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Flysurfer Speed 4 15m

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Created by eppo > 9 months ago, 6 Jan 2015
eppo
WA, 6833 posts
6 Jan 2015 6:17PM
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As some of you know JamesPerth is bringing in the Flysurfer range to WA and he asked me to have a crack on them with the crew and give some feedback. I thought why the hell not, having not been on a foil since 2005 wanted to see what this new speed 4 is like and introduce the fellas to the dark side of foil flying :). (It was priceless, the look on their faces when we laid her out to expose all the bridles for launching).

Anyhow we had a ball on the 15m in winds from 13/14 to 16/17 in the gusts. Turned a marginal to average session into a really enjoyable one. Very stable platform and you gotta like the apparent wind pull from the harness, cranking you upwind from your mark. They all enjoyed the extra power a higher aspect foil (even the speed 4) gives you in those conditions. I can only imagine what the new race foils produce!!

Great balance between front and back lines on the 15m, with a surprising amount of accessible static grunt to load for jumps. Really consistent pull up and through the window for jumps giving some decent height to our best jumper in the crew. It's no surprise there is ample hangtime afforded by these higher aspect foils. All board offs were made extremely easy as you had so much bloody time. Even the multi rotational board offs were made easy as you still get decent feedback through the bar in the air.

And that's really where it is at. It's obviously a slow kite to turn compared to 15m leis even higher aspect ones. It's not a bus but you can't get passed all that aspect for turning speed. But I wouldn't say it's not reactive, you just need to work more with your kite and edge and the turns are very smooth and linear. If you like chucking around a kite then you won't click with this type of kite.

It's got excellent hangtime and apparent wind pull and yet and extremely stable canopy. We flew under it a few times and it recovered just fine. Brilliant kite for cruising around and throwing down some old school stuff. I tried a double forward roll downloop transition and ate some serious sh1t so I'm not convinced even a simple downloop (without an edge of a board against it) is very easy, but I'm sure after while you would manage it. Kite just didn't get around and pulled me at high speeds down wind.

The new material is bizzarre, silky smooth stuff, weird as. The funniest part of the whole exercise was trying to get air out of the damn thing at the end of the session. Opened up the flaps etc, then spent a while lying on it trying to get the air out...funny as. Of course you are meant to leave them for a while ...but we aren't the patient type.

So there we have it, I think it's great to try all types of 'wings' (well kites aren't wings really but we like to call them that) and you would do well to get in touch with James and see what they are all about. We had a ball.

Kamikuza
QLD, 3669 posts
6 Jan 2015 10:39PM
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So you liked it then?

Leaving them doesn't work so well either... You have to actively push the air out. It's annoying cos if you unpack them and lay them out, even without inflating, they somehow sneak air in and became a small nuisance to repack.

Cant downloop? I do it with the 21, so you're doing something wrong If you're sheeting out and looping low, the kite will accelerate around the loop and you'll get hauled downwind. Either loop higher, or sheet out and let the kite rush to th edge of the wind and then downloop...

Plummet
4333 posts
7 Jan 2015 4:04AM
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Good Review Eppo.

13/17 knots for airstyle would be prime for the 18m. The 15 shines 16-20. None the less there would be sweet jumps on the 15 in those winds. Just not super powered like what you like for airstyle.

To pack up quick land it. Open the flaps. Fold in half. Slap the bar down ion the tip and roll up. No waiting required. It should take about 1 min to roll it up.






jamesperth
WA, 538 posts
7 Jan 2015 9:02AM
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Thanks for your interest crew. If you are curious to check them out, pm me or check out my website and make contact that way - all details in my Seabreeze profile. (If you've never flown foils before I'm happy to help out on the beach with a launching / landing and so on. Nothing to be too concerned about, Youngey used Flysurfers of various sizes on his recent trip to Exmouth). I'll be up at Kitestock too - should be fun.

Kamikuza
QLD, 3669 posts
7 Jan 2015 12:49PM
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Plummet said..
Good Review Eppo.

13/17 knots for airstyle would be prime for the 18m. The 15 shines 16-20. None the less there would be sweet jumps on the 15 in those winds. Just not super powered like what you like for airstyle.

To pack up quick land it. Open the flaps. Fold in half. Slap the bar down ion the tip and roll up. No waiting required. It should take about 1 min to roll it up.


Wet, sandy bar wrapped up in the kite? Yeuch!

jamesperth
WA, 538 posts
7 Jan 2015 11:10AM
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Kamikuza said..

Plummet said..
Good Review Eppo.

13/17 knots for airstyle would be prime for the 18m. The 15 shines 16-20. None the less there would be sweet jumps on the 15 in those winds. Just not super powered like what you like for airstyle.

To pack up quick land it. Open the flaps. Fold in half. Slap the bar down ion the tip and roll up. No waiting required. It should take about 1 min to roll it up.



Wet, sandy bar wrapped up in the kite? Yeuch!


I put my bar outside the bag. Oooh that sounds wrong.

Kamikuza
QLD, 3669 posts
7 Jan 2015 3:59PM
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Ditto. Then I can rinse it (psch!) and the sand can fall out all over the back of my car...

Plummet
4333 posts
7 Jan 2015 6:58PM
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You can roll up without the bar in there. But the fastest technique is bar in. If you want to get off the beach fast and wash down later.....
Or in my case land in the grass field behind the surf club. No sand. Get out of the wet suit etc first then roll up when the bar is dry.
Oh... I use the ozone landing strip on the rear lines. Sooooo much easier for solo land.

jamesperth
WA, 538 posts
7 Jan 2015 7:46PM
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Plummet said..
You can roll up without the bar in there. But the fastest technique is bar in. If you want to get off the beach fast and wash down later.....
Or in my case land in the grass field behind the surf club. No sand. Get out of the wet suit etc first then roll up when the bar is dry.
Oh... I use the ozone landing strip on the rear lines. Sooooo much easier for solo land.


I've not tried that mod. Where are you running that additional line - from the furthest away plastic balls ? What's the difference to just using them ?

Kamikuza
QLD, 3669 posts
7 Jan 2015 11:31PM
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One handed back stalling....?

Plummet
4333 posts
8 Jan 2015 3:25AM
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Kamikuza said..
One handed back stalling....?



Select to expand quote
jamesperth said..

Plummet said..
You can roll up without the bar in there. But the fastest technique is bar in. If you want to get off the beach fast and wash down later.....
Or in my case land in the grass field behind the surf club. No sand. Get out of the wet suit etc first then roll up when the bar is dry.
Oh... I use the ozone landing strip on the rear lines. Sooooo much easier for solo land.



I've not tried that mod. Where are you running that additional line - from the furthest away plastic balls ? What's the difference to just using them ?


Yes and yes. Then you can loop the strop around a post or teather and walk to the kite and manually flag it out..... zero tangles.

Go to 3.30 of this crappy video and get an idea of the ease of landing on the strop then teathering it.



Kamikuza
QLD, 3669 posts
8 Jan 2015 12:32PM
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More than one way to skin a cat.

carl vader
28 posts
8 Jan 2015 7:37PM
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I love my Speed 4 15 Lotus and I totally agree with the Eppo's review. Here's a short video of some sessions in which I rode with the Lotus 12 and the Lotus 15:

www.standuppaddling.it/kiteboarding-waterrmania-122/3042-watermania-flysurfer-speed-4-lotus-review.html

Cheers

Carlo

jamesperth
WA, 538 posts
8 Jan 2015 9:11PM
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carl vader said..
I love my Speed 4 15 Lotus and I totally agree with the Eppo's review. Here's a short video of some sessions in which I rode with the Lotus 12 and the Lotus 15:

www.standuppaddling.it/kiteboarding-waterrmania-122/3042-watermania-flysurfer-speed-4-lotus-review.html

Cheers

Carlo



Sound like we have the Italians, Kiwi's and Japanese-Aussie's sorted for a review-off. or at least we all have some local contacts for the next overseas holiday. Like a southern hemisphere thing, except Italy is obviously not. Sorry Carl ! I don't think the Italians play rugby or cricket :) Never mind. Love your videos in any case :) Ciao.

Plummet
4333 posts
9 Jan 2015 4:12AM
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I'd like to add that I've flown the 12m and the 18m speed 4 lotus recently. I own a speed3 15m deluxe. Plus Ozone edges.

The speed for is So smooth in the air. Silken smooth. Smooth as a babies bum!... And stable it is far more stable than my old speed 4. I also noticed the material. Its really slippery stuff. Cool I liked it.

Any way the speed for has that speed feel. It cranks upwind and boosts to the moon. Like flat water and going faster more than chop and waves. My session on the 12m was a little unfortunate as a had a hell current running with the wind and it was a constant beach breach break ****ewash/chop/waves beating at the against me constantly. Any way I managed some sweet jumps in those conditions and one time I went through the washing mashine on a heat high dumper. It pulled me directly towards the kite. As I was going through the rinse cycle I thought on no I'm going to put a borrowed several thousand dollar kite into the waves. If I was on an lei the slack line would have sent it into the water. Anyway. When I popped up surprisingly the 12 was still floating above me. Very nice. VERY stable and forgiving.

I then jumped on a 12m Ozone Chrono. My god what an insane kite. Better upwind, better jumping than the speed but a very difficult to fly by comparison. The speed was stable easy and smooth. The Chrono Aggressive punchy and would collapse if you slack lined it too much. If you pilot them correctly they are a mad kite. Mad. I Can see why they are winning races.


So Chrono if you want speed, upwind ability and to tame a wild beast. Speed 4 if you want monster air time with super stability.

To compare the speed4 with my Ozone Edges. The 12m was caparible with my 13 edge for power. Boosts of the flat are better on the speed. Glide is also superior on the speed compared to the edge. However I think the edge has the edge (hehe) when boosting off wave lips as you can more easily time with boost with the approaching lip better on the edge as its a lot faster than the speed.

Then I got to try the 18m on the landboard in 10-17 knots. Note that I fly the same size kites on landboard that I do on the water. My god what a power house of a kite. I was fully lit and boosting some insane airs on the landboard sub 15 knots. The 18 speed has significantly more grunt that the Ozone Zephur!... Whoa!.

If you want to be pulled off the water and glide around the sky sup 15 knots forget the lei's they suck by comparison. Get one of these monsters....

jamesperth
WA, 538 posts
11 Jan 2015 7:03PM
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Finally got a chance to spend a few hours on the S415 this afternoon. I used to have the old version - Speed 2 15 and the difference between old and new is dramatic. much more responsive, better bar feel, no backstalling and far less tip tucking. I think the new Lotus fabric has a lot to do with it as the bridle looks pretty similar to me. Anyone with time on the old generation foils ought to give these new ones a go - it's like night and day. Yellow arrows all day, i think 14-16 its, I was at City Beach just north of the nth groyne. GPS (yep I've become one of those geeks) said 20km travelled in the first hour, forgot to restart it for the 2nd session. Everything in the posts above sums it up - super stable, light bar pressure, massive power once apparent wind kicks in, slower than comparable LEI's but fast enough to downloop if you want. I am the first to admit I am a hack when it comes to TT tricks, but back rolls on my good side - too easy, almost almost over rotated as i had so much time and easy to pull great big floaty jumps with lots of hang time. I had a crack at a few double rotations, can't say i landed any with style but these things give you the confidence to have a crack as they just sit there and behave when you mess it up. The first time you overfly the kite and watch it fly backwards (with slack lines) is slightly confronting but it just behaves. I've watched my old Speed 2 tie itself it knots in the same situation but the new ones are so much better. Offered some tests to other crew, only had one taker but the rejections were interesting : i don't want to sink it, i might damage it, I used to fly [old] foils but now prefer LEI's... C'mon guys - give 'em a go !

Kamikuza
QLD, 3669 posts
12 Jan 2015 12:46AM
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Pretty sure that the Speed3 introduced the triple adaptive canopy doodah - the canopy also goes more C-shaped when you sheet out, which improves all sorts of things like range, stability, and turning. I had a S2 19 and the S3 21 is much, much better. I bet a nice new 4-21 would be even better :D

Rotations are so easy - doubles are a breeze, triples too. So much float, and the 21 is slow enough that you can't loop yourself into hospital.

14Toeside
27 posts
12 Jan 2015 2:34AM
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Have several sessions on the Speed 4 21. Crazy how stable it is overhead w you hardly feeling any wind on the beach. Fly it w 3M extensions as this seems to find the Kites sweet spot as I did with Speed 3 and 2. You think the 18 has power?? Hold on w the 21 in Crazy Ultra light wind. Great Depower. I have had it in gusts up yo 20 mph and it's very manageable.

With my Speed 21 and my 6 ft 5 SWEEEEET Potato I cant see how I could go in lighter wind EVEN w a Foilboard. I would have to prove it to myself.



14

Loftywinds
QLD, 2060 posts
13 Jan 2015 5:42PM
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jamesperth said..
...C'mon guys - give 'em a go !


Would love to if Marvin gets one in soon!

Plummet
4333 posts
18 Jan 2015 1:22PM
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Here's a pic of the bar with landing strop for anyone is interested. FS speed 3 standard bar and ozone lei bar with strop I've attached. Its super easy to attach a strop to the bar FS or ozone. Makes for a lot easier solo landing in high winds.


jamesperth
WA, 538 posts
18 Jan 2015 4:25PM
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So youve run that from where the leader lines join the flying lines ? I was thinking of making something up to run across from where the furthest plastic balls on the FS lines are. I suppose it's not critical as long as you can reach it when you need to.

Plummet
4333 posts
18 Jan 2015 6:09PM
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From memory the last ball would be ideal. You need to be able to reach it.

cauncy
WA, 6937 posts
18 Jan 2015 7:49PM
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Plummet said...
From memory the last ball would be ideal. You need to be able to reach it.


My missus I'm always playing with my balls

Kamikuza
QLD, 3669 posts
19 Jan 2015 7:32PM
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cauncy said...
Plummet said...
From memory the last ball would be ideal. You need to be able to reach it.


My missus I'm always playing with my balls



I'd have kept the details of cauncy's private time to myself, if I was you....

Plummet
4333 posts
19 Jan 2015 6:11PM
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cauncy said..

Plummet said...
From memory the last ball would be ideal. You need to be able to reach it.



My missus I'm always playing with my balls


If you want to pull your load down faster I recommend a strop between your 2balls. That way you
can yank on the strop with equal tension on each ball while only using one hand. That way you can cradle the release knob. If you find yourself in the powerzone you can instantly release your load when required!

Dave Whettingsteel
WA, 1344 posts
19 Jan 2015 7:08PM
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Haha you muppets!

jamesperth
WA, 538 posts
21 Jan 2015 8:47PM
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Took the Speed 4 12 out this arvo running triangles at City Beach, had to change down to a LEI 8 for a downwinder as the wind kicked. We are getting some pretty epic swell coming in right now, anyone got any ideas on where to put the foils to run down the line ? Parking it at 12 and letting it drift kind of works....

Plummet
4333 posts
22 Jan 2015 8:19AM
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Well the speed is not a wave kite. Never has been never will be. So you can't expect wave kite like perfomance.....

Anyway that said. Impossible is nothing!

Line tension is key, brother!. loop that bastard down the line and be ready to cut back if there's too much slack line.

Upwind wave riding in cross on conditions is sublime in light winds on the speed. You can ride some real glassy wave faces in winds you can't even stay upwind on normally. But the power of the wave pushes you.. speeds the kite up and allows you to crank upwind while riding the wave. Super nice.

Now my all time favourite move on high aspect kites in the waves is this.

Cross on conditions scream out full speed and booooooooost of a wave lip. Glide..... Glide some more glide abit more. Glide so much that you are about to land on the next wave. Downloop landing onto the next face and loop the kite deeeep. You land on the face and scream down the line super fast doing big speedy carves on the wave. Don't ask me why but you can scream head long at the kite for 100m or so with our slack line it after the down loop. Then cut back when the kite is too slack.

Loftywinds
QLD, 2060 posts
28 Jan 2015 2:34PM
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Plums, which one would you recommend? The Speed 12, 15 or 18 for someone between 80kg and 85kg, in winds between 12 to 18knots?

eppo
WA, 6833 posts
28 Jan 2015 2:54PM
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Lofty I'm sure plum and James will answer with more experience behind them, but I would say the 18 mate based on riding the 15 in those exact wind speeds, with a couple of guys your weight. Kind of depends on board and water conditions I suppose and what you want to do, but I suspect the answer will be an 18.... Let's see. Reckon it could be interesting times near 18 though :))

Plummet
4333 posts
28 Jan 2015 3:15PM
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Hmmmmm depends on a few factors. What's more common? 12-15 or 15-18 knots? What's your next size kite?
If 12-15 is more common then 18m. If 15-18 then 15m.

But if you already have 13 , 14m then getting the 18 makes sense. If your next kite down is 12, 10m then 15m.

That's for generic TT riding.



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"Flysurfer Speed 4 15m" started by eppo