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2015 North Dyno 18m - trouble going upwind on twintip

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Created by JohnSum > 9 months ago, 29 Mar 2017
JohnSum
4 posts
29 Mar 2017 2:48AM
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I have recently sold a 3 year old Dyno 17m and "upgraded" to the newest 18m model. I was happy with the 17, but it was getting old and sometimes it seemed that just a little more power would be useful (I live in Dubai, where the wind is generally very low).

The new kite does seem more powerful and lighter, but to my surprise, I have trouble going upwind! On the 17 I was able to edge upwind and travel significant distances upwind on my light wind twintip (Spike), but on the 18 I go fast, but for some reason can't get the kite to fly forward in the window enough to travel upwind! That is to say, I don't actually float downwind either. I just stay on the same "latitude" no matter how hard I try to go upwind. I can edge the board, I can even jump, but there just doesn't seem to be any will in the kite to fly forward to let me point the board more upwind. Has anyone experienced something like this?

J

BrisKites
QLD, 1240 posts
29 Mar 2017 10:56AM
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I find this a very common thing on kites over 15m. Especially in the high aspect kites, once up to speed you need to de-power or sheet out. The kite will push further to the edge of the window bit still produce drive.

Puetz
NT, 2120 posts
29 Mar 2017 3:25PM
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... the 18m can be a beast for power but not if you choke it or ride it slowly, it needs apparent wind to really get the most out of it. I owned the older 17m and then 18m and the 18 was definitely a better kite but only after I adjust my standard bar to suit it. For me, both kites went upwind fantastic and the faster you ride, or as the wind picked up, the lighter the bar felt.

I did a few modifications which made it harder to choke or stall as follows:

- I made the back lines one knot longer via the little knots under the bar ends.
- added a knot in the adaptive steering so you can make the kite have harder bar pressure ie hard plus setting
- moved the bar width adjustments to make the bar narrower.
- adjusted the bar throw a little longer than I normally would, so when you do get big power, you can release it by letting the bar out.
- make sure you have a 27m lines

At the end of the day, I basically made the kite less prone to stalling or rather me over sheeting during the slower riding by giving it more bar feed back. The kite turns just the same as before but it takes more effort on your part to make it quick. I would sine the kite a few times to build up board speed and apparent wind then pull the bar in as needed for lots of power and of course race upwind.

Hope this helps.

Robbie :)

JBFletch
QLD, 1285 posts
30 Mar 2017 7:23AM
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Briskites is right.

The last DYNO had some interesting bridle points, from inside the canopy and not on the leading edge.
The means that the kite generates low power, but will sit back in the window alot if you over sheet.

Best advice is get the thing going, sheet out and ride upwind with it.

Fly on da wall
VIC, 686 posts
30 Mar 2017 10:41AM
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If you're riding a light wind kite you also need to match it with a light wind board or something with very little rocker and plenty of width...
Or you'll just struggle and get pulled downwind unless you're overpowered.

JohnSum
4 posts
31 Mar 2017 3:15AM
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Thanks for the awesome replies!

The thought that I'm oversheeting did occur to me. And I did try to sheet out, but then the kite does not have enough power to keep pulling me. I'm 100+kg, so I think that a twin-tip that isn't yet a door might be the cause of my trouble. I had a sector a while ago for light wind going, but sold it after getting an 3rd grade angle sprain from the too loose foot straps (feet too deep in).

As for the kite:
1. I do have the kite on the hard setting. Didn't think to make one more knot though.
2. Excellent comment about the bridle. It might make the kite more sensitive to oversheet. I'll be careful.
3. I have 24m lines and 32m. I haven't tried the 32 recently, because they're a bit of a bi..h in case I get into trouble. Maybe I should get something in between.. Or bite it and stick with the 32s.
4. Perhaps I should take a look at another proper light wind board... would it be a good time to try foiling?

Equipment gymnastics aside looks like I might need to do some of the old fashioned gymnastics and lose 10kg or so. :)

J

Fly on da wall
VIC, 686 posts
31 Mar 2017 5:32AM
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You need 27m line's for a kite such as yours and a 23inch bar.24's will not help it's light wind ability! Try 3m extensions and if you still had the sector, you'd be happy in 10knots!

Puetz
NT, 2120 posts
31 Mar 2017 9:46AM
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Select to expand quote
JohnSum said..
Thanks for the awesome replies!

The thought that I'm oversheeting did occur to me. And I did try to sheet out, but then the kite does not have enough power to keep pulling me. I'm 100+kg, so I think that a twin-tip that isn't yet a door might be the cause of my trouble. I had a sector a while ago for light wind going, but sold it after getting an 3rd grade angle sprain from the too loose foot straps (feet too deep in).

As for the kite:
1. I do have the kite on the hard setting. Didn't think to make one more knot though.
2. Excellent comment about the bridle. It might make the kite more sensitive to oversheet. I'll be careful.
3. I have 24m lines and 32m. I haven't tried the 32 recently, because they're a bit of a bi..h in case I get into trouble. Maybe I should get something in between.. Or bite it and stick with the 32s.
4. Perhaps I should take a look at another proper light wind board... would it be a good time to try foiling?

Equipment gymnastics aside looks like I might need to do some of the old fashioned gymnastics and lose 10kg or so. :)

J


... whoa there JohnSum, don't be doing drastic things like loosing 10kg, there's no fun in that (joking by the way). I'm super heavy weight at 120 to 125 kg and found the 18m a perfect kite for power, speed with agility. I reckon I have about 170 hours on the 2015 dyno so pretty much got used to the thing. The kite is definitely a good upwind kite, better than my current kite, a 19m Edge. It's more technical to get it's absolute best but when its on, its on point!!!

I found 27m lines were best compromise between handling, bar feedback and power delivery. The 24m lines didn't allow enough time in the wind window to get up to speed on a TT to achieve its power. On 24m lines, the kite shot to the edge of the window just a bit too quick. Using 32m lines definitely increase wind window time but the delay made the handling a tad too slow for riding a nugget in small waves so I went back to 27m. If I was only riding a race board or sector then 32m is fine.

Add a knot the same distance along the adaptive steering as the distance between hard and soft setting so you make a 'hard plus' setting. Make sure you compensate for this knot by trimming the rear lines length,,,, one knot will compensate but in the end I found 2 knots under the bar ends was perfect.

I put the bar width in to narrow and that made a difference too, helped heaps in increasing the bar feed back so let me instantly know if I was over sheeting kite. If you find it makes it too hard then easy peasy, just flip them back.

When doing slow board speeds, i.e. after a transition for example, you can tend to sine kite and pull the bar in for power too early because the kite feels powerful and has loads of it but in fact is pulling you on a more downwind direction rather than racing upwind. Board speed is the secret. By not over sheeting you can let the kite shoot forward at better angles gaining this speed. And of course, the more speed the higher upwind angles you will achieve.

This will have many roll their eyes but the 18m Dyno was actually a good light wind wave kite but you had to know how to fly it and in a way, stall it just the right amount,,,at the right time,,,, to in fact help you. With the 'voodoo' bridle, you can in fact stall the kite or let it fly forward at will and yes, true story, ride ok in waves but looping is your friend because the moment you don't have wind over the canopy, the damn thing will fall.

See if my mods work for you, if not, no loss, try something else.

cheers,

Robbie



jms
NSW, 121 posts
31 Mar 2017 10:29AM
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In super light wind I often pull a good amount of depower to make sure I can't choke the kite.

Adoy
NSW, 230 posts
31 Mar 2017 10:54AM
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I have the Ozone Zephyr 17m and it goes upwind very well, I found you can get a bit more angle upwind if you fly the kite higher up in the window.
You go a bit slower though.

jamee
NT, 32 posts
31 Mar 2017 12:37PM
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27m lines, don't choke it, little bit of practice, it is a great kite. It's the same with jumping, it needs a special technique but when you get it right you will be smiling.



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"2015 North Dyno 18m - trouble going upwind on twintip" started by JohnSum