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Lots of variables.. bottom efficiency.
At 77kg I bought the Ocean Rodeo Duke 5'4 25L surfboard with the huge concave and use it with a 7-9m, planes very early and will go upwind when others are walking back.
To me the it felt like too much volume so I bought the 5'1 17L O.R Jester - perfect blend of early planning and sits well in the wave.
A few of the big guys tried the Duke in light winds and were very suprised..

LeighMajor
NSW, 176 posts
15 May 2017 11:23AM
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Select to expand quote
Youngbreezy said..


LeighMajor said..
Great thread.
Kiting is so full of variables.
Line length,kite size, board size.
100 Kgs ,Vanguard 5'11" ,35ltrs,Quad or thruster depending on waves.
Strapless Lighter wind special for my size.
Kite size depending on wind strength.
Jump on a 5'5" Vanguard or Evo when above 15kts.
Or a TT session when the opportunity knocks.
Always wondered how my 6'8" Firewire paddle in would go in even lighter conditions.




Yes!! A 5'11 vanguard in lighter winds sounds amazing what kites are you flying with this



Hey mate,
Kite wise between my wife and I ,ozone Enduros from 7-8-9-10-12 or 2017 Cat 14m sometimes a Zephyr 17m if really light.
Usually grab about 4 kites and a couple of boards,tts

Youngbreezy
279 posts
15 May 2017 9:32AM
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I totally agree volume is certainly not the defining factor in the design of the board and how well it works as a kiteboard, it definitely plays an important role and has a big effect on the feel of a board particularly on a wave

I have a 5'6 vanguard ( favourite kiteboard ever ) and a 6'1 bws/ dhd White noise- the White noise is Bigger wider and has more volume but the vanguard has way better low end because it has such a low drag design and it points so nicely upwind. I also have a 5'5 nugget which due to its width and volume coupled with the flat rocker beats the vanguard in absolute low end.

What I would be interested to see would be how big of a kite directional you could go for if you designed something purpose built to eat up the light winds.

I would imagine definitely a parallel rail/ vanguard design around 6ft x 22 wide or so with less than 40l volume and maybe a pulled in flyer/ stepped in tail with a lot of edge to still give the control. Then I'm out kiting super smooth light wind cross off indo waves with my 12m airush ultra ( sorry guys I just started daydreaming)

also plummet I definitely want to get into some hydrofoiling but I am still waiting a little to get into that as I don't have the time to put in right now

wishy
WA, 1190 posts
15 May 2017 1:40PM
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Surf kiting is a waste of time.
How are you meant to get decent air when you're riding WITH the wave, you should be riding AT it, with boots on and a 10m kite in 35 knots.

RosieKB
VIC, 222 posts
15 May 2017 4:04PM
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I was thinking Vadar until I checked out the Evo - looks good , wish there was somewhere to try out in Vic. Any suggestions

Peahi
VIC, 823 posts
15 May 2017 9:41PM
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Select to expand quote
RosieKB said..
I was thinking Vadar until I checked out the Evo - looks good , wish there was somewhere to try out in Vic. Any suggestions


Mordy hire out demo boards for 50 and take it off the price if you buy it. I have a asked a few surf shops they all seem to do this now. As kiters we're pretty lucky to be able to demo gear at no cost.

Plummet
3924 posts
16 May 2017 12:07AM
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Select to expand quote
wishy said..
Surf kiting is a waste of time.
How are you meant to get decent air when you're riding WITH the wave, you should be riding AT it, with boots on and a 10m kite in 35 knots.


The answer to that is to do both! boost like fark on the way out and on the way back on entertain yourself with the lack of ramps by riding the wave back in!

Now what type of board would be good at that?
Oh yes! a quality mutant!

dazza5172
SA, 308 posts
17 May 2017 10:23AM
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Kiting seems to take the variables so far that boards show up so many issues in the wide variation of power and conditions.
You have one session and think the board is the best and then next session the conditions are so different (even with similar winds) you feel this time it's a bit corky or you can't stay up wind.
It seems with wave kiting that there is a magic comfort zone and we froth over it but with onshore, side shore, side off, gusty, fronts, heavy chop and all those variables so often you are not feeling it.
Then you dial it in and pick the kite and board and half an hour later the wind drops or kicks and the comfort is gone.
Fins potentially can make up something but the puzzle gets bigger.

This new season I am going to try a larger kite directional than recommended for my weight (around 28L standard surfboard kite shape) and work around some fin options and see just what I can get out of the small kite. (Its 2 litres more than my 'larger' kiteboard but I am thinking less kite power and more wave riding feel = less corky feel / better rail bite.

My son has a 28L Grav paddle board; I am going to jump on and see if the volume is okay first, that might help

I suppose the best thing is have a bivouac and get as many on the beach with all the boards and do a whip round session and compare volume and shape.

Daz

gcdave
QLD, 518 posts
17 May 2017 12:17PM
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Heres my 2c

I think there too much focus on the volume/dims in wave riding.No matter the stick size what works for me is a flat board,ideally with a deep single concave. Small kite wave riding is all about board speed and having any rocker behind where ur front foot sits doesnt help with that 'right mix' feel

Fin wise - ditch the plastics,they dont track well.

Wind wise - for direct onshore in the surf go up a kite size. Cross on or cross off is king (pends on wave angle)

Straps or strapless - loose'm for the light wind..i dont get why people ride strapped in light winds, caus it just doesnt work well.

Rock on lads

straddiepaul
QLD, 110 posts
17 May 2017 1:20PM
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Select to expand quote
gcdave said..
Heres my 2c

I think there too much focus on the volume/dims in wave riding.No matter the stick size what works for me is a flat board,ideally with a deep single concave. Small kite wave riding is all about board speed and having any rocker behind where ur front foot sits doesnt help with that 'right mix' feel

Fin wise - ditch the plastics,they dont track well.

Wind wise - for direct onshore in the surf go up a kite size. Cross on or cross off is king (pends on wave angle)

Straps or strapless - loose'm for the light wind..i dont get why people ride strapped in light winds, caus it just doesnt work well.

Rock on lads


7m 3boards is all you need

toppleover
QLD, 1208 posts
17 May 2017 5:51PM
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Select to expand quote
pmk said..



gcdave said..
Heres my 2c

I think there too much focus on the volume/dims in wave riding.No matter the stick size what works for me is a flat board,ideally with a deep single concave. Small kite wave riding is all about board speed and having any rocker behind where ur front foot sits doesnt help with that 'right mix' feel

Fin wise - ditch the plastics,they dont track well.

Wind wise - for direct onshore in the surf go up a kite size. Cross on or cross off is king (pends on wave angle)

Straps or strapless - loose'm for the light wind..i dont get why people ride strapped in light winds, caus it just doesnt work well.

Rock on lads





7m 3boards is all you need




You would be watching on the beach lots here on the Sunny Coast with only a 7m.
Unless your 3 boards were:
1 short board
2 SUP
3 foil board
For me, a 10 & 7m + 2 surf boards works from 13-30.
7m is my favourite & I just got a new one, so sorry for the lack of wind Sunny coasters.

dazza5172
SA, 308 posts
17 May 2017 6:14PM
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Select to expand quote
toppleover said..

pmk said..




gcdave said..
Heres my 2c

I think there too much focus on the volume/dims in wave riding.No matter the stick size what works for me is a flat board,ideally with a deep single concave. Small kite wave riding is all about board speed and having any rocker behind where ur front foot sits doesnt help with that 'right mix' feel

Fin wise - ditch the plastics,they dont track well.

Wind wise - for direct onshore in the surf go up a kite size. Cross on or cross off is king (pends on wave angle)

Straps or strapless - loose'm for the light wind..i dont get why people ride strapped in light winds, caus it just doesnt work well.

Rock on lads






7m 3boards is all you need





You would be watching on the beach lots here on the Sunny Coast with only a 7m.
Unless your 3 boards were:
1 short board
2 SUP
3 foil board
For me, a 10 & 7m + 2 surf boards works from 13-30.
7m is my favourite & I just got a new one, so sorry for the lack of wind Sunny coasters.


Yep local wind plays a bit part for sure

Youngbreezy
279 posts
18 May 2017 8:23AM
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For me a board that I'm in that comfort zone with more often is a board with a lot of low end but also alot of bite and edge control, something that allows me to use a smaller kite or get out in lighter winds for the given kite size but will also hold in nicely in those critical moments not feel boaty or out of control when doing turns and be able to edge really hard riding upwind overepowered.

the 5'6 vanguard and my old 5'10 wainman gambler (R.I.P) both really do this nicely, both have pronounced tail channels which I think really help with the amount of bite and both went up wind really well. The airush cypher for me also had this feel

dazza5172
SA, 308 posts
18 May 2017 7:24PM
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It never ceases to amaze me how perfect a kiteboard can feel under kite power and then you turn down the wave face to let the kite drift and suddenly its a tooth pick! then the wind picks up and you are driving a super hard rail to get back up wind and its a boat.

Perhaps pronounced swallow tails - some of the new boards have modest swallows; might give it a gunnier line under kite power and then heeled up railing under full kite power; and then flatter (when the board is more flat and horizontal riding the wave) surfing glide through the drifty wave ridding.

Daz

SaveTheWhales
WA, 1483 posts
19 May 2017 5:06AM
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Select to expand quote
gcdave said..
Heres my 2c

I think there too much focus on the volume/dims in wave riding.No matter the stick size what works for me is a flat board,ideally with a deep single concave. Small kite wave riding is all about board speed and having any rocker behind where ur front foot sits doesnt help with that 'right mix' feel

Fin wise - ditch the plastics,they dont track well.

Wind wise - for direct onshore in the surf go up a kite size. Cross on or cross off is king (pends on wave angle)

Straps or strapless - loose'm for the light wind..i dont get why people ride strapped in light winds, caus it just doesnt work well.

Rock on lads


Yep people get confused about the concave efficiency in the new boards - and bigger guys cant figger out why they can ride on a 25 L Duke but sink on another.. If someone has one, ask them for a ride and see what the new stuff can do.











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"Smaller kites bigger directionals" started by dazza5172