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Light wind C shape

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Created by Matr72 24 days ago, 25 Jul 2017
Matr72
1 posts
25 Jul 2017 9:24PM
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Hello everyone,
I moved to Dubai recently and I am looking for a new kite. The wind is blowing around 12/13 knots and my riding is mostly wakestyle.
I use to have Airush Razor in the past and I love it! I am 5 lines C shape fan!
Does anybody can give me review of the Razor 15m ?
Do you think in low winds it's better to have a hybrid kite ?(as RPM for instance), any advice?
thank you very much for your help!
regards,
Mat

NorthernKitesAUS
QLD, 402 posts
26 Jul 2017 2:22PM
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I am with you Mat. C-Kites are the ants pants of kites because they are way faster than most other types, and hence they generate a lot of apparent wind and yep, are great low-end kites. I personally favor the Slingshot Fuels and North Vegas. Get one of them around 15m and you'll be lit!

28 Jul 2017 1:56PM
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Hi Matr72,

I'm sorry NKA, I have to strongly disagree with you. C-shape kites are less powerful than their hybrid cousins due to less projected area. A good 40+% of the kite is in the wingtips which are parallel to the direction of lift, so in other words, the 40% of wingtip surface area from between the quarter and wingtip struts to the tips, generate NO lift at all. The wider span hybrid kites, due to their "open C" shape, have much more projected area because the shape having much more vertical lift generating area

In laymans terms, if the sun is directly overhead and you have both a 10m C-shape kite like a Vegas or Razor etc or Fuel, the projected lift area is basically the shadow area on the ground, give otr take... If you fly a 10m hybrid like a Rebel, or Core XR4, RPM etc, the shadow will be significantly larger. This is the part of the kite that creates lift or power. More horizontal lift generating area means more power per quare meter of kite size.

C-kites are not faster, buy they do turn with more consistent speed and create more power in the turns as they turn in an arc keeping forward airflow over both sides of the canopy. A hybrid, or even more extreme case, an old "bow kite" turns so tight and basically can pivot on a point at or even inside of the wingtip, which means there is little to no airspeed over the wingtip on the inside of the turn. This can reduce the amount of power in the turn by as much as 50%.

The big square wingtips and vertical nature of the wingtips in a C-kite create like giant fins which prevent the kite from pivot turning and sliding or stalling one wingtip during a tight turn. This creates a more even tension of power even whilst sining the kite to create power.

The wind in dubai will be quite warm so expect that the power will be less for a given wind speed due to lower air density. I would look for a Core GTS3 or 4 in the LW (Light wind) variant. You can unhook on them and they are buily light to fly in very light winds. Less weight means more nimble and less lift required to keep the kite in the sky. A good rider can make a Future C kite work very well in light winds. If you don't have to unhook, then look for a light wind specific Hybrid or even a large foil kite like a Flysurfer, but these aren't kites you can unhook on.

If you were in Perth and had our 15 knots, a large C-kite would be fine, but over there, strongly recommend Core GTS LW series over any true C kite. The below illustration is from Corekites.com


DM

Alex4398
NSW, 28 posts
3 Aug 2017 2:21PM
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Yeah i'm gonna agree with action sports here, 15m c kites tend to really struggle in anything under 15knts, you're much better off going with something like the GTS4 LW that is good for freestyle but also designed for lighter winds.

IMO the larger c kites are just too heavy for the amount of lift they generate thanks to those big wingtips, awesome for unhooked - terrible for lightwind. My own 13 maybe gives 2-3knts more low end than the 11m and you'd be lucky to get that much going up another 2m.

carbine
WA, 1394 posts
1 hour ago , 19 Aug 2017 8:06AM
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Select to expand quote
Alex4398 said..
Yeah i'm gonna agree with action sports here, 15m c kites tend to really struggle in anything under 15knts, you're much better off going with something like the GTS4 LW that is good for freestyle but also designed for lighter winds.

IMO the larger c kites are just too heavy for the amount of lift they generate thanks to those big wingtips, awesome for unhooked - terrible for lightwind. My own 13 maybe gives 2-3knts more low end than the 11m and you'd be lucky to get that much going up another 2m.


Its not about lowend. I can get going on my 11, same as my 13m, same as my 15m. ~13knot mark.

Difference is power to bust.

Select to expand quote
ActionSportsWA said..
Hi Matr72,

I'm sorry NKA, I have to strongly disagree with you. C-shape kites are less powerful than their hybrid cousins due to less projected area. A good 40+% of the kite is in the wingtips which are parallel to the direction of lift, so in other words, the 40% of wingtip surface area from between the quarter and wingtip struts to the tips, generate NO lift at all. The wider span hybrid kites, due to their "open C" shape, have much more projected area because the shape having much more vertical lift generating area

In laymans terms, if the sun is directly overhead and you have both a 10m C-shape kite like a Vegas or Razor etc or Fuel, the projected lift area is basically the shadow area on the ground, give otr take... If you fly a 10m hybrid like a Rebel, or Core XR4, RPM etc, the shadow will be significantly larger. This is the part of the kite that creates lift or power. More horizontal lift generating area means more power per quare meter of kite size.

C-kites are not faster, buy they do turn with more consistent speed and create more power in the turns as they turn in an arc keeping forward airflow over both sides of the canopy. A hybrid, or even more extreme case, an old "bow kite" turns so tight and basically can pivot on a point at or even inside of the wingtip, which means there is little to no airspeed over the wingtip on the inside of the turn. This can reduce the amount of power in the turn by as much as 50%.

The big square wingtips and vertical nature of the wingtips in a C-kite create like giant fins which prevent the kite from pivot turning and sliding or stalling one wingtip during a tight turn. This creates a more even tension of power even whilst sining the kite to create power.

The wind in dubai will be quite warm so expect that the power will be less for a given wind speed due to lower air density. I would look for a Core GTS3 or 4 in the LW (Light wind) variant. You can unhook on them and they are buily light to fly in very light winds. Less weight means more nimble and less lift required to keep the kite in the sky. A good rider can make a Future C kite work very well in light winds. If you don't have to unhook, then look for a light wind specific Hybrid or even a large foil kite like a Flysurfer, but these aren't kites you can unhook on.

If you were in Perth and had our 15 knots, a large C-kite would be fine, but over there, strongly recommend Core GTS LW series over any true C kite. The below illustration is from Corekites.com


DM


Disregard this. Technically correct but off point and sounds like a heavy pimp of a kite that is manifestly unsuitable.

If you are doing freestyle at the lower end and want the easiest tool for it you need a big (15-16m) freestyle focused C kite and Square wing tips designs typically have better pure freestlye characteristics.



Select to expand quote
NorthernKitesAUS said..
I am with you Mat. C-Kites are the ants pants of kites because they are way faster than most other types, and hence they generate a lot of apparent wind and yep, are great low-end kites. I personally favor the Slingshot Fuels and North Vegas. Get one of them around 15m and you'll be lit!


Agreed



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"Light wind C shape" started by Matr72