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Ozone C4 12m 2014, catalyst and North Dice 2015

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Created by upandgo > 9 months ago, 15 Mar 2015
upandgo
VIC, 7 posts
15 Mar 2015 4:15PM
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Hi Guys

Ability: intermediate
Riding style: freestyle, wakestyle, freeride
weight 65kg
wind 15k.
board size: 132cm x 39

I have been riding Ozone C4 ever since I have taken up the sport, and I currently have a C4 in 7m 2011, 9m 2010 and 12m 1014. I had recently purchase the 12m to be able to ride in the lower 15knt range. From riding the C4's i have found out they ride the best when there is a bit of wind, almost you need a bigger size for what people could comfortable ride on on the same size in the lighter end of 15kts, once the wind drops the kite fails straight out of the sky and very hard to relaunch. All this could be because of my riding ability.

I am wanting to progress and learn more wake style tricks and it seems in Melbourne tends to have alot of wind around 15knts and the 12m C4 was meant to cover this, but i am finding that a)my level is not there for lighter winds with this kite or b) more wind is needed in general. i would love to say B but it could mostly likely be A.

From what I can tell from the oz 12m is that the build quality while it is top end the weight around the kite is heavy compared to most 12m of similar style. i recently had the chance to take out a North Dice 12m Kite (2015) and in the light end of the 15k range flew like a bird, I was able to ride and relaunch (4 string setup) with out issues do some tricks and generate the power, and it felt like half the weight of my c4. I have also heard that the bottom end was improve in the 2015 then previous years.


I am looking for a kite to suit the 15k range without going bigger do to my size. I want to know about the OZ catalyst 12m and peoples thought if this could be compared to the Dice or its chalk and cheese,

1) is the catalyst 12m lighter then the C4 12m
2) does is fly better in the light 15knt winds (12m)
a) which year should i be looking if this is hte way to go?
3) trying to stick with ozone as i have three bars which i can swap and change
4) cross over on light days to the north dice and when there is volume in the wind take out the 12m C4
5) or improve on something in my riding so i can accommodate this
6) set the kite up a different way

Any information would be greatly appreciative. i will prefer a discussion to happen and good technical information around the issue and not bagging out brands and hopefully favoritism is left out of the response to some extent.


Thanks

John






kemp90
QLD, 1641 posts
15 Mar 2015 7:48PM
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A cheaper option could be to get a light wind board.

azza86
QLD, 57 posts
15 Mar 2015 8:00PM
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Zephyr? But at 65 kg u should be fine at 15knts on the 12 c4
Id be fine ... 75 kg at 15 knts ???

azza86
QLD, 57 posts
15 Mar 2015 8:03PM
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I like the zephyr tho at that 15 knt mark

Greggor
QLD, 191 posts
15 Mar 2015 9:08PM
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Just for comparison I have a 2015 c4 and a 136x41 board and weigh 85kg and I can only just manage to stay upwind on it in 15-16 knots, but it is no fun, one of the young fellas I ride with weighs 45kg and he has grabbed it off me when it dips under 15 and he rockets around on it, unhooks etc. it is harder to relaunch at 15 knots expecially in deep water, but I think I also need to improve my technique.

sir ROWDY
WA, 5307 posts
15 Mar 2015 9:51PM
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Select to expand quote
upandgo said..

From what I can tell from the oz 12m is that the build quality while it is top end the weight around the kite is heavy compared to most 12m of similar style. i recently had the chance to take out a North Dice 12m Kite (2015) and in the light end of the 15k range flew like a bird, I was able to ride and relaunch (4 string setup) with out issues do some tricks and generate the power, and it felt like half the weight of my c4. I have also heard that the bottom end was improve in the 2015 then previous years.



This simply isn't true (in the sense that the C4 is a heavy kite). If you weigh the C4 against all other 12m 5-strut C-kites you will find that the C4 is actually the lightest kite of all of them, I notice it when I have to pack to travel, I can almost take an extra kite over people who travel with a quiver of Fuels or similar.

If you want to be correct you need to weigh the Dice against the Catalyst, then you are comparing Apples to Apples as they are both 3-strut kites .

The C4 has a good wind range, the problem isn't that it's not good in lower wind, I think the issue is more the fact that Ozone print their sizes acurately where as other brands (cabrinha cough cough) ramp up their sizing, where a kite labelled as a "12m" is really a 13m or sometimes even closer to a 14m.

To answer your question the Catalyst is indeed lighter and it's also slightly lower aspect profile to the C4, this along with the weight saving will give you a little extra in the light wind.
My other suggestion might also be using longer lines. What length do you currently use? If it's 22m or shorter I suggest trying 25-27m lines first and see how it goes. Also make sure your bridal settings on the front of the kite (near the middle) are in the longest setting possible.

Plummet
4333 posts
16 Mar 2015 6:24AM
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You right C4 is not a fun light wind machine. It works best at the top end of its range.

But you can work the shiit out of it at the low end. I can hold ground in 16 knots on my 10m c4 at 82kg. But its boring as hell until 20 knots.

Cat will be better at the low end. But its not as fun as the C4 in the top end.

Dice is more fun in the low end than the c4 and more exciting than the Cat at the top end. But not quite as exciting as the C4. Its really an ultra smooth mix between C4 and cat. It's my pick out of the 3 kites listed.

But that said
A) I don't wake style
B) I wouldn't buy any of them for light wind performance.......

Around the 15 knot range you really need to consider light wind specific equipment. Board and kite. As Azza states Zephyr might be the go. I prefer the Edge.

sk1nner
VIC, 181 posts
16 Mar 2015 11:41AM
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I can't compare the 2014 C4s but as a longer term rider of the earlier 2011/2012 C4s they had enough grunt provided you had it setup right and you had the experience to get the most out of it in light winds. As an example at 75Kgs I was certainly able to get going and hold ground in 15kns on a 2011 11m C4 on my 134 TT make sure your outside lines are set to the shortest knot possible (without back stalling)

I now ride 2014 Catalysts in 9 and 12. The 12 had a little better bottom end, but not by much, however for those with less experience it would be easier to get the most of the bottom end (hope that makes sense).


upandgo
VIC, 7 posts
16 Mar 2015 9:53PM
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Hi Everyone

Thanks for the feedback and the awesome feedback,

Getting a zephyr is out of the question as the 12m is big enough for me.

suggestion of a bigger board could assist as I do feel like that there is a drag in the water with the one I am riding, i noticed the other day when I borrowed a friends board which was wider i felt like i was sitting on top of the water more with less drag. But when i was powered up on the 12 North Dice this wasn't a problem with my board and I felt my board perform well. i currently ride a underground flx 2010. I have no intention to wonder from the the freestyle/wake riding style. So if i can adjust my equipment or make small changes to setup to maximise the potential with the 12m C4 i guess i should be trying that before running off to demo other kites.




Sir Rowdy

Thank-you for putting me straight regarding weight and the deference in why it is there, i didn't even think to consider the struts or notice the strut difference between the two kites.

The lines are standard and are 23m lines, i tend to ride on the last knot on the front bridle. with the back lines on the lightest settings.


skinner

what do you define as the outside lines (back lines), what i notice when the wind is 15knts the kite if it stops moving just rolls forward and fails out of the sky. i dont know if this is considered a backstall or if there is even something call a front stall.


board size suggestions?


i guess in the end i want to ride when it is 15knts like other people, i don't want to be the lonely little boy on the beach hoping and waiting for the wind to pick-up haha.


Any the most important thing i can take from this is learn how to work the crap out of a c4 in light winds and dont let it fall out of the sky.


thanks, this is the kind of information i am after, knowledge is key to everything.



sk1nner
VIC, 181 posts
17 Mar 2015 11:28AM
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Yes outside= backlines. It sounds like the kite is hindenburg'ing (front stall).

Next light wind day, shorten the backlines...Under the floats (backlines) there will be 3 knots, shorten the lines to the knot closest to the bar. If you notice the kite backstalls when sheeted in on this setting, back it off and set it inbetween both lengths.

I generally ride mine on the middle knot but I've heard of others adding knots to make them even shorter.

There's a good video using an ozone bar here:




cauncy
WA, 6937 posts
17 Mar 2015 6:47PM
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The bigger board will only achieve one thing, lawn mowing, the kite really won't create any lift, I was going to say zephyr when I 1st read the post, I've ridden plenty of kites around the. 12 / 14 mark, IMHO I carnt see the point of owning them as the zephyr covered it for me, I never look at a kites bottom end, let's face it it's crap trying too eek every last bit of wind from it, I'd gaurentee you'll pull of more tricks and progress quicker dangling off a zephyr in 15knts than arsing around on an underperforming 12, the latest addition zephyr is a cracker of a kite, and a surprisingly good top end

Plummet
4333 posts
17 Mar 2015 7:33PM
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Select to expand quote
cauncy said..
The bigger board will only achieve one thing, lawn mowing, the kite really won't create any lift, I was going to say zephyr when I 1st read the post, I've ridden plenty of kites around the. 12 / 14 mark, IMHO I carnt see the point of owning them as the zephyr covered it for me, I never look at a kites bottom end, let's face it it's crap trying too eek every last bit of wind from it, I'd gaurentee you'll pull of more tricks and progress quicker dangling off a zephyr in 15knts than arsing around on an underperforming 12, the latest addition zephyr is a cracker of a kite, and a surprisingly good top end


I agree with what your saying.... except one thing.

This bloke is 65 kg. Surely he would be powered up on a 13-14m in 15 knots?

Hell I'm starting to grin on my 13 edge in 15 knots and I'm 82 kg.

eppo
WA, 6833 posts
17 Mar 2015 7:56PM
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Yeh I'm in the get a bigger Board camp first. He's got a full quiver of C4s, keep it all the same and gI've the 12m a chance to breathe some more with some more surface area to work with. I reckon he will be pleasantly surprised.

as it has been said don't forget he's only 65kg.

Maybe be some board size suggestions like he's asked, and types.

135/136 by 41 would be a good starting point....


cauncy
WA, 6937 posts
17 Mar 2015 8:14PM
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Select to expand quote
eppo said...
Yeh I'm in the get a bigger Board camp first. He's got a full quiver of C4s, keep it all the same and gI've the 12m a chance to breathe some more with some more surface area to work with. I reckon he will be pleasantly surprised.

as it has been said don't forget he's only 65kg.

Maybe be some board size suggestions like he's asked, and types.

135/136 by 41 would be a good starting point....





For doing what, at 15 knts on a 12 with a 135/136 he won't be up to much, even at 65kgs, if you were 65 kgs I'm pretty sure knowing you, you wouldn't be looking at getting a 135/36 to go with your 12 c4, I wouldnt

eppo
WA, 6833 posts
17 Mar 2015 9:35PM
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I said it was a start mick...there comes a point at that weight where too wide will be hard to make work.

Also so he's looking to pursue wakestyle not stupidly over powered old school tragic like me. Christ at 75kg I'm on an 18 at that wind speed. So I'm trying to put my own needs aside here.

So 142 then...it can't be a big plank if he wants to throw down some spider monkey work?


Emanjay
WA, 107 posts
18 Mar 2015 3:42PM
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+1 What cauncy said. I know you've already said you wouldn't, but zephyr. Just try one, would get you out and have fun (not grovelling) at 12/13 and you could easily hold it into the high teens, say 17/18 where you could easily step onto your 9m. Good deals out there on just updated zephyr.

dafunk
QLD, 549 posts
18 Mar 2015 9:46PM
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I didnt like the zepher at 65kg .
I have a 12m c4 and its great at 15nts
Lower winds are great for trying new stuff ;-]
light n fast board ,big as your game lol!
when it picks up swap to your current board ;-]

upandgo
VIC, 7 posts
18 Mar 2015 10:53PM
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Thanks guys for all the feedback i really appreciate it, it seems like there is two avenues to follow, change either the kite for light wind days or board, i will test when i can since we are coming close to end of season and put money away for a new toy (board or kite).

if there are any more suggestions keep them coming, i will take them all into account


defunk:
what settings do you ride with on the 12m in light wind, what year are you riding?


plummet:
i will also add to the list an edge kite to test,

cauncy:
I will try a zephyr if i can get my hands on one.

eppo:
thanks for the board information




saltydawg
WA, 130 posts
18 Mar 2015 9:04PM
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U would probably be better off with a bigger board for any conditions will help pop and stick hot landings. Alot of pros ride the biggest boards their company produces (eg hadlow or alex pastor) these boards are around 140 by 42.5 and pastor is 73kg and i would guess hadlow is 75kg. Not many people realise this i only found out when i saw them at my local

pedleym
WA, 168 posts
19 Mar 2015 5:42AM
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I rode the c4 for 2 seasons I found that 15 to 18 was the 12s sweet spot. These kites can be sheeted in a fair way before backstalling. I already replied about the board on the other thread.
I found I was getting overpowered for unhooked at 15 knots on the zephyr and I'm 85

Don't know if it has been said but Technique plays a big part in kiting in lighter winds. Need to let the kite get some speed before pulling hard upwind not saying that what it is, but somthing to look at.



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"Ozone C4 12m 2014, catalyst and North Dice 2015" started by upandgo