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2012 North Trust Bar - Worn Safety & Depower Lines

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Created by bigmtnskierx > 9 months ago, 19 Dec 2012
bigmtnskierx
VIC, 29 posts
20 Dec 2012 12:12AM
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Hi All,

Just wondering how many used the the 2012 5th Element Trust Bar, and are now using the 2013 model? The reason I ask, is that I now know of 3 cases where the safety (and in one case both safety and depower line at the same time) have snapped due to wear on the lines from rubbing on the bar. I know the 2013 bar has improved on this wear by 20%, but has anyone had any issues with wear on the 2013 bar yet?

Two of the times when the lines snapped the kites fell straight to the water leading edge first and recovery was easy, however one was in a slightly offshore wind and I was lucky to get my kite back with only minimal damage about 2km along the coast at a rocky point before it went completely offshore.

Kind of sick of having to replace expensive north lines often when I have only had the gear 6mths (similar for the other two people I know), but want to make sure it is worth going to the 2013 bar and if they have fixed the issue with the lower friction material through the bar.

Thoughts?

Troyrotor
QLD, 318 posts
20 Dec 2012 8:09AM
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My 2013 bar isn't looking the best at the moment, it's nothing bad yet but is fraying next to the chicken loop. I'm guessing either from lightwind riding or unhooking.
The 2013 has a plastic cord run through the center of the line to prevent total breakage, but the 5th doesn't.

But yer I'll be needing a replacement line soon

elkatman
NSW, 8 posts
28 Dec 2012 3:11PM
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I've got the 2012 bar for my rebel. The double mainlines through the bar and the safety line are fairly worn from about 20 good sessions. The wear isn't as bad as what I get on the two similar bars, the Best 2010 redline bars I use with my Kahoonas. The flying lines seem to last forever and I just replace the mainlines when I can tell they are starting to fray too much. As you know, you get to be able to tell after the mainlines snap the first couple of times. As for the safety line, I've done a few ****ty repairs on it and don't use it..much. It doesn't seem to wear compared to the mainlines if you don't use it, especially for landing.

elkatman
NSW, 8 posts
28 Dec 2012 3:13PM
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If you're unhooking get a few spare safety lines, it's the only option I think.

smook
VIC, 196 posts
28 Dec 2012 9:20PM
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2012 BARS WERE SH.. So far i am happy with 2013 bar still in good order, Note i kite a lot

tommyj
WA, 11 posts
28 Dec 2012 7:46PM
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Wax up the lines with candel wax.

I have had north bars for years and always wax them up and have never had any of the lines break. A softer wax works good rub it in when brand new and every now and then when it looks dry. A coat of wax keeps it from wearing down the rope. I have old bars that look in better condition then guys bars which have only had a few hours use.

Addikt
WA, 551 posts
28 Dec 2012 9:12PM
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There must be a sailing lub you can get that will do the same as candle wax but with less of the problem with sand getting stuck to it...?

tommyj
WA, 11 posts
28 Dec 2012 9:47PM
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Never really had sand get stuck in the wax expect for one time with a particular candel that I didnt use again.
I rub the ropes through the candel then rub up and down the rope with your fingers so the wax kinda warms up and sinks into the rope.

eppo
WA, 9372 posts
28 Dec 2012 10:24PM
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I seem to remember a very similar post with a very similar solution offered. Was it on kiteforum, actually I think it was.

So I suppose I will say what I said then. A really great solution to a problem that should not, I will say it again SHOULD NOT have to be found nor implemented on a bar that costs so much. I'm sorry but this is how I see it. As a past suffer of changing depower lines and nearly losing my mind in the process I just gives me the absolute sh1ts that such a high quality product in every other sense is spoilt by this stupid piece of crappy engineering.

Will say again what I said, plastic sleeving,

I was then given a whole bunch of different reasons why it is not, etcetera. For instance Should change your depower every season anyhow, all the bullSh1T reasons under the sun why this is the status quo with north bar and lines, crapola this went on for three pages of drivel people justifying this state of affairs, infact some of the waxing solutions become quite elaborate and bordered on hilariously insane...north for the price you charge for what is a bloody good product other than this.

tommyj
WA, 11 posts
29 Dec 2012 9:53AM
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I can see where you are coming from eppo, but plastic sleves on the north bar would hinder the easy adjustment features of the north bars.
I cant see why people dont rub wax on the ropes it takes a couple of minutes and stops the wearing. Maybe shops are not telling/showing customers so they can sell them replacement ropes

herbyburger
WA, 300 posts
29 Dec 2012 10:22AM
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Wax up your ropes? WTF, I had a go on a mates I think it
was 10mt 2013 evo, really nice kite, but yea, the first thing I said to
him was to keep an eye out on the lines going through the bar.
They do look like they are quite small diameter rope, like eppo says why
doesnt the manufacturer
have them coated in plastic so you dont have to wax them up. I had a slingshot bar with the same dramas i had too keep on replacing them. Then switched over to a bar with a plastic coated line going through the bar, problem solved never have to worry about it ever again.
He did say the insert that the ropes go through has some anti chaffing tech.
Not sure how much Trust I would give it after a season or two.
2014 maybe?

tommyj
WA, 11 posts
29 Dec 2012 10:50AM
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Yeh wax the rope. Had north bars for years and never had them snap or look worn out. The north bars wouldnt work with a plastic coating.
The 2013 north bars have a different centre hole which is now plastic and ment to reduce wear.

eppo
WA, 9372 posts
29 Dec 2012 1:02PM
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Yes the depower length adjustment wouldn't be an option, the iron heart would not be an option and most stopper mechanisms on plastic sleeving don't work that well.

But...

I'd rather just a simple plastic sleeving that didn't wear than all those other features which are nice but to me not that necessary. Over engineering as usual.

Chris6791
WA, 3271 posts
29 Dec 2012 1:57PM
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How would something like silicone spray go on the lines? I've got the new Core Sensor bar, it's a great improvement over the ESP but I'm not happy with the signs of wear on the lines running up through the bar.

eppo
WA, 9372 posts
29 Dec 2012 5:58PM
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Pretty sure from the 6 page post on kiteforum with all the voodoo waxing and sacrificial doll solutions, silica gets sand sticking to it eventually. One guy carefully explained how he waxed his lines by dripping a certain type of wax onto his lines at a certain temperature in a certain manner. Was a good 5 paragraphs. Wtf! Nothing you guys can say that can beat what rubbish I read on that post. But alas they rope depowers will wear some more than others so I suppose waxing is a viable option. I still need to make a strong point. Here it goes...

Why? Why does the problem exist in the first place. Answer that question to yourself and you will get close to some clarification.

I know I did after teaching my children every four letter one known to mankind on my third change. Not proud of that one!

Lambie
QLD, 738 posts
29 Dec 2012 10:09PM
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Hey Eppo - thats kind of funny - if it wasnt so serious!!
I've had a play with a few different brands but not the norths - but a mate has a few. I'm still flying the Fone B3's and its got the plastic sleeved depower rope and its just so nice to use - and hastle free! Why are the likes of North still mucking around with the crap Bigmtn... is frustrated with ??
A 20% improvement in wear on the new 13 North bar means you will get ??? 5 extra sessions ?? sad really ...... hang you head in shame North!!

eppo
WA, 9372 posts
29 Dec 2012 8:33PM
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All true my friend. But watch and wait for all the justifications coming in. Won't take long...

DutchRooster
NSW, 325 posts
1 Jan 2013 8:28PM
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Got the same problem with my 2012 North bar. Now only use it as a spare, as I've got the 2013. Wear seems slightly less, but still... At least it's easier to replace.

My 2010 North bar wears quickly too, but at least its dead easy to replace.

I hear the same complaint from everyone.

Time to sort it out, North!

DaylightDebt
WA, 296 posts
3 Jan 2013 11:53AM
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My 2013, is showing signs of increased wear compared to my 2011, il post a pic when I can.

The double sided Velcro on the plastic bar stop is the culprit,
I'm going to cut some smooth material or remove the Velcro.

eppo
WA, 9372 posts
3 Jan 2013 5:56PM
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Wow and still they insist on this approach. How much does the new bar cost again? I have seen the bar, it is a very very nice piece of engineering, but you shouldn't have to remove or change a damn thing for that kind of cash.

DaylightDebt
WA, 296 posts
3 Jan 2013 7:24PM
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The velcro just captures the fibers of the 5th line, it does not matter where it is positioned.

This seams like a pointless design feature, maybe inbuilt redundancy?

bigmtnskierx
VIC, 29 posts
7 Jan 2013 12:36AM
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Thanks guys, I think I might get a new depower line and wax it before thinking about buying the 2013 bar then. Hopefully north addresses these apparent ongoing issues next year!

INTHELOOP
QLD, 1855 posts
7 Jan 2013 8:19AM
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there are advantages and disadvantages with using the tubing around depower ropes or not.

In colder regions the tubing can break and the bar can get stuck on that point which could it impossible to depower. It happened to me before.
Generally you dont have to replace the depower rope as much as there is less friction and wear on the tubing.

We have had some feedback from people saying that they prefer the feel of the non-tube trimlines as you have more feel, feedback and manoeuvrability on the bar others prefer the stiffness of the tubes.

If you unhook or are you are a heavy user on the North Bars then i suggest to put some bow wax on your trim-lines. This will increase the life of your line heaps.

The wear on the new 2013 North bars is way less than previous years due to a new centrepiece through the bar.

eppo
WA, 9372 posts
7 Jan 2013 7:56PM
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Cool marvin I didn't know that about colder climates. Yeh I heard the it gives more feel thing on non plastic sleeving, although thatwas from a north guy who sent me a three page expose on why they have stuck with the depower rope.

Haven't found that myself and I've used both. Feel comes from the kites specific pull me thinks.

jack5566
131 posts
2 Mar 2013 9:35AM
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Not wanting to go over old ground but now the 2013 bars have had a summer of use how did they stack up as I am about to rebuild my 2012 system or do I just dump it a buy the 2013

I am also interested in how the new line went if anyone has feed back as I beleive they changes them in 2013 also

Beanz
WA, 75 posts
2 Mar 2013 11:58AM
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Blah blah blah - got both 2012 and 2013 north 5 line bars. 2013 is an improvement but both bars are a piece of ****. Reason is not just the wear of the lines as discussed but also the rubber on the bar peeling away, the metal pulley which smashes into your face if you fall over the front of your bar, how the rubber over the rear lines adjoining the bars all crunches up (not so on 2013), that stupid little tool you need to change the safety line, etc, etc, etc...

doonut
WA, 251 posts
4 Mar 2013 10:42AM
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I still got 2010 bar n kite and still ok, use it all the time never had prob same with my 2012 bar seems ok to me ?

pattiecannon
QLD, 593 posts
15 Mar 2013 3:57AM
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Hey tommyj,
what brand of "candel" wax did you use mate? Will surfwax do?

and Intheloop, what is "bow wax". and where can you get this stuff?
Cheers

coastflyer
SA, 572 posts
15 Mar 2013 11:48AM
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pattiecannon said...
Hey tommyj,
what brand of "candel" wax did you use mate? Will surfwax do?

and Intheloop, what is "bow wax". and where can you get this stuff?
Cheers


I have a 2012 North bar that is showing fairly severe signs of wear of the depower ropes, and I will need to replace it soon. Bow wax is pure bees wax mixed with vaseline and can be bought from any archery store.
http://www.redbackarcherysupplies.com.au/product.php?id_product=12

tommyj
WA, 11 posts
21 Mar 2013 9:43AM
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Hey pattiecannon no particular brand have been using random candle wax. Softer wax tends to work better. I wouldn't use surf wax too sticky and collects sand.

wave6ft
QLD, 142 posts
24 Mar 2013 2:23AM
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I have the 2013 bar and was checking.it yesterday and.noticed the.depower line has the red centre.wire coming.out same.as.picture above kite has not.been.used that much



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"2012 North Trust Bar - Worn Safety & Depower Lines" started by bigmtnskierx