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Autopilot (Hydraulic) - What do you run / like ?

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Created by GusTee Wednesday, 20 May 2020
GusTee
NSW, 252 posts
Wednesday , 20 May 2020 7:23AM
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I was looking at Coursemaster, because it's locally made in Australia. Then seen too many reviews calling it 'Cursemaster' etc.

My boat has hydraulic steering, approx 200cc ram. Most brands seems to use the same pump, looking at the photos. I would like one with rudder feed back.

B&G, Raymarine, Simrad, in comparison the user display looks more modern, but that doesn't relate to better performance.

For me, I'm looking at reliability and low power consumption as priority, neither of which is going to be possible to judge from spec sheets.

What brand do you run? How old is it? What would you replace it with of you had to do it again?

Thanks a lot.

shaggybaxter
QLD, 2052 posts
Wednesday , 20 May 2020 7:42AM
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Hi Gus,
NKE Gyropilot 2, best ROI out of all the whole build, awesome piece of kit. Mind you, the pilot is only as good as the sensor inputs, aside from the normal stuff I'd really recommend a roll/pitch/yaw sensor for crap conditions, it's worth every cent.
Power draw is dependent on a well balanced boat of course, properly trimmed the helm doesnt move more than an inch or two and the power is nothing.
The only critique I have had with the NKE was a period where the helm would randomly snap hard left or right. Turned out to be my fault, I had it set to solo mode and my wrist mob transmitter battery was going flat, so it kept thinking I had gone overboard

lydia
1034 posts
Wednesday , 20 May 2020 5:47AM
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Had TMQ on two boats.
Commercial quality kit and not sailing performance kit but thousand of hours trouble free.

Ramona
NSW, 5570 posts
Wednesday , 20 May 2020 8:48AM
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I used TMQ as well. All the fishing vessels in this port used TMQ bar one with a Coursemaster. Mates Coursmaster gave him trouble. TMQ were made in Queensland and I did have to send mine away for a service but I would rate them as excellent.

Ilenart
97 posts
Wednesday , 20 May 2020 1:34PM
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I had a very old Coursemaster hydraulic steering on a 45 ft yacht, was probably over 30 years old. Worked fine without any problems. As far as I could see it was original with no repairs by POs. It was matched to a brand of autopilot I had never heared of, which was useless. However the yacht was a long keel ketch and so steady you could set it up to mostly sail itself.

The hydraulic steering gave no feedback but their was a VDO rudder position indicator that worked fine.

Ilenart

Stockie
NSW, 223 posts
Wednesday , 20 May 2020 9:01PM
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I have a Raymarine, installed it myself on a 37 foot modern Bavaria. So not a long keel boat, rather a flighty, highly responsive type of boat. I first bought a wheel pilot type, but luckily I phoned RM and spoke to A guru who put me straight on matching up the right unit. So he advised, adding 20 % to your listed displacement of the boat. To allow for all the extra crap that we non racers carry around. So in my case that resulted in buying a bigger system. Mine is electric/ mechanical, but I guess the same applies to your hydraulic pump system, RM have electro/hydraulic actuators. I some how ended up with an extra rudder position sensor, if your keen? I love the performance of the system, the 9 axis guidance is really precise, mine is set to also work of the wind direction indicator and works amazingly well to windward, it can keep the headsail tell tails flowing perfectly. Downwind is better on course degrees setting, but this is simple one touch toggle between Vane & Course angle. Single handed tacking is spot on, it can even gybe too!
adding a rudder sensor sharpens everything up.

if you already have instruments, it maybe easier to match up your system to communicate and integrate easily!

cheers Richard

2bish
TAS, 465 posts
Thursday , 21 May 2020 2:02PM
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Select to expand quote
Stockie said..
I have a Raymarine, installed it myself on a 37 foot modern Bavaria. So not a long keel boat, rather a flighty, highly responsive type of boat. I first bought a wheel pilot type, but luckily I phoned RM and spoke to A guru who put me straight on matching up the right unit. So he advised, adding 20 % to your listed displacement of the boat. To allow for all the extra crap that we non racers carry around. So in my case that resulted in buying a bigger system. Mine is electric/ mechanical, but I guess the same applies to your hydraulic pump system, RM have electro/hydraulic actuators. I some how ended up with an extra rudder position sensor, if your keen? I love the performance of the system, the 9 axis guidance is really precise, mine is set to also work of the wind direction indicator and works amazingly well to windward, it can keep the headsail tell tails flowing perfectly. Downwind is better on course degrees setting, but this is simple one touch toggle between Vane & Course angle. Single handed tacking is spot on, it can even gybe too!
adding a rudder sensor sharpens everything up.

if you already have instruments, it maybe easier to match up your system to communicate and integrate easily!

cheers Richard


Hey Stockie, I might be interested in that rudder sensor if he doesn't take you up on it, what model number is it?

GusTee
NSW, 252 posts
Friday , 22 May 2020 10:46PM
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shaggybaxter said..
Hi Gus,
NKE Gyropilot 2, best ROI out of all the whole build, awesome piece of kit. Mind you, the pilot is only as good as the sensor inputs, aside from the normal stuff I'd really recommend a roll/pitch/yaw sensor for crap conditions, it's worth every cent.
Power draw is dependent on a well balanced boat of course, properly trimmed the helm doesnt move more than an inch or two and the power is nothing.
The only critique I have had with the NKE was a period where the helm would randomly snap hard left or right. Turned out to be my fault, I had it set to solo mode and my wrist mob transmitter battery was going flat, so it kept thinking I had gone overboard


Shaggy, never heard of NKE until now. Looks innovative, and perhaps a bit of an underdog?

How and where did you get yours from? Appears there is one reseller in Adelaide.

Can you compare performance against other brands you've had/used?

GusTee
NSW, 252 posts
Friday , 22 May 2020 10:50PM
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Select to expand quote
lydia said..
Had TMQ on two boats.
Commercial quality kit and not sailing performance kit but thousand of hours trouble free.


Ramona and Lydia, TMQ seems to have a strong following in commercial applications. Possibly one of the most rugged based on reviews. I can't seem to find a lot of info on sailboats running them. I like the fact that it's made here in Australia.

GusTee
NSW, 252 posts
Friday , 22 May 2020 10:57PM
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Select to expand quote
Stockie said..
I have a Raymarine, installed it myself on a 37 foot modern Bavaria. So not a long keel boat, rather a flighty, highly responsive type of boat. I first bought a wheel pilot type, but luckily I phoned RM and spoke to A guru who put me straight on matching up the right unit. So he advised, adding 20 % to your listed displacement of the boat. To allow for all the extra crap that we non racers carry around. So in my case that resulted in buying a bigger system. Mine is electric/ mechanical, but I guess the same applies to your hydraulic pump system, RM have electro/hydraulic actuators. I some how ended up with an extra rudder position sensor, if your keen? I love the performance of the system, the 9 axis guidance is really precise, mine is set to also work of the wind direction indicator and works amazingly well to windward, it can keep the headsail tell tails flowing perfectly. Downwind is better on course degrees setting, but this is simple one touch toggle between Vane & Course angle. Single handed tacking is spot on, it can even gybe too!
adding a rudder sensor sharpens everything up.

if you already have instruments, it maybe easier to match up your system to communicate and integrate easily!

cheers Richard


Thanks for your take on your Raymarine Richard. They seem quite popular and easy to find, which is appealing. You mentioned you did the install, any pain along the way? Where did you get yours from?

GusTee
NSW, 252 posts
Friday , 22 May 2020 11:07PM
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Select to expand quote
Ilenart said..
I had a very old Coursemaster hydraulic steering on a 45 ft yacht, was probably over 30 years old. Worked fine without any problems. As far as I could see it was original with no repairs by POs. It was matched to a brand of autopilot I had never heared of, which was useless. However the yacht was a long keel ketch and so steady you could set it up to mostly sail itself.

The hydraulic steering gave no feedback but their was a VDO rudder position indicator that worked fine.

Ilenart


I nearly went Coursemaster after meeting the guys at the boatshow. Then seen this video of unresolved issues with one and the owner's struggles with aftersales tech support.

Part of me thinks, brands like Raymarine, Simrad, B&G etc might have the product more refined due to larger scale production and design. I'm thinking perhaps there is not a lot of difference between the big brands as long as the have the same inputs, namely compass, gyro and the rudder sensors. The pumps supplied to drive the system look identical.

Stockie
NSW, 223 posts
Sunday , 24 May 2020 8:32PM
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Select to expand quote
GusTee said..

Stockie said..
I have a Raymarine, installed it myself on a 37 foot modern Bavaria. So not a long keel boat, rather a flighty, highly responsive type of boat. I first bought a wheel pilot type, but luckily I phoned RM and spoke to A guru who put me straight on matching up the right unit. So he advised, adding 20 % to your listed displacement of the boat. To allow for all the extra crap that we non racers carry around. So in my case that resulted in buying a bigger system. Mine is electric/ mechanical, but I guess the same applies to your hydraulic pump system, RM have electro/hydraulic actuators. I some how ended up with an extra rudder position sensor, if your keen? I love the performance of the system, the 9 axis guidance is really precise, mine is set to also work of the wind direction indicator and works amazingly well to windward, it can keep the headsail tell tails flowing perfectly. Downwind is better on course degrees setting, but this is simple one touch toggle between Vane & Course angle. Single handed tacking is spot on, it can even gybe too!
adding a rudder sensor sharpens everything up.

if you already have instruments, it maybe easier to match up your system to communicate and integrate easily!

cheers Richard



Thanks for your take on your Raymarine Richard. They seem quite popular and easy to find, which is appealing. You mentioned you did the install, any pain along the way? Where did you get yours from?



Select to expand quote
GusTee said..
I was looking at Coursemaster, because it's locally made in Australia. Then seen too many reviews calling it 'Cursemaster' etc.

My boat has hydraulic steering, approx 200cc ram. Most brands seems to use the same pump, looking at the photos. I would like one with rudder feed back.

B&G, Raymarine, Simrad, in comparison the user display looks more modern, but that doesn't relate to better performance.

For me, I'm looking at reliability and low power consumption as priority, neither of which is going to be possible to judge from spec sheets.

What brand do you run? How old is it? What would you replace it with of you had to do it again?

Thanks a lot.


GusTee, I bought the current EVO series from good old Whitworths, Raymarine the are also accessible for help and technical. I found them very helpful in recommendations. They even loaned me a MFD to update software.
That was when I had an older C70 MFD.
My installation was pretty simple, I was lucky enough with my Bavaria steering to have mounts already to accept the servo motor, and also the sprocket on the wheel shaft. So I ended up importing a Lewmar motor drive kit, complete with chain set up for my model Bav. So it was a bolt up. Some people go with the linear drive, but mine is a motor and chain. It has plenty of Grunt and is not too noisey. So for a boat up to 40 foot with a displacement of around 7~8 tonne the 200 series is great. So you would need to get the hydraulic interface.
A P70 dial is used and this works well, with easy toggling between vane and pilot
great set up for tacking, too. Makes singlehanding enjoyable!

Richard

lydia
1034 posts
Sunday , 24 May 2020 7:18PM
Thumbs Up

Raymarine are a complete bunch of ****s when it comes to after sales service and support.
Anyone from Raymarine can call any time you like!
Sorry forgot to add "dishonest ****s"!

lydia
1034 posts
Sunday , 24 May 2020 7:21PM
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Select to expand quote
GusTee said..


lydia said..
Had TMQ on two boats.
Commercial quality kit and not sailing performance kit but thousand of hours trouble free.




Ramona and Lydia, TMQ seems to have a strong following in commercial applications. Possibly one of the most rugged based on reviews. I can't seem to find a lot of info on sailboats running them. I like the fact that it's made here in Australia.



TMQ sponsored boat in the Osaka race, works fine on a sail boat.
My motor sailer had TMQ.
when I meant sailing performance I was comparing to NKE.



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"Autopilot (Hydraulic) - What do you run / like ?" started by GusTee