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Y hate on reel leashes when surfers use leashes?

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Created by drewpweiner > 9 months ago, 17 Jan 2017
drewpweiner
WA, 501 posts
17 Jan 2017 9:37PM
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I have been hit in the mouth by my surfboard before and it wasn't fun...

I have read every thread on reel leashes and everyone says they are too dangerous but I can't figure out how to reconcile these opinions with the fact that over twice as many people in the world (surfers) use elastic leashes on a daily basis with waves that spin them around and round, upside down much like a kite crash would.

Wouldn't that make the chance of contact with the board the same as kitesurfing crashes? So why what makes kitesurfing leashes that much more dangerous?

FoS
TAS, 1664 posts
18 Jan 2017 6:13AM
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The surfers dont get plucked out of the water and into the sky, only to have a board shoot out next.
Or dragged downwind with the board releasing and chasing them.
The board tend to be in, or under, the water.

Dont get me wrong i use a leash on my surf and sup boards, but not when kiting.
As a mitigation there is not any swimmers/surfers out then i go kiteboarding,
so hitting someone else with a runaway board is unlikely.

Thats my excuse

billob
QLD, 92 posts
18 Jan 2017 8:53AM
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Unless your'e in piranha infested waters or surfing near a dry coral reef you dont need one. It's not that people hate on reel leashes they are just concerned for novice teabaggers with enough to worry about

Gorgo
VIC, 4911 posts
18 Jan 2017 11:51AM
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It's called "tombstoning". You come off your board and the kite drags you along. The board stops and digs into the water and stands up on its tail (and looks like a tombstone). The leash stretches and stretches until the board comes out of the water and the leash recoils. The board comes flying through the air and hits you, hard.

You can minimise the effect by having the leash connection point on the rail of the board so there's no surface to dig into the water.

Reel leashes try to minimise the recoil effect by having a section of the leash as non stretch and using the reel to take up the slack. The problem is the mechanism gets gunked up with sand and salt. You also have a big reel attached to your harness and look like a kook.

When you consider that the vast majority of kiters don't use leashes, and virtually no experienced kiter uses a leash then there might be a good reason for that. The only kiters who need a leash are those who ride in the surf, possibly strapless, and where there is no beach so they can't easily retrieve their board if they get separated.

BTW You need to read the threads on these topics a bit more thoroughly. All this has been covered to death decades ago.

drewpweiner
WA, 501 posts
18 Jan 2017 10:39AM
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Gorgo said..
BTW You need to read the threads on these topics a bit more thoroughly. All this has been covered to death decades ago.


I did, I read every one and they were all full of people posting gorey pictures and labelling people as kooks. Virtually no one went into detail, too busy putting other people down first i suppose.

When I have crashed the board always stays on the water about 6 feet away from me. Even when it tombstones like under a foot it never flings back out because the rope isn't stretchy. I wonder if people who don't use leashes just start a chinese whispers game of "oh no that's dangerous" without ever testing it out and then a few unlucky people have come on here to confirm those whispers. I mean people buy these leashes all the time and only a few ever get hurt so... there must be some "excessive" hate on these things as seeing them more harmful than they are worth.

Swavek
WA, 393 posts
18 Jan 2017 11:52AM
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I read a lot and decided to buy the non-elastic gentle spring loaded leash. I have another 1.2m non elastic leash attached to the spring loaded leash (otherwise the spring mechanism makes it more difficult to position the board for water start).

I use the reel non-elastic leash when I am learning to gybe on the strapless surf board. There is no waves - just chop, I would like to learn gybing before I try the real waves. I neglected my surfboard skills as I was fed up with the amount of time wasted body dragging to my surf board. My success ratio for gybes is very low , 1 out of 10 if I am lucky.

Only once I got the reel leash I have the patience to practice gybes. I think the reel leash has its place when used by competent kiters in the right conditions. I would not use the leash on the bigger waves.

Rails
QLD, 1370 posts
18 Jan 2017 5:58PM
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No one is hating on anything mate, it's just advice
if you don't want to learn from the experience of others you will need to learn for yourself
the day you get smashed by the lip and held under with your kite leash attached to the back of your harness so you can't punch out and the board leash get tangled in your lines...
let's just say that situation could've been avoided

drewpweiner
WA, 501 posts
18 Jan 2017 8:47PM
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Just took out the reel leash for the second session and almost got smashed in the face! not by another bloke for wearing a leash but by my board!I was deliberately sending the kite, getting air and leaving my board in the water next to me as I got flung out of the water and watching it to see if it shot back up at me. It didn't, I watched it a fair few times and it would never shoot back at me.

Then I was riding along and hit a chop incorrectly and lost balance, threw my feet out of the straps and got supermaned forwards (not upwards). In mid-air I decided to see what my board was doing and looked back and it was mid-air with me coming straight at me FAST. Luckily its trajectory was about 2 foot to the right of me. If I had been on it's path I could have easily suffered facial injuries.

Still, people tend to over dramatize so much **** these days and I wanted to see if the same thing was going on with these reel leashes (I would make a good scientist tbh, challenge accepted views).

I don't think I will be using it ever again, Still it did work really well when I messed up, my board was always there. Maybe they should make a 20m reel leash lol.

drewpweiner
WA, 501 posts
18 Jan 2017 8:59PM
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Swavek said..
I read a lot and decided to buy the non-elastic gentle spring loaded leash. I have another 1.2m non elastic leash attached to the spring loaded leash (otherwise the spring mechanism makes it more difficult to position the board for water start).

I use the reel non-elastic leash when I am learning to gybe on the strapless surf board. There is no waves - just chop, I would like to learn gybing before I try the real waves. I neglected my surfboard skills as I was fed up with the amount of time wasted body dragging to my surf board. My success ratio for gybes is very low , 1 out of 10 if I am lucky.

Only once I got the reel leash I have the patience to practice gybes. I think the reel leash has its place when used by competent kiters in the right conditions. I would not use the leash on the bigger waves.


I am with you on that one, I was trying to 180 to gybe the other day on my first session in the ocean. It was really scarey being so far out without a leash doing these kooky gybes.

So you have 2 leashes attached to one another? That must mean that only one leash retracts while the other one stays in the water flapping about. This is actually not a bad idea and could potentially minimized the dangers of board whiplash as I mentioned above.

I think what would be a safe bet is to double the length of the reel leash, then only connect it only when doing mellow stuff like gybes and not hitting chops getting air. Still, if you accidentally came off at full speed there is still a chance you will get thrown forward and the board comes at to you like it did to me, although having two leashes tied together will negate MOST of that whiplash as when you come off your board it only takes about 5 metres for you to come to a complete stop usually and that is about half of how long the dual leash would be.

weebitbreezy
617 posts
18 Jan 2017 10:06PM
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I had a fun experience returning a board where the reel leash owner had forgotten to attach his leash to his harness. Picked up board, carried over my arms and kited back to floundering idiot. Didn't notice the reel leash attached and trailing behind me. Went to throw it back to him and as I did so, the leash snagged in my steering line.

Cue unexpected kiteloop.

The next person who picked his board up just dropped it back at the beach and made him body drag back in for the practice.

harlie
QLD, 188 posts
19 Jan 2017 8:52AM
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I don't get the problem with bodydragging to a surfboard. I hate bodydragging possibly more than anyone, but the surfboard drifts downwind so fast I find with two short tacks in the water I am significantly upwind of it. Much easier than TT

AGoodVintage
14 posts
19 Jan 2017 7:00AM
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Are the standard old surfing leg ropes any safer with a TT than the reel type?
Obviously, they are quite short but have very little stretch.

rsands
NSW, 18 posts
19 Jan 2017 10:03AM
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For my stage of learning I think a leash would be beneficial. I can body drag fine, I make a point of practicing body drags before I go out each time, but I nearly lost my new board on its first outing as the kite hit the water and the wind had died down. By the time I got the kite back in the air (probably due to my lack of skill at this stage) I was a good 100m away from the board. A guy came out to me and I asked him could he grab my board for me. I knew roughly where it was as I was checking on it every so often but really without that guy I would have been screwed.

A lease would have let me concentrate fully on the kite and not worry about loosing a brand new board. What I was taught in the lessons kicked in and as I was told the main focus is your safety and kite, I decided to forget about the board until I got the kite up. But it is annoying and distracting in the moment as you see dollars floating away.

Had I used a leash the board would have been much closer, I am not at the stage of doing jumps, twists, etc and I think I wouldn't want a leash by then but for my stage of learning upwind it could save a load of energy having the board close by after a small fall. It has only got away from me once in the times I have fell as it usually stays on my feet, probably because when I go to fall I lift my feet and board from water to help it stay with me.

drewpweiner
WA, 501 posts
19 Jan 2017 10:55AM
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weebitbreezy said..
The next person who picked his board up just dropped it back at the beach and made him body drag back in for the practice.


Mate... What about the SHARKS!?!?!

drewpweiner
WA, 501 posts
19 Jan 2017 10:58AM
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harlie said..
I don't get the problem with bodydragging to a surfboard. I hate bodydragging possibly more than anyone, but the surfboard drifts downwind so fast I find with two short tacks in the water I am significantly upwind of it. Much easier than TT


The problem is

A) It goes upwind (sometimes by quite a large amount 25 metres or so) in which case I have had to body drag all the way to shore, wait for the board to drift and walk up the beach a bit and by that time I have lost where the board is.

B) Can't visually find the board anywhere, even worse on a TT

C) Potential danger of floating in deep water for an extended amount of time... SHARKS!

drewpweiner
WA, 501 posts
19 Jan 2017 11:02AM
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rsands said..
Had I used a leash the board would have been much closer, I am not at the stage of doing jumps, twists, etc and I think I wouldn't want a leash by then but for my stage of learning upwind it could save a load of energy having the board close by after a small fall. It has only got away from me once in the times I have fell as it usually stays on my feet, probably because when I go to fall I lift my feet and board from water to help it stay with me.



The problem when I tested it though mate (as i posted above) was that the most dangerous scenario I encountered wasn't in big launches but in plain crashes when in full speed. That is when the board is most likely to shoot out as other members were saying. I recommend doubling your leash length which is what I plan to do.

harlie
QLD, 188 posts
19 Jan 2017 1:29PM
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drewpweiner said..

harlie said..
I don't get the problem with bodydragging to a surfboard. I hate bodydragging possibly more than anyone, but the surfboard drifts downwind so fast I find with two short tacks in the water I am significantly upwind of it. Much easier than TT



The problem is

A) It goes upwind (sometimes by quite a large amount 25 metres or so) in which case I have had to body drag all the way to shore, wait for the board to drift and walk up the beach a bit and by that time I have lost where the board is.

B) Can't visually find the board anywhere, even worse on a TT

C) Potential danger of floating in deep water for an extended amount of time... SHARKS!


never seen a surfboard "go upwind". Even if you endup 25m downwind of it the surfboards are pushed by the wind so fast.

Everyone goes through a period of loosing their board, either suck it up and improve or use a leach and run the risk

toppleover
QLD, 2033 posts
19 Jan 2017 4:37PM
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Once your board has gone through your lines with leash attached, you will suddenly realise why most don't use a leash.
Goodluck with that.

harry potter
VIC, 2777 posts
19 Jan 2017 8:33PM
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I can't believe in 2017 we are still having this discussion

2stubborn2quit
WA, 169 posts
19 Jan 2017 8:40PM
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^^^^^+1. It has been covered to death. 95% of experienced kiters say to all the learners out there. FFS don't use a leash. Still I see the kooks in an estuary and small beach surf still using leashes.

weebitbreezy
617 posts
19 Jan 2017 9:23PM
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AGoodVintage said..
Are the standard old surfing leg ropes any safer with a TT than the reel type?
Obviously, they are quite short but have very little stretch.



I don't think its the stretch that's the problem, its the difference between how fast you slow down compared to the board behind you. Same reason that tow ropes have gone out of fashion in place of tow poles. If the person in the car in front slows down and the person behind isn't on the brakes quickly enough you get to add to your repair problems

rsands
NSW, 18 posts
20 Jan 2017 12:32AM
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Maybe time to use boots? Board stay with you for sure then

Gateman
QLD, 409 posts
20 Jan 2017 11:15PM
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Even on a non stretchable tow line (as in kite, ski rope behind boat or cable park) it it possible to apply enough pressure to load up your board and boost huge! Doesn't it therefore stand to reason that some freak set of circumstances (like catching an edge or the nose of your board) can load up your board and boost it in the same direction as its' own tow line (which happens to be the leash and is attached to you) after you've fallen off and been dragged off by your kite? Slow recoil leash or not, when that leash reaches the extremity of its length and your board has "dug in" and you're still moving (just like the boat or cable) then your board is going to eventually "let go" and follow you. How fast it follows depends on how much force was on it when it eventually "let go" of the water.

Fly on da wall
SA, 725 posts
21 Jan 2017 6:09AM
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rsands said..
For my stage of learning I think a leash would be beneficial. I can body drag fine, I make a point of practicing body drags before I go out each time, but I nearly lost my new board on its first outing as the kite hit the water and the wind had died down. By the time I got the kite back in the air (probably due to my lack of skill at this stage) I was a good 100m away from the board. A guy came out to me and I asked him could he grab my board for me. I knew roughly where it was as I was checking on it every so often but really without that guy I would have been screwed.

A lease would have let me concentrate fully on the kite and not worry about loosing a brand new board. What I was taught in the lessons kicked in and as I was told the main focus is your safety and kite, I decided to forget about the board until I got the kite up. But it is annoying and distracting in the moment as you see dollars floating away.

Had I used a leash the board would have been much closer, I am not at the stage of doing jumps, twists, etc and I think I wouldn't want a leash by then but for my stage of learning upwind it could save a load of energy having the board close by after a small fall. It has only got away from me once in the times I have fell as it usually stays on my feet, probably because when I go to fall I lift my feet and board from water to help it stay with me.


Unfortunately some newbies are stubborn and don't take onboard good advice from experienced people. If you would prefer to be able to keep seeing your BOARD... ditch the legrope before you have a serious accident with the board and are unable to ever see it again. It'll be easier to find your BOARD if you can still see it, before it takes out an eye...or both! If losing a board is more important to you than your safety, you have the wrong mindset.
Learn to body drag properly is no1 before riding a board, unless you have a boat crew and retrieval team there for you. Good luck

drewpweiner
WA, 501 posts
22 Jan 2017 11:50AM
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harlie said..

drewpweiner said..


harlie said..
I don't get the problem with bodydragging to a surfboard. I hate bodydragging possibly more than anyone, but the surfboard drifts downwind so fast I find with two short tacks in the water I am significantly upwind of it. Much easier than TT




The problem is

A) It goes upwind (sometimes by quite a large amount 25 metres or so) in which case I have had to body drag all the way to shore, wait for the board to drift and walk up the beach a bit and by that time I have lost where the board is.

B) Can't visually find the board anywhere, even worse on a TT

C) Potential danger of floating in deep water for an extended amount of time... SHARKS!



never seen a surfboard "go upwind". Even if you endup 25m downwind of it the surfboards are pushed by the wind so fast.

Everyone goes through a period of loosing their board, either suck it up and improve or use a leach and run the risk


It's not the boards go upwind, it's that when you come off you get dragged downwind leaving your board upwind. And twin tips move about 1/3rd of the speed of surfboards.

drewpweiner
WA, 501 posts
22 Jan 2017 11:52AM
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rsands said..
Maybe time to use boots? Board stay with you for sure then


Maybe, I think they look a bit excessive and dorky though... like snowboarding on water.

Plus, it's so nice to just slip your feet out in an instant. Maybe if I ever started doing multiple 360 unhooked backrolls then yeah it would be a good idea.

drewpweiner
WA, 501 posts
22 Jan 2017 11:55AM
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Unfortunately some newbies are stubborn and don't take onboard good advice from experienced people. If you would prefer to be able to keep seeing your BOARD... ditch the legrope before you have a serious accident with the board and are unable to ever see it again. It'll be easier to find your BOARD if you can still see it, before it takes out an eye...or both! If losing a board is more important to you than your safety, you have the wrong mindset.
Learn to body drag properly is no1 before riding a board, unless you have a boat crew and retrieval team there for you. Good luck


Good advice. I had a leash on yesterday and found it so hard to pull the board back to me and keep the kite at 12. So you end up like a sitting duck as opposed to keeping the kite in the air in case you feel a chomp in which case you can send the kite from 3 to 9 oclock and get blasted out of the water away from the shark.

Also, if you are kiting with people then sometimes someone will bring your board back to you. It is just such a huge worry when you are waaaaay out the back in the deep ocean and you can't see your board anywhere.

Nathe
WA, 433 posts
22 Jan 2017 12:34PM
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drewpweiner said..



Unfortunately some newbies are stubborn and don't take onboard good advice from experienced people. If you would prefer to be able to keep seeing your BOARD... ditch the legrope before you have a serious accident with the board and are unable to ever see it again. It'll be easier to find your BOARD if you can still see it, before it takes out an eye...or both! If losing a board is more important to you than your safety, you have the wrong mindset.
Learn to body drag properly is no1 before riding a board, unless you have a boat crew and retrieval team there for you. Good luck



Good advice. I had a leash on yesterday and found it so hard to pull the board back to me and keep the kite at 12. So you end up like a sitting duck as opposed to keeping the kite in the air in case you feel a chomp in which case you can send the kite from 3 to 9 oclock and get blasted out of the water away from the shark.

Also, if you are kiting with people then sometimes someone will bring your board back to you. It is just such a huge worry when you are waaaaay out the back in the deep ocean and you can't see your board anywhere.


Way out the back? But you don't go out more than 100 m according to your other post

gdmclean
WA, 30 posts
22 Jan 2017 7:56PM
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so the lesson is buy a 2nd hand board and if it floats away its not as expensive :)

Can you still get these things?
www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Kitesurfing/Review/GoJoe-truly-safe-board-recovery/

On a side note, it wont be long before someone invents a tracking device. Wear something on your wrist like a fitbit watch or similar that shows direction and distance, with the tracker being embedded in the board. Id buy one if it were made.

FlyByKite
WA, 103 posts
23 Jan 2017 12:52PM
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Select to expand quote
drewpweiner said..



Unfortunately some newbies are stubborn and don't take onboard good advice from experienced people. If you would prefer to be able to keep seeing your BOARD... ditch the legrope before you have a serious accident with the board and are unable to ever see it again. It'll be easier to find your BOARD if you can still see it, before it takes out an eye...or both! If losing a board is more important to you than your safety, you have the wrong mindset.
Learn to body drag properly is no1 before riding a board, unless you have a boat crew and retrieval team there for you. Good luck



Good advice. I had a leash on yesterday and found it so hard to pull the board back to me and keep the kite at 12. So you end up like a sitting duck as opposed to keeping the kite in the air in case you feel a chomp in which case you can send the kite from 3 to 9 oclock and get blasted out of the water away from the shark.

Also, if you are kiting with people then sometimes someone will bring your board back to you. It is just such a huge worry when you are waaaaay out the back in the deep ocean and you can't see your board anywhere.


If I was that worried about sharks I'd give up entering the ocean.
You know fear attracts sharks, most people who are attacked by dogs are the scared ones.
I don't think I would be sending my kite from "3 to 9 o'clock and blasting out of the water away from the shark."
(Unless I can see the shark has let go and away from me)
That might just rip what ever the shark has in it's mouth away from the rest of you.
Better off punching it in the nose or poking at it's eyes.
If you can't keep the kite at 12 while pulling your board in, what chance will you have in controlling the kite
if a shark is attacking you?
"Waaaaaaay out the back" - Most shark attacks are in shallow water.
Have fun

ajs18s
QLD, 60 posts
23 Jan 2017 6:17PM
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gdmclean said..

On a side note, it wont be long before someone invents a tracking device. Wear something on your wrist like a fitbit watch or similar that shows direction and distance, with the tracker being embedded in the board. Id buy one if it were made.


They do, but it is not wireless yet....



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"Y hate on reel leashes when surfers use leashes?" started by drewpweiner