Interesting reading

> 10 years ago
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Donk107
Donk107
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LooseChange
LooseChange
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3 May 2015 10:12am
That's an interesting conclusion to come to in the absence of physical evidence or any witnesses. While I agree with the recommendations of what MAY have happened, it in no way can be substantiated that that is what actually happened.
McNaughtical
McNaughtical
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908 posts
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3 May 2015 12:55pm
Interesting read
Donk107
Donk107
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3 May 2015 1:10pm
LooseChange said..
That's an interesting conclusion to come to in the absence of physical evidence or any witnesses. While I agree with the recommendations of what MAY have happened, it in no way can be substantiated that that is what actually happened.



It is a shame the hull was not recovered as it might have given a few more clues to what happened


There has been a lot of discussion about it on the YBW (British) forum after the accident occured http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?396906-4-British-yachtsmen-lost-at-sea-Press-Statement-Yacht-Cheeki-Rafiki&highlight=rafiki and since the report was released www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?429092-Cheeki-rafiki-maib-report but there is still a lot of conjecture over what occured

The MAIB website www.gov.uk/government/organisations/marine-accident-investigation-branch has some interesting stuff on it regarding the reasons why accidents have occured and it is interesting to look at various accidents over the years and what was found in the subsequent investigation


Regards Don
MorningBird
MorningBird
NSW
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3 May 2015 2:27pm
It is difficult to say what I would do in that situation although I have thought about it a few times when in my bunk at night in heavy weather.

I reckon if you find a hull in the middle of the oggin with the keel missing there is a very fair bet the keel came off and the boat capsized.

The communications between the owners and the boat crew are interesting. They had a fair bit of time to prepare to leave the boat but even so if the boat was flooding my instinct would be along the old sayings the best liferaft is your boat and when leaving step up into the liferaft.

If while trying to find the leak and reducing the ingress the keel came off suddenly the capsize would be almost instantaneous and getting out/off and into a raft a remote possibility unless you were on deck with the raft in the water.

On the S&S34 the keel bolts are clearly visible in the bilge as are the rudder post and all sea cocks. I cannot speculate why they didn't identify the water coming in from the bilge, if it was which is most probable.

We will never know what really happened but it does make us offshore sailors think about what we might do if it happened to us.
Donk107
Donk107
TAS
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3 May 2015 3:32pm
Hi Morningbird

I think from reading the report that the water might have been coming in from the keel attachment area and seeping out from between the hull and the internal hull stiffener moulding (like a second skin of the hull) and with a level of water in the bilge it might have been difficult to see exactly what was happening

Or perhaps they were aware of where it was coming from, were happy that they pumps were dealing with it but didn't believe there was a chance the keel might come off

The never mentioned the keel in their communications though other than saying if the weather improved they would dive from the boat and have a look underneath

Because they hadn't taken the liferaft out of its storage area the must have thought it was not a urgent situation before the time the keel came off

Regards Don
samsturdy
samsturdy
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3 May 2015 5:18pm


Isn't that what happened to that solo English sailor off the Australian coast a few years back ??
his yacht was found upside down fully rigged with the keel missing. The rescuers tapped on the
hull and he popped up. He had been sitting in air trapped in the hull. It seems if you don't panic
you stand a chance.
Donk107
Donk107
TAS
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3 May 2015 5:41pm
samsturdy said..


Isn't that what happened to that solo English sailor off the Australian coast a few years back ??
his yacht was found upside down fully rigged with the keel missing. The rescuers tapped on the
hull and he popped up. He had been sitting in air trapped in the hull. It seems if you don't panic
you stand a chance.





I think that it had a watertight compartment that kept it afloat high in the water whereas this one did not







Regards Don
Donk107
Donk107
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3 May 2015 5:51pm
There is a fair bit of difference between the two





MorningBird
MorningBird
NSW
2711 posts
NSW, 2711 posts
3 May 2015 7:08pm
Yeah, Donk I agree with you on where the water came from and that Tony Bullimore's was quite different although the keel parting company was the same. Bullimore's boat had extra water tight structures. Not being able yo see the leak and, with the way it is constructed, even if you did there was nothing you could do to stop it must have been terrible for them.
Reading the construction of the Beneteau in the report and the separation/delamination problems, particularly after a grounding that doesn't leave significant visible damage, is why I don't like such vessels for offshore sailing.
It might be my bias but such structural failures always seem to happen to Beneteaus, Jeanneaus and the like.
cisco
cisco
QLD
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4 May 2015 10:57pm

I have never heard of an S&S 34, a Northshore 33, a Lotus 9.2, an H 28, a Clansman 30, a Top Hat 25 or Hood 23 dropping their keel despite their age, so I think most of us here on the forum are fairly safe.
LooseChange
LooseChange
NSW
2140 posts
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4 May 2015 11:11pm
Interestingly enough I can't recall a J24 ever losing its keel either and they were just a slab of lead bolted through the bottom of the hull.
HG02
HG02
VIC
5814 posts
VIC, 5814 posts
4 May 2015 11:22pm
Donk107 said..


samsturdy said..


Isn't that what happened to that solo English sailor off the Australian coast a few years back ??
his yacht was found upside down fully rigged with the keel missing. The rescuers tapped on the
hull and he popped up. He had been sitting in air trapped in the hull. It seems if you don't panic
you stand a chance.







I think that it had a watertight compartment that kept it afloat high in the water whereas this one did not







Regards Don



Did you know Donk the Australian navy went full throttle to assist that boat, in doing so they used up the Navies yearly fuel ration for that year .
MorningBird
MorningBird
NSW
2711 posts
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4 May 2015 11:52pm
Not quite the case the navy used all it's fuel sending HMAS ADELAIDE to Bullimore's rescue but it is true they went flat out and used a hell of a lot. I was still in the outfit at the time running aircrew training and aircraft combat systems so know the guys who did it. They had to send a tanker down to meet ADELAIDE to get her home. One FFG couldn't use too much even at full power. Navy fuel budget was in the order of 100 cz's or 100,000 tonnes a year.
Raydon Gates was ADELAIDE's skipper and he did a great job getting Bullimore and then DARWIN did nearly as good a job rescuing Isabelle Autissier in the same race. Raydon went on to be the Fleet Commander as a Rear Admiral.
Both Navy rescues pale as feats compared to Pete Goss rescue of Dinelli closer to Cape Horn again in the same event. Goss's story of this race is great reading.
HG02
HG02
VIC
5814 posts
VIC, 5814 posts
5 May 2015 12:18am
MorningBird said..
Not quite the case the navy used all it's fuel sending HMAS ADELAIDE to Bullimore's rescue but it is true they went flat out and used a hell of a lot. I was still in the outfit at the time running aircrew training and aircraft combat systems so know the guys who did it. They had to send a tanker down to meet ADELAIDE to get her home. One FFG couldn't use too much even at full power. Navy fuel budget was in the order of 100 cz's or 100,000 tonnes a year.
Raydon Gates was ADELAIDE's skipper and he did a great job getting Bullimore and then DARWIN did nearly as good a job rescuing Isabelle Autissier in the same race. Raydon went on to be the Fleet Commander as a Rear Admiral.
Both Navy rescues pale as feats compared to Pete Goss rescue of Dinelli closer to Cape Horn again in the same event. Goss's story of this race is great reading.



So was my nephew in the navy and still is he told me the Navy had to slow down that year
I'm not saying the navy didnt do a get job they did an excelent job but the Government could have added a bit more to there fuel budget that year
cisco
cisco
QLD
12365 posts
QLD, 12365 posts
5 May 2015 1:17am

Why the hell does the gubmnt put a fuel budget on any of the armed forces????????????????

They do what they have to do regardless of cost of operation.
morningsun
morningsun
179 posts
179 posts
5 May 2015 7:54pm
Dont forget that during the rescue of Bullimore, the Adelaide sent a chopper to get Thierry Dubois on the way down.
Didn't those joint rescues elevate the Aus. Navy to the best search and rescue outfit in the world?
There was certainly kudos from around the world on the success of both rescues.
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