Forums > Kitesurfing Gear Reviews

Zeeko 2016 Alloy Foil

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Created by RAL INN > 9 months ago, 27 Feb 2016
RAL INN
VIC, 2674 posts
27 Feb 2016 4:17PM
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The first edition of these foils was the 2015 model which proved to be the pick of the Alloy Foils.
The 2016 Black&white edition is the natural refinement of its predecessor. With improvements to stiffness alloys and weight along with simplifying assembly plus a little water sealing.
New G10 laminated and CNC machined wings. A new stiffer and slippery fuselage. New Alloys to improve stiffness in mast and anti corrosive ability. And a neat gasket system to stop mast filling with water.
Pretty much a shining example of a designer listening to the feedback and acting on it.
This is the closest Alloy freeride foil on the market to the stiffness and performance of the high end Carbon Foils.
At half the cost.




AntoineS
NSW, 122 posts
1 Mar 2016 2:20PM
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Looking good! So how much is "half the cost" here in Oz? :-)

RAL INN
VIC, 2674 posts
1 Mar 2016 6:21PM
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They would be half (delivered to your door)the cost of a Zeeko Carbon foil if they were $2900.
But Zeeko Carbon foils are a bit less than that.

toppleover
QLD, 1497 posts
1 Mar 2016 6:53PM
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Just a straight up price please, no BS.

Delivery is another story.

bjw
NSW, 2670 posts
1 Mar 2016 8:29PM
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So is that $1450 or is that mean other foils cost 5800?

RAL INN
VIC, 2674 posts
2 Mar 2016 3:09AM
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Not being a seabreeze sponsor it's uncool for me to give prices here.
But they are on our Facebook page at
3Inlets Windsports
Or pm me

bjw
NSW, 2670 posts
2 Mar 2016 5:44AM
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Tell em the price son

thefacts
51 posts
2 Mar 2016 7:20AM
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As a rule I know nothing about facebook but managed to get on to the page, buggered if I can find pricing without having to waste 10 minutes of my life scrolling and reading through all the posts.

RAL INN
VIC, 2674 posts
2 Mar 2016 12:05PM
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I'd better move it up then

harlie
QLD, 188 posts
2 Mar 2016 1:37PM
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Select to expand quote
thefacts said..
As a rule I know nothing about facebook but managed to get on to the page, buggered if I can find pricing without having to waste 10 minutes of my life scrolling and reading through all the posts.


Same here - not interested in Facebook, but had a look and can't really see anything worthwhile about the product or price.

RAL INN
VIC, 2674 posts
2 Mar 2016 3:46PM
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Sorry guys, I think I've fixed it and it's up the top again.
Now I need to do a 5 day workshop on how to keep it at top.

djdojo
VIC, 1511 posts
2 Mar 2016 4:28PM
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Nah, just get an actual website for your business - heaps of options to do that very cheaply and have clearly labeled menus. It would be more convenient for prospective customers and a more professional look than facebook page by itself. Keep the facebook and link them to each other though. My 2c.

benk
QLD, 385 posts
2 Mar 2016 7:13PM
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Www.weebly.com is great to build a cheap professional website that is mobile optimised. It's easy.

cheers
Ben K

RAL INN
VIC, 2674 posts
3 Mar 2016 6:13AM
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I have been going to set up a website for a while now. Each time I sit at computer to start the stupid wind blows.

bjw
NSW, 2670 posts
3 Mar 2016 7:35AM
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Alright Im gunna do it:

Alloy Foil $1450

INTHELOOP
QLD, 1855 posts
3 Mar 2016 11:29AM
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good to start off with but once you ridden a carbon foil you will never go back

Livit
WA, 430 posts
3 Mar 2016 11:35AM
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Select to expand quote
INTHELOOP said..
good to start off with but once you ridden a carbon foil you will never go back


depends what you do. This alloy is brilliant for wave riding but you wouldn't know that as you haven't tried it.....

AntoineS
NSW, 122 posts
3 Mar 2016 6:15PM
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Select to expand quote
INTHELOOP said..
good to start off with but once you ridden a carbon foil you will never go back


Hey Marv I've ridden both but the carbon one were high aspect race setup while the alloy were low aspect freeride so apple to oranges.
But real question: if I had the exact same designs of mast and wings, but one made of carbon while the other of aluminium, what sort of noticeable difference (apart from the weight) could I expect to feel when riding?

JacobMatan
WA, 431 posts
4 Mar 2016 9:08AM
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$1450 puts them in the game for me and I guess for your average rider, cheaper than a 17m

MaxVMGRacing
WA, 120 posts
4 Mar 2016 12:21PM
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Think back to senior school.... lets science the S#it out of this

;Like a moving car, the heavier the car and the faster its going the harder it is to slow down and the less it wants to change direction, (basicly heavy car = bad cornering, or light car going very damn fast = bar cornering)

This is due to its calculated kilogram-force or foot-pound force in old English.

www.1728.org/energy.htm + www.convertworld.com/en/torque/Foot-pound+force.html


2kg foil traveling @ 45km/h = 15 Kilogram-force metre (147 NM touque)
4kg foil traveling @ 45km/h = 31 Kilogram-force metre (304 NM touque)

Only 2 kg difference in foil makes 15kg difference at higher speed in what you are ACTUALLY trying to control.
Trying to control/change direction/pitch/angle,(with your feet) something that is 15kg vs 31kg makes a big difference to the feel. Yes you can control both but one is much easier, more responsive and less effort.

The same counts for the whole setup.
Our race setups are light, my foil & board setup is around 4.5kg total (i think)

4.5kg foil & board traveling @ 55km/h = 53 Kilogram-force metre

If i were to take a heavy setup likes of a older TKF foil & board setup at over 7kg,

7.5kg foil & board traveling @ 55km/h = 89 Kilogram-force metre (874,5 NM touque)

Lighter foil & board = more responsive
Heavier foil & boar = less responsive ( which can be a good thing in the first few days of learning)

A heavy board for the same reason is much much harder to to learn to tack as the weight + speed + swing weight is damn hard to control.

kitcho207
NSW, 829 posts
4 Mar 2016 3:16PM
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You forgot to take into account specific gravity of salt water averaging at 1.03.

No seriously that was a good explanation.
Does it actually feel like twice as much effort required?

MaxVMGRacing
WA, 120 posts
4 Mar 2016 2:09PM
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It just means a heavier setup is harder control as you build up speed, so if cursing along and the foil kicks up or bucks out, the heavier it is the more effort and harder it is to correct.Think of the difference of a small wave SUP VS one of those massive barge SUP... which is easier to mover around and control......
I cant comment on foils as i've only ever really tried 2 or 3 and were all about the same weight same material, very race focused foils.

Recently tho, i changed to a super light board, around half the weight of my previous board. My original board id even asked them to build it extra tough and accepted the the added weight as a result.
Before that i didn't believe that weight was in any way as issue, i weigh 97kg, so i figured what difference does the weight of the foil & board make. How wrong i was.!! I did one try somebody else setup, same foil with an even heavier board than my original, and the extra weight had me thinking "its unridble...(by comparison)"

The difference even the weight saving of a lighter board unbelievable!!! .... same foil, just different board. felt completely different!!! it made transitions much easier as it takes far less effort to make small corrections.
A good value Ali foil will get you foiling and as you bought it cheap can sell it cheap, and sell it quick when you want to upgrade.
Even for the non racer or Horque style tricky type foiling i think all can agree the more responsive a foil is the more control you have and the better it'll feel under foot. Just be very weary of very heavy foil+board setups, that would be my advise.

MaxVMGRacing
WA, 120 posts
4 Mar 2016 3:04PM
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@ 3.8kg that's a tad heavy, i hope the board is a bit lighter else you'll be heading to a package weight of 7.5-8kg which VERY heavy and id think would have a limited shelf life before a free-rider wants something lighter.

Personaly i believe a person can learn on pretty much any foil including a race foil, i have local racers that are smoking on their foil after only a couple weeks, and have raced at a state level after just a a few months. Compared to other "Im not a racer" foilers that have taken months to learn on free-ride foils and still not on the level of the newest racers. All comes down to dedication, proper setup of the foil, conditions you learn in, pre-reading and a bit of natural talent.

Anyways more foilers the better, and more people selling the better as we need more competitive markets and a good 2nd hand market in the near future. Good Luck lads.

Kamikuza
QLD, 3758 posts
4 Mar 2016 8:23PM
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This must be a carbon fibre stone block...

?t=44s

...

You're using the equation wrong. You're calculating the kinetic energy (1/2mv^2) of the "body" due to it's motion...that's all. Why convert that to torque, which describes the force necessary to rotate something around a point? It doesn't mean anything in this case. You need to consider the inertia of the system and the impulse force required to change the board's trim, direction etc.

Given that it's balancing on top of a foil, it's rather complex, I bet...and not as hard work as your figures make out. Like the guy with the block.

Saffer
VIC, 4374 posts
4 Mar 2016 10:23PM
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Select to expand quote
MaxVMGRacing said..
Think back to senior school.... lets science the S#it out of this

;Like a moving car, the heavier the car and the faster its going the harder it is to slow down and the less it wants to change direction, (basicly heavy car = bad cornering, or light car going very damn fast = bar cornering)

This is due to its calculated kilogram-force or foot-pound force in old English.

www.1728.org/energy.htm + www.convertworld.com/en/torque/Foot-pound+force.html


2kg foil traveling @ 45km/h = 15 Kilogram-force metre (147 NM touque)
4kg foil traveling @ 45km/h = 31 Kilogram-force metre (304 NM touque)

Only 2 kg difference in foil makes 15kg difference at higher speed in what you are ACTUALLY trying to control.
Trying to control/change direction/pitch/angle,(with your feet) something that is 15kg vs 31kg makes a big difference to the feel. Yes you can control both but one is much easier, more responsive and less effort.

The same counts for the whole setup.
Our race setups are light, my foil & board setup is around 4.5kg total (i think)

4.5kg foil & board traveling @ 55km/h = 53 Kilogram-force metre

If i were to take a heavy setup likes of a older TKF foil & board setup at over 7kg,

7.5kg foil & board traveling @ 55km/h = 89 Kilogram-force metre (874,5 NM touque)

Lighter foil & board = more responsive
Heavier foil & boar = less responsive ( which can be a good thing in the first few days of learning)

A heavy board for the same reason is much much harder to to learn to tack as the weight + speed + swing weight is damn hard to control.


I don't agree with this. When you are on a foil, you aren't talking about moving the object physically so I don't think you can use this, you are talking about redirecting which does't necessarily take that much effort. For example, if you're in a car, and it doesn't have power steering, I would disagree that twice as much force is required to change direction as would be required at lower speed, and most of the time I assume you wouldn't want sudden hard turns at 180 degrees, you would slow and turn. So in short, I don't believe level of force required to turn the board would be anything close to twice the amount, much the same as turning a kite board probably wouldn't be twice the effort.

RAL INN
VIC, 2674 posts
5 Mar 2016 7:39AM
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Glad to see you guys using common sense and not a formula in isolation.
Maneuvuring a board at speed is about steering it not moving it 90 180 or whatever degrees.
My setup with a 2000 model 195cm directional kiteboard with a few repairs is probably as heavy as a board as you could get.
Under way the only remotely thing you feel is the swing weight of the long nose.
Which besides being noticeable, is relatively insignificant. Far outweighed by the benefits of the extra nose rocker and length for the nose dive stage.
Zeeko as we know have their Carbon foils and with 3 choices of front wings. But these Alloy foils are a great entry foil that actually out performs quite a few of the Carbon foils on the market.
But at a price that will get many more Kiters into foiling than if the only choice were Carbon.

Kamikuza
QLD, 3758 posts
5 Mar 2016 11:49AM
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One single red thumb each,moor the last three posts

Mass is a factor in overcoming inertia, but it's just not that simple...

RAL INN
VIC, 2674 posts
6 Mar 2016 6:08AM
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Select to expand quote
Kamikuza said...
One single red thumb each,moor the last three posts

Mass is a factor in overcoming inertia, but it's just not that simple...


Simply put but maybe we need moor

Gtease
NSW, 10 posts
6 Mar 2016 6:42AM
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Simple answer try both if you can get your hands on a demo, You will end up on a carbon foil in the end. At the price of two new kites the foil is a great investment.

Gorgo
VIC, 4134 posts
6 Mar 2016 7:23AM
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I have hefted all the carbon foils I can get my hands on and none of them are light at all. Most are heavier than the Liquid Force and Zeeko aluminium foils.

I have no interest in spending $2800 on just a foil. As a complete beginner I could not demo anything because I had no skills. My skills have developed to a point where I could demo a foil and make some sensible decisions but demo gear is not readily available. When I upgrade I don't want to be people's reject foils.

When I buy a new foil kit I want a quality product that can be broken down and set up quickly and easily.

There's already a sport where you need mega-expensive gear and a van to carry it round in. It's called windsurfing.

RAL INN
VIC, 2674 posts
6 Mar 2016 8:21AM
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I'd actually like to see the weights of the stiff carbon foils.
Maybe independent owners could post the weight of their foils.



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"Zeeko 2016 Alloy Foil" started by RAL INN