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The etiquette of buying or selling a boat

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Created by aus005 Wednesday, 17 Apr 2019
aus005
TAS, 478 posts
Wednesday , 17 Apr 2019 1:44PM
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Hi there Forum members.
I am selling my boat so how does it work?
I have someone interested he has viewed the boat and is keen to show it to family wife etc for approval.
At this point we have not taken it off the moring but have started the motor they want to go for a sail to see how she goes.
We have not discussed the price but he asked if i was negotiable of course i said yes but not to a silly offer.
The interested party will want a survey but to do this its a 3 hour motor there and back to slip the boat ,surveyor fees and slip fees and on the hard for a few days i imagine would be at purchasers expense.
My query is when do we agree to price or get a deposit or a commitment from the buyer as all the above although necessary is a lot of time and mucking around on my behalf.
Not sure the best way to proceed what do you recon would be a fair way to go about it or what is the norm
cheers

Toph
WA, 1366 posts
Wednesday , 17 Apr 2019 12:14PM
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I would be asking for a deposit (refundable) prior to committing six hours to moving the boat. It depends on how desperate you are to sell, and how serious they are to make an offer.

If it were me, I would happily take them for a sail prior to negotiating a price and I would certainly make sure the partner has at least been on and view the boat prior to moving to the slips... It does not matter how the survey goes or how practical or well fitted out the boat is, if the 'significant other' does not like the look or the 'feel' of the boat, its a no goer (in my personal experience that is).....

Gravy7
NSW, 189 posts
Wednesday , 17 Apr 2019 2:25PM
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There are no rules for this transaction but here is what I think is reasonable:

There needs to be an agreement on price before you can go forward. You have already indicated a range by setting an asking price and advising the buyer that you will consider a 'not silly' offer.

The buyer requires family approval to confirm 'how she goes' and an out of water survey to confirm it is in satisfactory condition.

It is reasonable, and customary, for the purchaser to bear the costs of slipping and survey. The costs of getting the boat to the slip are usually negligible but could conceivably be added in, at least for the fuel required to get there and back.

As a next step, my advice would be to insist on a discussion on price and, when that is agreed, ask for a deposit of, say, 10% and document a simple agreement that the yacht is to be purchased subject to (a) a satisfactory sail and (b) a satisfactory survey at the purchaser's expense.

Before purchasing my current yacht, I had a similar agreement on a near new 34 footer. Having agreed a price, I paid a $10,000 deposit and we had a verbal agreement that it was subject to a satisfactory sail. I won't name the well-known brand but I was underwhelmed by the sailing performance and agreed to a second outing which proved to be no better. So I cancelled the sale and my deposit was back in my bank account the next day.

Madmouse
160 posts
Wednesday , 17 Apr 2019 12:42PM
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Curious..unless the boat is a unique design whats the need for a test sail? The purchaser should have done this as research before coming to you.

The survey should pick up any deal breaker faults.

Perhaps the advantage is they fall in love with your boat!

SR

Bundeenabuoy
NSW, 438 posts
Wednesday , 17 Apr 2019 3:05PM
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Select to expand quote
aus005 said..
Hi there Forum members.
I am selling my boat so how does it work?
I have someone interested he has viewed the boat and is keen to show it to family wife etc for approval.
At this point we have not taken it off the moring but have started the motor they want to go for a sail to see how she goes.
We have not discussed the price but he asked if i was negotiable of course i said yes but not to a silly offer.
The interested party will want a survey but to do this its a 3 hour motor there and back to slip the boat ,surveyor fees and slip fees and on the hard for a few days i imagine would be at purchasers expense.
My query is when do we agree to price or get a deposit or a commitment from the buyer as all the above although necessary is a lot of time and mucking around on my behalf.
Not sure the best way to proceed what do you recon would be a fair way to go about it or what is the norm
cheers



A agent will save you a lot of time and money.
I am a real estate principal and I alway use one.
He is selling a boat once a fortnight and you are selling one once every five or ten years.
He should be experienced and professional.
$5000 is the right price to pay to sell your boat.

Cockpit
66 posts
Wednesday , 17 Apr 2019 1:07PM
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Madmouse said..
Curious..unless the boat is a unique design whats the need for a test sail? The purchaser should have done this as research before coming to you.

The survey should pick up any deal breaker faults.

Perhaps the advantage is they fall in love with your boat!

SR



For me the test sail is to check out how the motor performs under load and check how the sails and winches etc go.

But I would definitely get the buyers wife onboard before that and agree a price. No point in test sailing or going any further if his price is way lower than you want...

For me ideally it would go like this;
Buyers first inspection,
Second inspection preferably with his wife/partner,
If he's keen let him make an offer and agree a price,
Draw up and sign a contract subject to sea trail and survey with 10% refundable deposit paid,
Test sail (sea trial)
Survey
Settlement.

Cockpit
66 posts
Wednesday , 17 Apr 2019 1:12PM
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Select to expand quote
Bundeenabuoy said..

aus005 said..
Hi there Forum members.
I am selling my boat so how does it work?
I have someone interested he has viewed the boat and is keen to show it to family wife etc for approval.
At this point we have not taken it off the moring but have started the motor they want to go for a sail to see how she goes.
We have not discussed the price but he asked if i was negotiable of course i said yes but not to a silly offer.
The interested party will want a survey but to do this its a 3 hour motor there and back to slip the boat ,surveyor fees and slip fees and on the hard for a few days i imagine would be at purchasers expense.
My query is when do we agree to price or get a deposit or a commitment from the buyer as all the above although necessary is a lot of time and mucking around on my behalf.
Not sure the best way to proceed what do you recon would be a fair way to go about it or what is the norm
cheers



A agent will save you a lot of time and money.
I am a Real Estate principal and I alway use one.
$5000 is the right price to pay to sell your boat.


There are a lot of times when a broker is a good middle man but saying $5000 is the price to pay is not always right. If the boat is worth say $100k then fine but if it's only worth $20k or $30k then it's too much.

UncleBob
NSW, 397 posts
Wednesday , 17 Apr 2019 3:35PM
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Select to expand quote
Cockpit said..

Madmouse said..
Curious..unless the boat is a unique design whats the need for a test sail? The purchaser should have done this as research before coming to you.

The survey should pick up any deal breaker faults.

Perhaps the advantage is they fall in love with your boat!

SR




For me the test sail is to check out how the motor performs under load and check how the sails and winches etc go.

But I would definitely get the buyers wife onboard before that and agree a price. No point in test sailing or going any further if his price is way lower than you want...

For me ideally it would go like this;
Buyers first inspection,
Second inspection preferably with his wife/partner,
If he's keen let him make an offer and agree a price,
Draw up and sign a contract subject to sea trail and survey with 10% refundable deposit paid,
Test sail (sea trial)
Survey
Settlement.


Agree, this is the way I would proceed! The only thing I would add is that often the purchaser is responsible for the survey costs, the vendor for the slipping. It should only be out of the water for a couple of hours at the most. If the buyer is happy at the point that it is out of the water and wants to redo the antifoul or whatever then the slipping costs become his.

Bundeenabuoy
NSW, 438 posts
Wednesday , 17 Apr 2019 5:01PM
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Select to expand quote
Cockpit said..

Bundeenabuoy said..


aus005 said..
Hi there Forum members.
I am selling my boat so how does it work?
I have someone interested he has viewed the boat and is keen to show it to family wife etc for approval.
At this point we have not taken it off the moring but have started the motor they want to go for a sail to see how she goes.
We have not discussed the price but he asked if i was negotiable of course i said yes but not to a silly offer.
The interested party will want a survey but to do this its a 3 hour motor there and back to slip the boat ,surveyor fees and slip fees and on the hard for a few days i imagine would be at purchasers expense.
My query is when do we agree to price or get a deposit or a commitment from the buyer as all the above although necessary is a lot of time and mucking around on my behalf.
Not sure the best way to proceed what do you recon would be a fair way to go about it or what is the norm
cheers




A agent will save you a lot of time and money.
I am a Real Estate principal and I alway use one.
$5000 is the right price to pay to sell your boat.



There are a lot of times when a broker is a good middle man but saying $5000 is the price to pay is not always right. If the boat is worth say $100k then fine but if it's only worth $20k or $30k then it's too much.


He does the same work for both sales

woko
NSW, 402 posts
Wednesday , 17 Apr 2019 6:01PM
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Select to expand quote
Bundeenabuoy said..

Cockpit said..


Bundeenabuoy said..



aus005 said..
Hi there Forum members.
I am selling my boat so how does it work?
I have someone interested he has viewed the boat and is keen to show it to family wife etc for approval.
At this point we have not taken it off the moring but have started the motor they want to go for a sail to see how she goes.
We have not discussed the price but he asked if i was negotiable of course i said yes but not to a silly offer.
The interested party will want a survey but to do this its a 3 hour motor there and back to slip the boat ,surveyor fees and slip fees and on the hard for a few days i imagine would be at purchasers expense.
My query is when do we agree to price or get a deposit or a commitment from the buyer as all the above although necessary is a lot of time and mucking around on my behalf.
Not sure the best way to proceed what do you recon would be a fair way to go about it or what is the norm
cheers





A agent will save you a lot of time and money.
I am a Real Estate principal and I alway use one.
$5000 is the right price to pay to sell your boat.




There are a lot of times when a broker is a good middle man but saying $5000 is the price to pay is not always right. If the boat is worth say $100k then fine but if it's only worth $20k or $30k then it's too much.



He does the same work for both sales


What no sliding scale, no percentage,no commission, couldnt imagine how that would instigate a broker / sales person to try to get the best price

Bundeenabuoy
NSW, 438 posts
Wednesday , 17 Apr 2019 6:11PM
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Select to expand quote
woko said..

Bundeenabuoy said..


Cockpit said..



Bundeenabuoy said..




aus005 said..
Hi there Forum members.
I am selling my boat so how does it work?
I have someone interested he has viewed the boat and is keen to show it to family wife etc for approval.
At this point we have not taken it off the moring but have started the motor they want to go for a sail to see how she goes.
We have not discussed the price but he asked if i was negotiable of course i said yes but not to a silly offer.
The interested party will want a survey but to do this its a 3 hour motor there and back to slip the boat ,surveyor fees and slip fees and on the hard for a few days i imagine would be at purchasers expense.
My query is when do we agree to price or get a deposit or a commitment from the buyer as all the above although necessary is a lot of time and mucking around on my behalf.
Not sure the best way to proceed what do you recon would be a fair way to go about it or what is the norm
cheers






A agent will save you a lot of time and money.
I am a Real Estate principal and I alway use one.
$5000 is the right price to pay to sell your boat.





There are a lot of times when a broker is a good middle man but saying $5000 is the price to pay is not always right. If the boat is worth say $100k then fine but if it's only worth $20k or $30k then it's too much.




He does the same work for both sales



What no sliding scale, no percentage,no commission, couldnt imagine how that would instigate a broker / sales person to try to get the best price


Reputation hopefully drives most agents to achieve the best price, and you can alway put an incentive scheme into most contracts.

SandS
VIC, 5492 posts
Wednesday , 17 Apr 2019 6:25PM
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Gravy7 said..
There are no rules for this transaction but here is what I think is reasonable:

There needs to be an agreement on price before you can go forward. You have already indicated a range by setting an asking price and advising the buyer that you will consider a 'not silly' offer.

The buyer requires family approval to confirm 'how she goes' and an out of water survey to confirm it is in satisfactory condition.

It is reasonable, and customary, for the purchaser to bear the costs of slipping and survey. The costs of getting the boat to the slip are usually negligible but could conceivably be added in, at least for the fuel required to get there and back.

As a next step, my advice would be to insist on a discussion on price and, when that is agreed, ask for a deposit of, say, 10% and document a simple agreement that the yacht is to be purchased subject to (a) a satisfactory sail and (b) a satisfactory survey at the purchaser's expense.

Before purchasing my current yacht, I had a similar agreement on a near new 34 footer. Having agreed a price, I paid a $10,000 deposit and we had a verbal agreement that it was subject to a satisfactory sail. I won't name the well-known brand but I was underwhelmed by the sailing performance and agreed to a second outing which proved to be no better. So I cancelled the sale and my deposit was back in my bank account the next day.


thats interesting ....... the bit about you being underwhelmed by the sailing performance .....

what was it you didnt like ????

shaggybaxter
QLD, 1534 posts
Wednesday , 17 Apr 2019 6:41PM
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Select to expand quote
aus005 said..
Hi there Forum members.
I am selling my boat so how does it work?
I have someone interested he has viewed the boat and is keen to show it to family wife etc for approval.
At this point we have not taken it off the moring but have started the motor they want to go for a sail to see how she goes.
We have not discussed the price but he asked if i was negotiable of course i said yes but not to a silly offer.
The interested party will want a survey but to do this its a 3 hour motor there and back to slip the boat ,surveyor fees and slip fees and on the hard for a few days i imagine would be at purchasers expense.
My query is when do we agree to price or get a deposit or a commitment from the buyer as all the above although necessary is a lot of time and mucking around on my behalf.
Not sure the best way to proceed what do you recon would be a fair way to go about it or what is the norm
cheers


You should be doing lots of test sails (hopefully). I'm one for insisting on a test sail on more than a couple of grand, it's much harder to hide stuff when you're actually sailing the boat. The Seller pays any incidentals related to test sails.
The Purchaser needs to commit to a deposit before any survey is undertaken, the contract stating accordingly that it is dependent upon a survey. I agree that the purchaser should pay for the survey.

stray
SA, 100 posts
Wednesday , 17 Apr 2019 7:50PM
Thumbs Up

The test sail should be part of the survey and done with the surveyor on board.
Unless you have the time and desire to take people out for a joyride.

Gravy7
NSW, 189 posts
Wednesday , 17 Apr 2019 8:22PM
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Select to expand quote
SandS said..

Gravy7 said..
There are no rules for this transaction but here is what I think is reasonable:

There needs to be an agreement on price before you can go forward. You have already indicated a range by setting an asking price and advising the buyer that you will consider a 'not silly' offer.

The buyer requires family approval to confirm 'how she goes' and an out of water survey to confirm it is in satisfactory condition.

It is reasonable, and customary, for the purchaser to bear the costs of slipping and survey. The costs of getting the boat to the slip are usually negligible but could conceivably be added in, at least for the fuel required to get there and back.

As a next step, my advice would be to insist on a discussion on price and, when that is agreed, ask for a deposit of, say, 10% and document a simple agreement that the yacht is to be purchased subject to (a) a satisfactory sail and (b) a satisfactory survey at the purchaser's expense.

Before purchasing my current yacht, I had a similar agreement on a near new 34 footer. Having agreed a price, I paid a $10,000 deposit and we had a verbal agreement that it was subject to a satisfactory sail. I won't name the well-known brand but I was underwhelmed by the sailing performance and agreed to a second outing which proved to be no better. So I cancelled the sale and my deposit was back in my bank account the next day.



thats interesting ....... the bit about you being underwhelmed by the sailing performance .....

what was it you didnt like ????



It was sluggish and unresponsive mostly due to the displacement being 1 tonne more than the boat I did purchase which also had a slightly deeper draft.

southace
QLD, 3967 posts
Wednesday , 17 Apr 2019 8:28PM
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A buyers survey rarely takes a test sail and possibly will be added to the cost of the pre-purchase sale report.

SandS
VIC, 5492 posts
Wednesday , 17 Apr 2019 9:08PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Gravy7 said..

SandS said..


Gravy7 said..
There are no rules for this transaction but here is what I think is reasonable:

There needs to be an agreement on price before you can go forward. You have already indicated a range by setting an asking price and advising the buyer that you will consider a 'not silly' offer.

The buyer requires family approval to confirm 'how she goes' and an out of water survey to confirm it is in satisfactory condition.

It is reasonable, and customary, for the purchaser to bear the costs of slipping and survey. The costs of getting the boat to the slip are usually negligible but could conceivably be added in, at least for the fuel required to get there and back.

As a next step, my advice would be to insist on a discussion on price and, when that is agreed, ask for a deposit of, say, 10% and document a simple agreement that the yacht is to be purchased subject to (a) a satisfactory sail and (b) a satisfactory survey at the purchaser's expense.

Before purchasing my current yacht, I had a similar agreement on a near new 34 footer. Having agreed a price, I paid a $10,000 deposit and we had a verbal agreement that it was subject to a satisfactory sail. I won't name the well-known brand but I was underwhelmed by the sailing performance and agreed to a second outing which proved to be no better. So I cancelled the sale and my deposit was back in my bank account the next day.




thats interesting ....... the bit about you being underwhelmed by the sailing performance .....

what was it you didnt like ????




It was sluggish and unresponsive mostly due to the displacement being 1 tonne more than the boat I did purchase which also had a slightly deeper draft.


so you tested a shoal draft cruiser , and ended up buying a deep fin club racer / cruiser ?

Yara
NSW, 810 posts
Wednesday , 17 Apr 2019 9:23PM
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The buyer always pays for the survey. If he buys, then the seller pays for the slip. If no sale, then the buyer pays for the slip. Of course this should be agreed before slipping. Second inspection, agree a price, subject to survey and test sail. Test sail need not be a major joy ride, just run the engine up to max revs, hoist and set sails. 5 minutes to look at them, then back to the mooring.

Gravy7
NSW, 189 posts
Wednesday , 17 Apr 2019 10:29PM
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SandS said..
so you tested a shoal draft cruiser , and ended up buying a deep fin club racer / cruiser ?


No. Both were production cruisers. The difference in draft was 100mm so not really material. The main difference was, as stated, the displacement - 5.5 vs 6.5 tonnes.

cisco
QLD, 10998 posts
Wednesday , 17 Apr 2019 11:40PM
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Be it a boat, car or house the usual progression is price agreement, deposit, contract with terms and conditions, satisfaction of terms and conditions followed by settlement of sale.
K.I.S.S. principle. Keep It Simple Sailor.

keensailor
NSW, 614 posts
Thursday , 18 Apr 2019 5:19AM
Thumbs Up

I'm in the middle of selling my boat. None of the previous buyers wanted a test sail but this guy did and he put a deposit down pending survey.
She sails well so I should have pushed for more test sails in the past maybe.

SandS
VIC, 5492 posts
Thursday , 18 Apr 2019 6:55AM
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Select to expand quote
Gravy7 said..

SandS said..
so you tested a shoal draft cruiser , and ended up buying a deep fin club racer / cruiser ?



No. Both were production cruisers. The difference in draft was 100mm so not really material. The main difference was, as stated, the displacement - 5.5 vs 6.5 tonnes.


interesting .... i promise this is is not 20 questions ....... so, you tested a 38 and bought a 34 ?

Gravy7
NSW, 189 posts
Thursday , 18 Apr 2019 7:04AM
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Select to expand quote
SandS said..

Gravy7 said..


SandS said..
so you tested a shoal draft cruiser , and ended up buying a deep fin club racer / cruiser ?




No. Both were production cruisers. The difference in draft was 100mm so not really material. The main difference was, as stated, the displacement - 5.5 vs 6.5 tonnes.



interesting .... i promise this is is not 20 questions ....... so, you tested a 38 and bought a 34 ?


No, again. Both were 10m hull length European production cruising yachts. For the next 17 questions, why not send me a PM and let the forum return to the topic?

SandS
VIC, 5492 posts
Thursday , 18 Apr 2019 7:11PM
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Select to expand quote
Gravy7 said..

SandS said..


Gravy7 said..



SandS said..
so you tested a shoal draft cruiser , and ended up buying a deep fin club racer / cruiser ?





No. Both were production cruisers. The difference in draft was 100mm so not really material. The main difference was, as stated, the displacement - 5.5 vs 6.5 tonnes.




interesting .... i promise this is is not 20 questions ....... so, you tested a 38 and bought a 34 ?



No, again. Both were 10m hull length European production cruising yachts. For the next 17 questions, why not send me a PM and let the forum return to the topic?


Thats even more interesting !! one ton heavier for competing products ... every things a trade off though.

I dont think this little side discussion is disturbing the topic .

sirgallivant
NSW, 1407 posts
Saturday , 20 Apr 2019 5:13PM
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Aktually, it is leaving me with the feeling, that you are trying to take the micky out of him, publicly!

McNaughtical
NSW, 884 posts
Yesterday , 22 Apr 2019 8:28PM
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I'm in the process of buying a boat. Broker wouldn't put an offer to the seller without a $1000 refundable deposit. Won't turn the motor on before seller signs off on my offer, and balance of 10 percent deposit paid. purchase is subject to satisfactory survey and sea trial.
A lot depends on how much you're buying or selling for. Selling a boat, I wouldn't agree to survey and sea trial before deposit paid. Too many who just come for a curious look and not serious.

Cockpit
66 posts
Yesterday , 22 Apr 2019 7:39PM
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McNaughtical said..
I'm in the process of buying a boat. Broker wouldn't put an offer to the seller without a $1000 refundable deposit. Won't turn the motor on before seller signs off on my offer, and balance of 10 percent deposit paid. purchase is subject to satisfactory survey and sea trial.
A lot depends on how much you're buying or selling for. Selling a boat, I wouldn't agree to survey and sea trial before deposit paid. Too many who just come for a curious look and not serious.


I would be seriously concerned if a broker refused to start the engine without a contract and deposit paid...It's part of the inspection before you make an offer to hear it run and see if it leaks oil or water.
Unless it's a very very expensive boat...?



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"The etiquette of buying or selling a boat" started by aus005