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question for people in the know .... spectra life span ?

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Created by SandS 3 months ago, 30 Dec 2020
SandS
VIC, 5904 posts
30 Dec 2020 6:55PM
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What are the chances of ten year old 10mm spectra Main halyard failing if after inspection there is no sign of chafe on the outer braid skin ? Could the core fail even if the skin looks good ?
The halyard has been used regularly over the time and never let slap around when not in use .
What are your experiences ?

PS merry xmas and lets hope for a good 2021 ...

jbarnes85
NSW, 170 posts
30 Dec 2020 8:19PM
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Whilst test sailing the boat I now own the jib halyard broke clean off. I think it might have been 16 years old. It was 8mm spectra i think but hard to tell as it was so sun bleached. It could have been younger.

I have heard though that there are boats with dyneema rigging >10 yo and its still fine.

Ramona
NSW, 6018 posts
31 Dec 2020 8:45AM
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I have had a Spectra headsail halyard fail. 8mm with the outer sheath stripped off and tapered before it exited the mast at the top sheave. It broke over the top sheave and I suppose if it had been shortened down occasionally it would last a lot longer. Would have been over 10 years old. Fortunately I had two headsail halyards and had to drop the sail and re set it with the other halyard. Not easy even on a pleasant day single handed. The other halyard was not stripped and when I re rove the broken halyard I did not strip the cover. I thought the saving on windage was not worth the bother. With the main sail halyard the wear over the top sheave would be in different places because of the different reefs but it pays to buy extra rope and take out 150mm every so often.

Kankama
NSW, 325 posts
31 Dec 2020 9:06AM
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My 18 year old spectra genoa halyard failed with no visible wear - near the halyard winch. (I was winding it in quite hard) Made me worried about all the halyards and so I replaced them all - I am not super worried about breaking a halyard when sailing but am mortified about them when scaling the mast on one. I tend to not use a safety line and so I like my halyards to be trusted. I know people do use second lines but my wife and I canyon and abseil and we do far more scary heights on single (or doubled over) lines so I like to be able to implicitly trust the rope. Still the load I put on a halyard is 87kg which is very low compared to the high load I can winch, but still, replace it anyway. If you can ask some friends to go in with you buy a reel from these guys.
www.sydneyropesupplies.com.au/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=66&products_id=509

I bought a reel of 12 mm, but it would have been better if a couple of friends did the same so we could swap colours.

garymalmgren
670 posts
31 Dec 2020 7:16AM
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And here I was thinking off replacing my old wire to rope halyards with Spectra.
I will think twice now.

gary

Datawiz
VIC, 599 posts
31 Dec 2020 11:00AM
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Select to expand quote
garymalmgren said..
And here I was thinking off replacing my old wire to rope halyards with Spectra.
I will think twice now.

gary



mmmm...methinks me too

shaggybaxter
QLD, 2247 posts
31 Dec 2020 10:16AM
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Just curious, does anyone have a mouse pre-installed for replacing halyards?

rumblefish
TAS, 824 posts
31 Dec 2020 1:16PM
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Dyneema has been tested after 11 years in the sun and broke within 10% of its original break strength.
Spectra is a different story though.
There are many different qualities going around, the brands with the white fluffy core are probably more susceptible to salt getting inside and causing internal chafe and some I have seen with joins in strands of the dyneema core.
The brands with the better quality cores should last as long as the cover.
Here's my tips to make your halyards last longer on cruising boats.
Firstly, don't splice. Use a halyard knot direct to the shackle. Splicing will only create more chafe where the splice is thick and stiff.
End for end your halyards regularly
If you buy a couple of meters extra, each time you cut off the halyard knot you will move the chafe points.
While end for ending, take the halyards home, put each in a pillow case and gentle wash with wool detergent.
If leaving the boat for a while, mouse all halyards out, no point taking life out of them when you're not using the boat for extended periods.
And finally, buy solid colours or colour with fleck, no white.
White polyester dies in the sun faster due to the UV beinh able to penetrate the white.

And for the questions about replacing wire halyards, do it!! I won't go aloft on a wire halyard!!

shaggybaxter
QLD, 2247 posts
31 Dec 2020 2:19PM
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Select to expand quote
rumblefish said..
Dyneema has been tested after 11 years in the sun and broke within 10% of its original break strength.
Spectra is a different story though.
There are many different qualities going around, the brands with the white fluffy core are probably more susceptible to salt getting inside and causing internal chafe and some I have seen with joins in strands of the dyneema core.
The brands with the better quality cores should last as long as the cover.
Here's my tips to make your halyards last longer on cruising boats.
Firstly, don't splice. Use a halyard knot direct to the shackle. Splicing will only create more chafe where the splice is thick and stiff.
End for end your halyards regularly
If you buy a couple of meters extra, each time you cut off the halyard knot you will move the chafe points.
While end for ending, take the halyards home, put each in a pillow case and gentle wash with wool detergent.
If leaving the boat for a while, mouse all halyards out, no point taking life out of them when you're not using the boat for extended periods.
And finally, buy solid colours or colour with fleck, no white.
White polyester dies in the sun faster due to the UV beinh able to penetrate the white.

And for the questions about replacing wire halyards, do it!! I won't go aloft on a wire halyard!!


That's a great and informative post.
Thanks Rumblefish.

SandS
VIC, 5904 posts
31 Dec 2020 4:28PM
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Thanks all , especially Rumblefish !! great advice ....

garymalmgren
670 posts
31 Dec 2020 4:21PM
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Thank you Rumblefish for clarifying things.
So, we are talking about Dyneema/Spectra cored polyester braided covered line used for halyards. I have never seen this stuff so am completely out of the picture. I was picturing the silver/grey slippery stuff. No one around me uses it or are interested at the prices that it goes for here in Japan.
The tip to go for coloured line is well taken aboard.

I have wire to rope halyards now of an unknown age. The main sail halyard unhanks and is stored clipped to the end of the boom, so I can see the condition of the thimble swage and the section that passes through the masthead sheave every time I stow it. It looks good. There are no fish hooks or unraveling and the rope to wire rope area looks fine to my untrained eye. You say that you would never go aloft on a wire halyard, so I a was wondering where they let go and how (other than visually) I can check them. You have me a little concerned. The foresail is a furler so the wire has not been seen for a year.

I have other questions about Spectra vs Dyneema, but I will leave it for now,
Again Thanks for your input,
Gary

rumblefish
TAS, 824 posts
31 Dec 2020 10:12PM
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The reason I don't go aloft on wire rope halyards is the same reason I don't go aloft on 2:1 halyards....I'm trusting someone else's splice, plus the swage!

I guarantee race yachts use spectra (dyneema covered with pllyester) in Japan, but if it's hard to get there in sure some of the Oz manufacturers could send some @

shaggybaxter
QLD, 2247 posts
31 Dec 2020 9:35PM
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Select to expand quote
rumblefish said..
The reason I don't go aloft on wire rope halyards is the same reason I don't go aloft on 2:1 halyards....I'm trusting someone else's splice, plus the swage!

I guarantee race yachts use spectra (dyneema covered with pllyester) in Japan, but if it's hard to get there in sure some of the Oz manufacturers could send some @






Rumblefish, you may have solved a mystery for me. My 2:1 halyard is tied in a stopper knot through a very carefully radiused hole in the mast top plate. In the pic the halyard is the grey dyneema line (it's still in the packaging for when we first unwrapped it from transport).
it goes down to a block on the head of the mainsail before coming back up to the sheave.
I thought it was done that way just for transport, but the Pogo fella was adamant this was the way they always do it.
Is this what the idea was, to make a safer/better alternative to a splice up the top of the mast?
Would appreciate any advice, this had always confused me.
SB

SandS
VIC, 5904 posts
1 Jan 2021 5:03PM
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hi everyone ,
who would you say is the best supplier for average punters like me to purchase good quality 10mm spectra by the metre in vic ?

SandS
VIC, 5904 posts
1 Jan 2021 5:08PM
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key words being "purchase good quality 10mm spectra " Rumble has me concerned about quality issues after mentioning the join in the core he found. !!!

going aloft is bad enough for an old fat fruitcake without the added concern over possible chinese rope !!!

Ramona
NSW, 6018 posts
1 Jan 2021 5:45PM
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Select to expand quote
SandS said..
key words being "purchase good quality 10mm spectra " Rumble has me concerned about quality issues after mentioning the join in the core he found. !!!

going aloft is bad enough for an old fat fruitcake without the added concern over possible chinese rope !!!


I just buy Australian made {Victoria} Spectra off eBay. It's always been good so far.

rumblefish
TAS, 824 posts
1 Jan 2021 6:52PM
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Select to expand quote
shaggybaxter said..

rumblefish said..
The reason I don't go aloft on wire rope halyards is the same reason I don't go aloft on 2:1 halyards....I'm trusting someone else's splice, plus the swage!

I guarantee race yachts use spectra (dyneema covered with pllyester) in Japan, but if it's hard to get there in sure some of the Oz manufacturers could send some @







Rumblefish, you may have solved a mystery for me. My 2:1 halyard is tied in a stopper knot through a very carefully radiused hole in the mast top plate. In the pic the halyard is the grey dyneema line (it's still in the packaging for when we first unwrapped it from transport).
it goes down to a block on the head of the mainsail before coming back up to the sheave.
I thought it was done that way just for transport, but the Pogo fella was adamant this was the way they always do it.
Is this what the idea was, to make a safer/better alternative to a splice up the top of the mast?
Would appreciate any advice, this had always confused me.
SB



Yup, great way to do it!!
If I was doing that though I'd be tempted to have nylon liner/washer to stop the rope wearing the carbon.
2:1 main halyards are the worst one to dona covered eye splice!

rumblefish
TAS, 824 posts
1 Jan 2021 7:25PM
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Select to expand quote
SandS said..
key words being "purchase good quality 10mm spectra " Rumble has me concerned about quality issues after mentioning the join in the core he found. !!!

going aloft is bad enough for an old fat fruitcake without the added concern over possible chinese rope !!!


There is no Chinese rope in any Chandlery I have seen except maybe the textec stuff from Whitworths.

SandS
VIC, 5904 posts
2 Jan 2021 6:34AM
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Select to expand quote
rumblefish said..

SandS said..
key words being "purchase good quality 10mm spectra " Rumble has me concerned about quality issues after mentioning the join in the core he found. !!!

going aloft is bad enough for an old fat fruitcake without the added concern over possible chinese rope !!!



There is no Chinese rope in any Chandlery I have seen except maybe the textec stuff from Whitworths.


.... which manufacturer do you recon is making the best Quality spectra ?

lydia
1295 posts
2 Jan 2021 4:11AM
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You get what you pay for!
That is why the price varies so much with different brands

shaggybaxter
QLD, 2247 posts
2 Jan 2021 12:02PM
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Select to expand quote
rumblefish said..

shaggybaxter said..


rumblefish said..
The reason I don't go aloft on wire rope halyards is the same reason I don't go aloft on 2:1 halyards....I'm trusting someone else's splice, plus the swage!

I guarantee race yachts use spectra (dyneema covered with pllyester) in Japan, but if it's hard to get there in sure some of the Oz manufacturers could send some @








Rumblefish, you may have solved a mystery for me. My 2:1 halyard is tied in a stopper knot through a very carefully radiused hole in the mast top plate. In the pic the halyard is the grey dyneema line (it's still in the packaging for when we first unwrapped it from transport).
it goes down to a block on the head of the mainsail before coming back up to the sheave.
I thought it was done that way just for transport, but the Pogo fella was adamant this was the way they always do it.
Is this what the idea was, to make a safer/better alternative to a splice up the top of the mast?
Would appreciate any advice, this had always confused me.
SB




Yup, great way to do it!!
If I was doing that though I'd be tempted to have nylon liner/washer to stop the rope wearing the carbon.
2:1 main halyards are the worst one to dona covered eye splice!


Thanks Rumblefish!

SandS
VIC, 5904 posts
2 Jan 2021 8:28PM
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Select to expand quote
lydia said..
You get what you pay for!
That is why the price varies so much with different brands


If only that was the case ......unfortunately it aint ..

rumblefish
TAS, 824 posts
3 Jan 2021 3:15PM
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Select to expand quote
SandS said..

rumblefish said..


SandS said..
key words being "purchase good quality 10mm spectra " Rumble has me concerned about quality issues after mentioning the join in the core he found. !!!

going aloft is bad enough for an old fat fruitcake without the added concern over possible chinese rope !!!




There is no Chinese rope in any Chandlery I have seen except maybe the textec stuff from Whitworths.



.... which manufacturer do you recon is making the best Quality spectra ?


The best brands IMHO are the following;
Liros
Marlow
FSE
IRB (Oz made)

Then the cheaper ones that are ok but have the poorer cores
Whittams (oz made)
Donaghys

If I were rigging a race boat from scratch and wanted the best I would use the following...
Bare dyneema over 3mm- Hampdijan
Bare dyneema under 3mm (used for lashing) - Liros
Over 8mm spectra - IRB (use a Hampdijan core and can get any colors custom made)
Under 6mm spectra - Liros
And lines that need to be endless - Marlow do a great product for this
Dyneema chafe sleeve - Liros
Double Braid - Whittams
Whipping twine - Liros

On a cruising boat, whittams spectra is fine if you are simply knotting the ends.

SandS
VIC, 5904 posts
3 Jan 2021 3:59PM
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Select to expand quote
rumblefish said..

SandS said..


rumblefish said..



SandS said..
key words being "purchase good quality 10mm spectra " Rumble has me concerned about quality issues after mentioning the join in the core he found. !!!

going aloft is bad enough for an old fat fruitcake without the added concern over possible chinese rope !!!





There is no Chinese rope in any Chandlery I have seen except maybe the textec stuff from Whitworths.




.... which manufacturer do you recon is making the best Quality spectra ?



The best brands IMHO are the following;
Liros
Marlow
FSE
IRB (Oz made)

Then the cheaper ones that are ok but have the poorer cores
Whittams (oz made)
Donaghys

If I were rigging a race boat from scratch and wanted the best I would use the following...
Bare dyneema over 3mm- Hampdijan
Bare dyneema under 3mm (used for lashing) - Liros
Over 8mm spectra - IRB (use a Hampdijan core and can get any colors custom made)
Under 6mm spectra - Liros
And lines that need to be endless - Marlow do a great product for this
Dyneema chafe sleeve - Liros
Double Braid - Whittams
Whipping twine - Liros

On a cruising boat, whittams spectra is fine if you are simply knotting the ends.



thanks so much Rumble , I extremely appreciate and value your advice !!

Wander66
QLD, 283 posts
24 Feb 2021 4:28PM
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I've purchased what is described as 10mm Tapered Spectra Dyneema Yacht Halyard or Sheet from Wet Tech Rigging on their eBay store as shown below, 35m in the blue colour for a new main halyard. I like that they use a quality brand, is already set up and costs about the same as buying the same length of cut line from the local chandlery.

Specs are below and just wondering how well this work for my boat, because it has a solid vang strut it doesn't necessarily need a topping lift but the main halyard is usually attached to the end of the boom when the sail is lowered. If I do this with the new halyard will the tapered section be more likely to degrade if it's used as temporary topping lift? Does the main halyard even need to be attached to the end of the boom or can I just stow the tapered section in the sail bag?

Brand new 10mm halyard/sheet constructed from top quality Australian Made International Rope Braid "Falcon Braid" line - custom made to order. Professionally spliced using techniques appropriate for Dyneema-cored ropes.
Dyneema is recommended as a mainsail / headsail / staysail / spinnaker halyard on cruising & racing yachts, or as a topping lift on larger yachts. This is also a perfect spinnaker sheet for yachts up to 13 metres.
Tech Specs:
Rope Brand: International Rope Braid "Falcon Braid"
Construction: 12-strand Dyneema Core w/ 24-plait Polyester Cover
Diameter: 10mmSpliced Break Strength: 3,800 kg
Finish: 5.0m Taper & Long Brummel Lock Splice, Reeving Eye for Mousing

Bananabender
QLD, 1240 posts
24 Feb 2021 5:14PM
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Hi Wander, If you have concerns give Drew at wet teck a call . I bought the same product for my main halyard and found him extremely helpful.
As far as I am aware spectra/ dyneema does not degrade but is susceptible to abrasion over sharp edges.
I use it on my keel winch lifting 300kgs. 50% of time keel lifted 50% keel lowered in sea water . I renew every 18 months when antifoul done for convenience sake but the old one after a wash in fresh water looks as good as new ( almost).

Wander66
QLD, 283 posts
25 Feb 2021 7:31AM
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Select to expand quote
Bananabender said..
Hi Wander, If you have concerns give Drew at wet teck a call . I bought the same product for my main halyard and found him extremely helpful.
As far as I am aware spectra/ dyneema does not degrade but is susceptible to abrasion over sharp edges.
I use it on my keel winch lifting 300kgs. 50% of time keel lifted 50% keel lowered in sea water . I renew every 18 months when antifoul done for convenience sake but the old one after a wash in fresh water looks as good as new ( almost).


Thanks BB yeah I will give him a call, the new halyard will be replacing a rope wire one so not sure what the sheave is like. Have to go up the mast to free a stuck genoa halyard and lubricate the sheaves using the new main halyard so will soon find out.

dbmgreen
NSW, 27 posts
5 Mar 2021 12:33PM
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Select to expand quote
SandS said..
hi everyone ,
who would you say is the best supplier for average punters like me to purchase good quality 10mm spectra by the metre in vic ?


boatropes.com.au/ is a very professional outfit.
skiffrope.com/ encyclopedic knowledge of rope and boats (might take a little longer than boat ropes)

Both these guys have a huge selection of most brands of rope, and both have splicing skill to be marveled at.

dbmgreen
NSW, 27 posts
5 Mar 2021 12:33PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
SandS said..
hi everyone ,
who would you say is the best supplier for average punters like me to purchase good quality 10mm spectra by the metre in vic ?


boatropes.com.au/ is a very professional outfit.
skiffrope.com/ encyclopedic knowledge of rope and boats (might take a little longer than boat ropes)

Both these guys have a huge selection of most brands of rope, and both have splicing skill to be marveled at.



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"question for people in the know .... spectra life span ?" started by SandS