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Click Bar Trimming Question

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Created by TomKites 27 days ago, 23 Jun 2019
TomKites
3 posts
23 Jun 2019 8:19AM
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Quick question about using a 2018 North Click Bar on either a Switch Helium 3 or Element 6. I have noticed that for both kites when using the standard power knot, I have to trim the click bar to max trim to have the kites fly as if they are on a C3 bar with no Depower. This makes sense because the max trim is equivalent to no Depower. However, I find the bar pressure and steering not as sensitive at this level of trim i.e. I feel the angle of attack on the kite is not as optimal as on a standard bar and that the kite has not reached its full power. I essentially want to "click" one or two more times to shorten the backlines even more.

Change 1: When flying the Helium 3, I switched to the power knot and this made a world of difference - the kite was quick and responsive, and the power provided when sheeting in was what I expected. I was able to fly the kite at one "click" off max power.

Based on this initial data, I was considering that due to the Click Bar's Depower / trim range, that I needed to use the power knot on all the kites to achieve the correct trim. Another more severe option would be to shorten the length of the two outer lines with the provided pigtails. However, this could potentially cause me to be oversheeting the kite at max power.

Has anyone had a similar experience? Does anyone with a Click Bar have a standard method for setting the trim? Any help / input would be appreciated!

Thanks,
Tom

Gateman
QLD, 286 posts
23 Jun 2019 10:56AM
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I think regardless of what bar you're using, this is a great video on how to properly trim a LEI kite.

Sandfoot
VIC, 349 posts
23 Jun 2019 6:36PM
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My reply to tom kites question is yep I would expect that you may need to adjust back line length when you change bars, use the shorter/longer line extensions to get the correct bar pressure/ turn speed etc. The click bar does have a different feeling to the front line trim, some like it some dont.

When I've got the kite at full trim on( fully depowered), I look for the luffing on the leading edge of the canopy - (or the kite is getting wind pushing on the top side of the canopy) at trim out or trim off, I want to see no luffing and feel higher bar pressure. If you cant find the sweet spot trim the kite through its full range and you will feel it and then make the adjustments on the beach if needed.

Thats not exactly the best video to explain trimming a kite, blake is trimming a kite from it's FULLY powered state (oversheeted) moving towards it's depowered state(luffing). My explanation is from its depowered state (luffing) moving towards its powered state. (oversheeted)

He also has the trim cleat upside down! . When you use a Cabrinha bar the screw in the quick release should be up !!! The chick in the vid has way to much back line length with the bar hard up against the quick release so shes leaning back to compensate get more power, not sure if that was intentional.

TomKites
3 posts
23 Jun 2019 9:19PM
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Gateman - thanks for the video , I had seen that before and not quite what I was looking at, but appreciate the reply.

Sandfoot - spot on - cheers for the message. I had a traditional trim cleat before and essentially followed your method when trimming my kites. Now with the Click bar, I am trying to find a new technique.

As per the back lines being a little long, When i launched the kite at half trim, the kite nearly fell out of the sky so had to launch at full power just to get get off the beach (I was flying in marginal wind). That's when I was really feeling I could have done with another one to two "clicks" to bring the kite to optimal trim (which was not available until I used the power knot).

As Switch kites are designed for low-v bars with equal line length, I was surprised that a different bar (set with low-v) with equal line length (I'm assuming and have not measured) would have similar bar pressure and handling.

Anyone elses experience or insight into the click bar would be helpful. I'm assuming I will have to go run my lines this week and figure out at what "click" the line lengths are actually equal.

Cheers,
Tom

Sandfoot
VIC, 349 posts
25 Jun 2019 5:46PM
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Select to expand quote
TomKites said..
Gateman - thanks for the video , I had seen that before and not quite what I was looking at, but appreciate the reply.

Sandfoot - spot on - cheers for the message. I had a traditional trim cleat before and essentially followed your method when trimming my kites. Now with the Click bar, I am trying to find a new technique.

As per the back lines being a little long, When i launched the kite at half trim, the kite nearly fell out of the sky so had to launch at full power just to get get off the beach (I was flying in marginal wind). That's when I was really feeling I could have done with another one to two "clicks" to bring the kite to optimal trim (which was not available until I used the power knot).

As Switch kites are designed for low-v bars with equal line length, I was surprised that a different bar (set with low-v) with equal line length (I'm assuming and have not measured) would have similar bar pressure and handling.

Anyone elses experience or insight into the click bar would be helpful. I'm assuming I will have to go run my lines this week and figure out at what "click" the line lengths are actually equal.

Cheers,
Tom


The click bar will be equal line length when fully clicked out or trim off, as you wind the post on you trim on the back lines.

From what I'm reading you've got way to much back line on the click bar when you launched the Switch Kite, so you went to the power knot, which I take is the closet knot to the kite.

So just use the shorter pigtails.

Gateman
QLD, 286 posts
25 Jun 2019 7:00PM
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Select to expand quote
Sandfoot said..

TomKites said..
Gateman - thanks for the video , I had seen that before and not quite what I was looking at, but appreciate the reply.

Sandfoot - spot on - cheers for the message. I had a traditional trim cleat before and essentially followed your method when trimming my kites. Now with the Click bar, I am trying to find a new technique.

As per the back lines being a little long, When i launched the kite at half trim, the kite nearly fell out of the sky so had to launch at full power just to get get off the beach (I was flying in marginal wind). That's when I was really feeling I could have done with another one to two "clicks" to bring the kite to optimal trim (which was not available until I used the power knot).

As Switch kites are designed for low-v bars with equal line length, I was surprised that a different bar (set with low-v) with equal line length (I'm assuming and have not measured) would have similar bar pressure and handling.

Anyone elses experience or insight into the click bar would be helpful. I'm assuming I will have to go run my lines this week and figure out at what "click" the line lengths are actually equal.

Cheers,
Tom



The click bar will be equal line length when fully clicked out or trim off, as you wind the post on you trim on the back lines.

From what I'm reading you've got way to much back line on the click bar when you launched the Switch Kite, so you went to the power knot, which I take is the closet knot to the kite.

So just use the shorter pigtails.


Surely to have the same characteristics as any other equal line bar, the line lengths on the click bar should be equal when the back lines are wound all the way IN and not all the way OUT? Normally you check line lengths with trim on the centre lines all the way out. As you Trim, you shorten the centre lines, this decreases the kites "angle of attack". With the Click Bar, if it is fully wound on, as you "click" the button, it lengthens the back lines which also decreases the kites "angle of attack". Shortening front lines has the same effect as lengthening back lines on the kite.

Gateman
QLD, 286 posts
25 Jun 2019 7:17PM
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Having said the above, the characteristics described in the initial post definitely point towards back lines too long.

TomKites
3 posts
26 Jun 2019 9:18PM
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Gateman and Sandfoot - great feedback, should be able to try this on a Saturday with more wind. Thanks for the incite, will post after I retest.
Thanks again,
Tom

Sandfoot
VIC, 349 posts
27 Jun 2019 8:34PM
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My mistake.

Click bar equal with lines wound IN



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"Click Bar Trimming Question" started by TomKites