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Argo or TRX when attached to Griffin Chimeras

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Created by Seeya > 9 months ago, 21 May 2014
Seeya
NSW, 6 posts
21 May 2014 5:27PM
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Rider: 86Kg, Intermediate 65Yo strapless surfkiter
Style: Freeriding, Surf
Weather: 9 to 30 knots

Riding for a few years with 13, 10.5 and 8m Chimeras.

Love them however cheating with the 13, prefering BRM Clouds 13 and 17 in light winds.

Conscious that the 10.5 and 8m Chimeras are aging, although slowly, however faster than me.

Attached to kites with light bars, wide wind range, easy upwinder, fast turning and self drifting when on a wave.

QUESTION: Should I consider replacing my Chimeras with Argos or TRXs, or else in another brand?

Thanks for helping

warwickl
NSW, 1163 posts
21 May 2014 10:54PM
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Hi, I am a couple of years older than you and have had Griffin kites before the Chimera, which I loved at the time.

I also ride strapless surfboards and find these days the TRX is far superior than Chimera for waves. I now have 7, 9 and 10m TRX 2014, I am 76 kg but suggest board size would be best to change and keep smaller kites, I have 5 kite surf boards to fit conditions and my skill/ability level.


If winds are at the 17m kite level I go surfing on a Mal or SUP.

dafish
NSW, 1353 posts
21 May 2014 11:16PM
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With out a doubt, the TRx. There are many good brands of kites, but this kite, especially this year, has been awesome. I have been testing next years bridles most of the year and they are improved yet again. More power without sacrificing turning speed. Bigger boost and floatier glide. I do believe that the 9 and 7 there might be a slight change in the width of the wing tip to slow it down a bit as it was very fast. Though being so fast, you could control the turning speed with the bar throw to negate the power somewhat. 2014 really shined with this kite in the surf, added bonus was more power and upwind ability.
What I like about this kite compared to the Argo is that this kite and bar set up seems to have gears. You can shift through your power or cut it off once you dial the kite in. I find it rather extraordinary in that regard, and when I first started riding them it was something that really got me into them. The Argo has the "pull in and go" feel and work great in the surf, but if you are serious about waves, the Trx is waaaay better. If you are more of just a booster off the wave, or cruiser down the line' the Argo would be the go as they go slightly higher and have a longer float. However, the direct feel of the Trx without any pullys on the bridle means total extension of control. Input is immediate. Not sure where you are in nsw but I would happily let you ride these kites along with the Argos to compare. Again, loads of great kites out there, demo for yourself because we all have different needs. But make sure you try these and see how you feel after flying other kites. I flew lots of different kites this year and I love something about most of them, but none more than this kite. This kite handles gusts better than all of the kites I tried, some by a mile. 2014 I had wished it had more boosting and hang time with the kites, now next years will deliver as I have been testing the new bridles. The cut on all the other sizes will be the same. 2 knots more power per size and bigger boost without loosing the turning speed or drift.
What ever you get, let us know and tell us how you feel about your purchase.

Kiwiburger
NSW, 33 posts
22 May 2014 12:48PM
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I have a 13.5 Argo and a 17 TRX, and I love them both, The 13.5 Argo has a bridle with a pulley system. I find that it is a very powerful kite that has a lot of pull., so for cruising it's just park and go. I think a 10 Argo with a pulley less bridle setup could be a good option for a wave kite, combining the power from the depth of the sail and the responsive turning from the direct bridled system would make it a good option especially if you have a surfing background and like doing big power hacks.

My TRX I got because I wanted a light wind kite that also had a large wind range. It turned out to be an awesome option for me because it is a bigger kite but it actually turns faster then my 13.5, that might be because it's on a pulley less bridle but none the less it is a great kite, I can get up and going around 7-8 knts start driving upwind at around 10knts and start floating around 12 knts and I'm 100kgs. The flatter leading edge makes it not super easy to roll over and launch from the water but it's not hard either. On small wave light wind days this kite is pretty epic, I can really rip in to some heavy hacks and have enough turning response to maintain or regain momentum. One thing I know for sure is the TRX like to go fast.

high as a kite
SA, 1297 posts
22 May 2014 2:25PM
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Hey dafish,
I have a TRX17 now but must admitt it's not as good as my old Zephyr in the lighter stuff.

Love it in waves around 12 knots though.

10/10 for everything except light winds for me. (95 kegs.)

Using a very flat rocker surfboard.

Will the new bridle help bottom end, if yes will they fit 2013/14 TRX 17?

catalaussie
128 posts
22 May 2014 4:27PM
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Hey "high as a kite",

have you tried the especific lightwind setting on your TRX-17m? It really gives you better low end.


Tommygun
NSW, 26 posts
22 May 2014 10:00PM
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TRX absolutely kicks ASS!!!!
Would not consider anything else

high as a kite
SA, 1297 posts
22 May 2014 11:27PM
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Select to expand quote
catalaussie said...

Hey "high as a kite",

have you tried the especific lightwind setting on your TRX-17m? It really gives you better low end.





I bought it from chris, he had extra pig tails set up on it. I've tried but not 100% sure I have it correct.
Anyone know where there is a drawing of the light wind setup?

GriffinKites
NSW, 201 posts
23 May 2014 9:29AM
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high as a kite said...
Hey dafish,
I have a TRX17 now but must admitt it's not as good as my old Zephyr in the lighter stuff.

Love it in waves around 12 knots though.

10/10 for everything except light winds for me. (95 kegs.)

Using a very flat rocker surfboard.

Will the new bridle help bottom end, if yes will they fit 2013/14 TRX 17?



Thanks for the comments :)
I have been working on a new 2015 bridle for the past 8 months and have been listening to many riders feedback on the 2014 and 2015s.

The 2015 TRX is designed to give a lot more power for the size of kite used while keeping the upper wind range and turning speed. The best way I can explain the difference would be to say the 2014 10.5m TRX had the power of a average 9.8m kite. When the wind died you would come in to change to a 12m fairly early. The 2015 Bridle gives the kite much more wind range and power, with the 2015 setup the 10.5m would have the power of an average 11m when the wind dies i am finding most other riders are changing to a 12m when I can stay out on the 10.5m. Boost is alot higher and floater with softer landings and you can fully depower on waves so your not fighting against the kite.
The 17m also has alot more power 2-3 knots, same with the other sizes. Kiwiburger is on the 2015 bride setup 100kg and 17m

If you have a 2013 or 2014 TRX you will be able to upgrade the performance of your kite with a new bridle from local resellers.

The idea of having a kite that if you choose to can be upgraded 1 to 2 times a year can only be a good thing, I dont know of others offering this. We dont change the kite or bridle for the season once its set.

All the best.




dafish
NSW, 1353 posts
23 May 2014 11:01AM
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Hey HAK, my advice would be to make up the 2015 bridle with some old kite lines and fly and test, then once you have confirmed what a difference this will make then you can either build your own (which is what I have done) or buy one from your local rep. 2015 bridles have improved an already awesome kite. The extra power has helped, especially in the larger kite sizes when you are out in marginal winds. I am not sure but the bridle specs might be on the Griffin website, if not they will be soon for those that want to make up their own. These will only work with 2013 and 14 kites and not the original 2012 series when they first came out

high as a kite
SA, 1297 posts
23 May 2014 1:31PM
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Thanks guys for the feed back.
I have heaps of news line available to have a crack at changing things. (due to the old SS LINKS:( but thats another story.)

To get better bottom end whats the first thing I need to change / adjust?

Drawing or pic's would be great.

Would love to get a few knots bottom end before my yearly indo trip.

catalaussie
128 posts
23 May 2014 1:20PM
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There is a detailed TRX 2014 light wind setting guide (drawing included) on the New Griffin Kites FB site: www.facebook.com/griffinkites.com.au.

Also some info about bridles upgrades.

Just "like" on the site to be totally updated as now the most updated info about Griffin Kites is there

Give it a try!!!

You can ask there if you have any doubt about it. Chris or some of the riders trying new bridles and settings will reply quickly. Big improvements are being made this season.

strapped
NSW, 157 posts
23 May 2014 7:06PM
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I ride a TRX 10.5 2014 with the 2015 pulley-less bridle prototype on it. It is my go to kite for most occasions. I ride a 6'3'' surfboard weigh 73kgs and can get out and have fun in 15kts. I have surfed with it in less probably 12-13kts but have to walk back, the smoothness of the waves makes up for that. I use it up to 20-25kts but have been out in southerlies that develop quickly and could still handle the kite. My high wind kite is the 7 mt Argo which also is my favourite kite and I feel safe on it in 35kts (though super powered up).
The difference between the 2, as I have flown argos and TRX's in the different sizes is the TRX turns tighter and quicker it is also very forgiving in gusty conditions. Through the turns sheeting out releases power enabling you to surf and slow down. It can handle slack line well and steers very direct as there is no pulley on the bridle. The Argo is a very solid kite and likes to pull which is great for powered riding. It can also depower quickly and generate a lot of power. It has a smaller window than the TRX which makes it a good wave riding kite.
The reason I have one of each is that for me the 7 TRX felt too fast and twitchy where as the argo is solid and predictable in high winds. However the TRX 10.5 feels so reliable through its wind range and I always leave the water with a smile.



high as a kite
SA, 1297 posts
24 May 2014 9:54AM
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Thanks cat for the link.

before I start adjusting line I would like to know what I am trying to achieve( I know better bottom end ) but what am I trying to achieve eg, lengthen line to alter a of a etc?

dafish
NSW, 1353 posts
24 May 2014 11:53AM
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Hey Hoak, I will pm you the bridles lengths. The whole geometry changes when you adjust one little component, therefore when testing sometimes you are chasing your tail until the right combo comes along. Believe me, I have been testing all year and when it dials in it is a sense of satisfaction. You will gain more low end, better boost and more drift with softer landings with the 2015 bridle. I would say that this next generation of bridle is about as far as we can extract from the cut of this kite. You will not be disappointed by the fact that with a simple bridle upgrade you will have a 2015 kite for very little outlay. With this mod I have been out against the mighty Zephyr in the most marginal winds. The difference is that the Trx turns so much faster. My friend who has the Zeph always comments when he sees me looping this kite down the line that his kite cannot do that. I do think the Zeph has better glide in the jump side of it though. Pm me if you need more details

dafish
NSW, 1353 posts
24 May 2014 12:01PM
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Lets see if this comes up




high as a kite
SA, 1297 posts
24 May 2014 9:54PM
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Thanks Dafish,
I'll see how I go.

KiteDesigner
NSW, 167 posts
25 May 2014 2:23AM
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I am still fine tuning the 17 and 14m trx for 2015 release to get the most out of it, as they are now the performance increase is large,, if your going to make the above bridle you can always get the factory bridle later on, the line 1425, works better at 1475mm. There is 6 - 7 meters of line in the bridle above. its amazing what a 5cm change can do. Take care to make the bridle accurately.

dafish
NSW, 1353 posts
25 May 2014 9:57AM
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Hoak, when you are making up a temp bridle, make sure you measure the lengths correctly. It should be from end of loop to end of loop. Start by making a loop at one end, pull your line along a tape measure, and if using kite lines, fold the loop about 20 mm past the desired length. Tie your loop, and by the time it is tied it should be the correct length. example: 1475 do the loop, measure to 1495, fold, tie knot, measure end of loop to end of look. Remeasure and it should be right. Give it a good little pull to ensure the knots are tight and recheck. Millimeters count so don't be satisfied you have it right when it is a few mm off. Once you are satisfied with the temp bridle you can make one up or order one from your rep. I have made about 25 different versions this year testing, so I can say for sure, get the lengths spot on. And yes, it is amazing what 50mm can do for performance.

dafish
NSW, 1353 posts
25 May 2014 10:10AM
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I just got done talking to Chris and he omitted one important fact. If you are going to add 50 mm to the 1425 line, you will need to take off 50mm to the line it attaches to. So make the other line 1778 instead of 1828. This will move the whole point of attachment from your power lines 50 mm closer to the center of the kite.

high as a kite
SA, 1297 posts
25 May 2014 11:48PM
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Bugger, I made up the new bridle today, wish I had read this before hand, ah well see how I go.
When is the 2015 bridle due out?
Approx cost ?

dafish
NSW, 1353 posts
26 May 2014 9:16AM
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shouldn't matter, take your attachment point off and tie a figure 8 knot 50mm toward the center of the kite (if you are using kite lines as a temp) This is where you will attach your pigtail. tie the 1828 line and the 1475 line together, then attach to the shoulder of the wing. You will get the same results.

catalaussie
128 posts
26 May 2014 3:15PM
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Most updated info about GRIFFIN KITES (including bridle-upgrades latest versions and availability) will be on-line on www.facebook.com/griffinkites.com.au.

Just "like" there to be automatically updated

catalaussie
128 posts
29 May 2014 4:48PM
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General info about TRX V7 PRO 2015 power bridle upgrade for 2013/2014 TRX V7 PRO kites has been posted on the GRIFFIN KITES FB site ( www.facebook.com/griffinkites.com.au ).

Also definitive measurements for 2013/2014 TRX-17m.

Please share as much as possible, so all GRIFFIN 2013/2014 TRX owners can know about it and are able to upgrade their kites and can be totally and automatically updated if they "like" on the GRIFFIN FB site.

Gilly3
QLD, 733 posts
29 May 2014 7:34PM
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Kiwiburger said..

My TRX I got because I wanted a light wind kite that also had a large wind range. It turned out to be an awesome option for me because it is a bigger kite but it actually turns faster then my 13.5, that might be because it's on a pulley less bridle but none the less it is a great kite, I can get up and going around 7-8 knts start driving upwind at around 10knts and start floating around 12 knts and I'm 100kgs.



Hey KB,
Can I ask what board/boards u achieved these pretty impressive results on? Was there any tide assistance?
Cos they are even better than what Griffin themselves claim on their website for a rider of ur weight.
I'm nearly the same weight as u and on my 2013 Zephyr cannot "float around" in 12 knts let alone stay upwind in 10.......

If what KB claims is true, can Griffin Kites please organise a demo day on the GC as there are plenty of light wind days around at the mo

Kiwiburger
NSW, 33 posts
30 May 2014 4:48PM
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Select to expand quote
Gilly3 said...
Kiwiburger said..

My TRX I got because I wanted a light wind kite that also had a large wind range. It turned out to be an awesome option for me because it is a bigger kite but it actually turns faster then my 13.5, that might be because it's on a pulley less bridle but none the less it is a great kite, I can get up and going around 7-8 knts start driving upwind at around 10knts and start floating around 12 knts and I'm 100kgs.



Hey KB,
Can I ask what board/boards u achieved these pretty impressive results on? Was there any tide assistance?
Cos they are even better than what Griffin themselves claim on their website for a rider of ur weight.
I'm nearly the same weight as u and on my 2013 Zephyr cannot "float around" in 12 knts let alone stay upwind in 10.......

If what KB claims is true, can Griffin Kites please organise a demo day on the GC as there are plenty of light wind days around at the mo


Hey Gillie,
I'm on a couple of boards, my light wind board that I'm using is a monterdoor 155L -50W and no rocker It's big heavy and goes upwind well .in flat water locations like Kurnell. My 17 meter TRX has the 2015 bridle system (pulley less) which I don't believe the wind range diagnostics have been released for yet, but I'm sure will be updated on griffins website sometime in the near future.
Big boys like you and I need as much pull as we can get, Demo day for you to check it out would be ideal.

Gilly3
QLD, 733 posts
30 May 2014 6:46PM
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Cheers for the reply mate, would love to demo one in the near future Mr Griffin
Have been on the Ozones for a little while now and love the direct feel a fixed bridle offers.
And yer ur right, the more pull the better for us larger folk......

glendog
QLD, 520 posts
30 May 2014 6:54PM
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Select to expand quote
Gilly3 said..

Cheers for the reply mate, would love to demo one in the near future Mr Griffin
Have been on the Ozones for a little while now and love the direct feel a fixed bridle offers.
And yer ur right, the more pull the better for us larger folk......


wonder how much wind you'll need before you start flippin pancakes on a griffin gilly. ahahah

high as a kite
SA, 1297 posts
9 Jun 2014 11:04PM
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I have tried the trx 7pro 17 with my new home made bridle.
wind was probably around the 10 knots but to late in the arvo to hit the water.
First impression was that it seemed to have a more direct feel and heavier on the bar. I shorten the front lines a tad and it had a better feel for me.

The next day it was around 13 >15 knots. Had it fully depowered and it was wanting to pull me down wind. Hopefully thats indicating better bottom end, time will tell I guess.

KiteDesigner
NSW, 167 posts
11 Jun 2014 5:49PM
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high as a kite said...
I have tried the trx 7pro 17 with my new home made bridle.
wind was probably around the 10 knots but to late in the arvo to hit the water.
First impression was that it seemed to have a more direct feel and heavier on the bar. I shorten the front lines a tad and it had a better feel for me.

The next day it was around 13 >15 knots. Had it fully depowered and it was wanting to pull me down wind. Hopefully thats indicating better bottom end, time will tell I guess.



Hi, use this bridle, the one posted above is not the latest 2015 setup, all the best.



high as a kite
SA, 1297 posts
11 Jun 2014 10:22PM
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Select to expand quote
KiteDesigner said...

high as a kite said...
I have tried the trx 7pro 17 with my new home made bridle.
wind was probably around the 10 knots but to late in the arvo to hit the water.
First impression was that it seemed to have a more direct feel and heavier on the bar. I shorten the front lines a tad and it had a better feel for me.

The next day it was around 13 >15 knots. Had it fully depowered and it was wanting to pull me down wind. Hopefully thats indicating better bottom end, time will tell I guess.



Hi, use this bridle, the one posted above is not the latest 2015 setup, all the best.





All done chris, just waiting for the weekend.



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"Argo or TRX when attached to Griffin Chimeras" started by Seeya