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Wind Wing Reviews -- Ozone Wasp & Gong Plus

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Created by dejavu Two weeks ago, 1 Jul 2020
dejavu
156 posts
1 Jul 2020 11:48AM
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Here's a detailed review of the good and the bad regarding the Wasp and the Gong Plus:



colas
3924 posts
1 Jul 2020 2:17PM
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On the Gong, the review is a bit strange, as lists as defects what are actually design choices. Plus it is very disturbing to have a review done of products by a competitor, who doesn't even takes the elementary step to clearly state his conflicts of interest.
For instance, as I stated before in www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Stand-Up-Paddle/Foiling/7m-gong-as-first-wing-too-big-?page=1#2585654

On the wings, the entry level sail, the "Plus" is not exactly the v1, it is an evolution specifically designed for beginners, or easy rides, in the same "ecological niche"
- as light as possible (no windows, usable without battens)
- soft feeling, not tiring, spilling power in gusts (kind of auto-regulating power), usable for hours without a harness.
- with a shape making it want to return to the horizontal, so very forgiving. The other models then tend to seek the more efficient vertical position, but the rider must be experienced enough to control it.
In a nutshell, the Plus tries to have has much "autopiloting" features as possible, but this means a good rider will get more performance with the other models. A bit like an automatic transmission on a car.

So basically, the reviewer was desiring the features of a "plus" but bought a "pulse", even though the differences were clearly stated and then criticized the wing for his own bad choice of program. Weird. It would be like buying a high aspect foil and complaining it is not easy to use. Or buying a wave board and complaining it sucks in downwinds. Whether the Gong Pulse is better adapted to its stated program than other brands, I cannot judge. But at least reviews should evaluate gear for the program they are designed for.
The review is still useful however, if you keep in mind that defects in his view can be advantages for others (weight vs durability, ease vs performance, ...)And for completeness, with my Gong ambassador hat on, I translate here what the Gong designer has to say about this review. I do not wing, so I cannot judge who is right, but it is better to have both point of views.

- Gong wings are the only ones to have a double layer on the leading edge, for reliability
- More handles make people life easier
- Handles are anchored in reinforcements that go around the strut, unlike some brands, for reliability.
- Patrice claims that the weight of the wing is not a factor in the ease of handling in the upper wind range,but the shape. And the wing is designed to go vertical, it is a wing designed for expert riders who want the maximum power to go fast and do jumps, meaning straps are mandatory in this program. If you ride strapless and harnessless, (note: like the reviewer) these features are not what you want.
- Patrice says that he sees constantly these kind of pseudo-objective "reviews" by competitors: say some neutral things at the start to give an appearance of neutrality, then disguise negative advertisement as truths.
- Note Patrice has a whole topic "La Kermesse" opened in the Gong forum 10 years ago (sorry cant link) listing these weird practices of the water sports businesses.

colas
3924 posts
1 Jul 2020 2:42PM
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I would add a personal note: I think that the videos where designers explain in detail what they wanted to achieve with their design and experimented, and on what compromise they settled for are much more interesting (and honest). For instance, this video by BRM presenting their future wings: Even if you do not plan to buy one, I found it very enlightening, and I am grateful for all the designers that take the time to explain their reasoning. Even if I am a Gong ambassador, and BRM clearly made choices different from what Gong currently does. The same with Bert Sunova videos, or Jimmy Lewis ones, etc...

In a nutshell: I found Self-reviews more honest and informative.

(Disclaimer: I have no affiliation with BRM.)

Dommo49
64 posts
1 Jul 2020 3:00PM
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Hi Colas
Gunnar's reviews are always very matter of fact, so i can see why you think it came across as negative, but if you watch his other review of the Ozone Wasp it's also in the same matter of fact style, pointing out what he sees as flaws as well as the good aspects in design, build and handling. I agree that overall it comes across as a 'bad' review, and having owned and used a Gong wing plus (7m) for months, for me personally there's a lot of positives about their wings that I think should have been highlighted (and i realise there's a difference between my Wing plus and the Pulse he reviewed), but let's not forget that that was HIS opinion, and we can't dispute that. Although I don't know Gunnar personally I do know that he has been in the industry for a long time and is well respected, so presumably that wouldn't be the case if he slated various brands unfairly. I don't think its fair on him (or anyone) for automatically assuming he is giving a bad review deliberately due to being a competitor. As for being a competitor of Gong - as Gong sell direct and don't utilise distributors you could argue that everyone who is in the industry (apart from Gong employees) are competitors of Gong.
I should also say that I have read a lot of your posts and contributions on this forum and respect what you say, and acknowledge that you always state your affiliations which I agree is a good thing. For what it's worth I am about to do a review of all the wings I've used - completely from the amateur point of view, just in case anyone finds it useful. I will be sure to point out that and that I have no affiliations with any companies whatsoever and that it will just be my opinions about how I found each wing. It's the type of thing I would have l found interesting when I was first getting into the sport.

Dommo49
64 posts
1 Jul 2020 3:12PM
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Select to expand quote
colas said..
I would add a personal note: I think that the videos where designers explain in detail what they wanted to achieve with their design and experimented, and on what compromise they settled for are much more interesting (and honest). For instance, this video by BRM presenting their future wings: Even if you do not plan to buy one, I found it very enlightening, and I am grateful for all the designers that take the time to explain their reasoning. Even if I am a Gong ambassador, and BRM clearly made choices different from what Gong currently does. The same with Bert Sunova videos, or Jimmy Lewis ones, etc...

In a nutshell: I found Self-reviews more honest and informative.

(Disclaimer: I have no affiliation with BRM.)



I agree this type of explanation is very useful and honest. HOWEVER, its also very useful to have a review by others, especially comparing the performance with other brands. The designers will obviously all be biased, so we have to rely on others giving their 'opinions'. It's always useful to share

colas
3924 posts
1 Jul 2020 3:46PM
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Dommo49 said..
its also very useful to have a review by others, especially comparing the performance with other brands.






Yes, but for this to be useful, the judgment criterion have to be stated. For instance, judging a wing on its performance without a harness and without using straps. Otherwise, it can mislead people if they are not looking for the same things as the reviewer.
And for magazine reviews, you would be suprized of how many testers have a very low level of practice, especially in hyped sports. At the peak of the WIndsurfing craze in France, reviews in prominent mags were even done by people who didn't know how to windsurf.

And sorry, but I trust less the opinion of "Average Joe" praising a gear he just bought, as [1] he doesn't have the level of expertise and "surf culture" to analyze things [2] he didnt test a lot of other gear, and often at a different levels of his progression(*) [3] he unconsciously praises his gear, as otherwise he would look like a fool, and we all try unconsciously to avoid losing face.

I prefer watching a biased opinion, but explaining the reasoning and his background, rather than a pseudo-objective review by somebody hiding his own biases or motivation. For instance, I am always reading Patrice Guenole advice with interest, even if I disagree with him (e.g. he hated the C-Drive, I liked them), because he gives context: what he was expecting in a fin, how he use them, what he disliked in which precise cases. And I kept using an liking C-Drive fins :-) And of course hearing diverging but argumented opinions is the best.

Sorry for this bit of rant, not aimed at you, but the "He is not an expert so he he right" tune can gets on my nerves, especially in these orange moronic times :-)

(*) I have seen people hate a board, resell it in frustration, and then re-buy the exact same model 6 months later, the same board becoming their favorite as they had progressed a bit.

northy1
226 posts
1 Jul 2020 6:00PM
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i too thought it was a little "sharp" when i first watched the Gong review (we are not used to tests being at all negative...in Windsurf magazine they love all the materials and you have to try and interpret the wording maybe)...but i agree with Dommo - he is the same with the Ozone as well. He is just very direct. And its his opinion...but he does seem to know a lot about these Wings. He bought the wings with his own money. He is also testing SS and Fone and Duotone i think...and the 9m gong.

Where i live is Rural and there is no one that wing foils...indeed i am the only Windfoiler. So internet reviews are all i can go on...i cannot see the material before i buy in person. I try and speak with shops of course but they will have a natural interest in selling brand(s) X of course. I agree with Colas though that everyone praises their own equiptment...i am guilty of this. Having sais this....Dommo - keen to hear any insights of the Wasp Vs latest Echo if you can share them.

Filow
181 posts
1 Jul 2020 6:03PM
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Here is an user feedback. I buy my gear and I have no love or anything for any brand.

i bought three gong wings. The classic one last year, witch was great. And this year a 6m superpower and a 4m plus.

this is good stuff no doubt about it and the price is really nice that help a lot of people get into the sport for sure and that is really important. Congrats to Gong.

Regarding the wings I always found myself selling them. To complex too big.

i have a takoon one and an f-one and I love the simplicity of thoses wings.

i have a 20+ years of a lot of water sport background and I believe in the end you are looking for simplicity. In a wing I am looking for a ratio of power and and light wing.

Gong wing are powerful but I didn t like the battens and they are quite hard to deflate.

In the end all theses choices will change for each one the best gear is the one you feel right with.

Filow
181 posts
1 Jul 2020 6:06PM
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We should built a feed where people working or related to a brand present themselves. It can help the average joe user I am here to have a clearer view of what is disguised advertise from user opinion.

bigtone667
NSW, 1231 posts
1 Jul 2020 8:31PM
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He raised short coming in both wings. He praised both wings.

They are good reviews.... no brand bashing.

Having owned and ridden Gong V1 and WASP V1, they were both good reviews.

hilly
WA, 5370 posts
1 Jul 2020 7:10PM
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bigtone667 said..
He raised short coming in both wings. He praised both wings.

They are good reviews.... no brand bashing.

Having owned and ridden Gong V1 and WASP V1, they were both good reviews.


Totally agree. A few precious egos here

Fishdude
86 posts
1 Jul 2020 8:48PM
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It looks like quite a few more reviews to come. IIRC Ensis, Echo, Gong 9m, Takoon, F-one, Slingshot I think he said Airush also. I'm looking forward to seeing all of them.

I like the fact he includes information that manufacturers intentionally (or not) leave out like the weight of the wings. For my marginal quality wind area knowing the weight of the larger size wings is of value.

dejavu
156 posts
1 Jul 2020 8:52PM
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I was impressed with both reviews -- they certainly seemed unbiased since he had both positive and negative things to say about both wings. Since he is sponsored by Ozone I was surprised about how critical he was of the Wasp wing -- it didn't seem to me he pulled any punches regarding either wing.

If he does reviews of other wings please post them here so we have easy access to them.

SolentFoiler
13 posts
1 Jul 2020 9:07PM
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hilly said..

bigtone667 said..
He raised short coming in both wings. He praised both wings.

They are good reviews.... no brand bashing.

Having owned and ridden Gong V1 and WASP V1, they were both good reviews.



Totally agree. A few precious egos here


Maybe - but I can understand Colas' frustration. I was planning on doing a quick Plus vs Pulse review as there didn't seem to be anything out there, but perhaps my thunder's been stolen now. Anyway, when I first got the Pulses (to replace my Plus Ltd wings) I thought I'd made a mistake - the power delivery/balance and how they handled made them hard to like off the bat. It wasn't until I used a harness with them that it suddenly made a lot more sense and now I understand what that wing is about, I much prefer it to the Plus but it's not perfect, and I agreed with a couple of Gunnar's criticisms. You could say that using a harness dramatically changes the usage all wings but knowing the wing Gunnar reviewed I did feel he perhaps didn't articulate his comments about the top end very well, or certainly could have elaborated more. It didn't seem consistent that a wing with 'best on the market' low end power was lacking top end performance without being able to describe how. To me, once plugged into the Pulse with a harness the only thing stopping me going faster is my testicular fortitude, and that's on a 1250 foil. But hey, what do I know! It's not a wing I'm going to grow out of quickly, for what I'm using it for anyway.

SolentFoiler
13 posts
1 Jul 2020 9:10PM
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dejavu said..
I was impressed with both reviews -- they certainly seemed unbiased since he had both positive and negative things to say about both wings. Since he is sponsored by Ozone I was surprised about how critical he was of the Wasp wing -- it didn't seem to me he pulled any punches regarding either wing.

If he does reviews of other wings please post them here so we have easy access to them.


He did say mention that it was the WASP V1 a couple of times, which I thought was a bit odd as there isn't a V2, unless he knows something we don't? An imminent release perhaps?

colas
3924 posts
1 Jul 2020 10:15PM
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dejavu said..
Since he is sponsored by Ozone I was surprised about how critical he was of the Wasp wing


He was.
On his FB he said "After 5 years with Ozone it was time for a fresh start. From now on I will be riding North Kiteboarding and Mystic equipment."
Another missing context, I guess...

juandesooka
353 posts
1 Jul 2020 11:10PM
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SolentFoiler said..

dejavu said..
I was impressed with both reviews -- they certainly seemed unbiased since he had both positive and negative things to say about both wings. Since he is sponsored by Ozone I was surprised about how critical he was of the Wasp wing -- it didn't seem to me he pulled any punches regarding either wing.

If he does reviews of other wings please post them here so we have easy access to them.



He did say mention that it was the WASP V1 a couple of times, which I thought was a bit odd as there isn't a V2, unless he knows something we don't? An imminent release perhaps?


V1 is printed right on the wing...part of the name. V2 supposed to be coming out in October

SolentFoiler
13 posts
1 Jul 2020 11:17PM
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juandesooka said..

SolentFoiler said..


dejavu said..
I was impressed with both reviews -- they certainly seemed unbiased since he had both positive and negative things to say about both wings. Since he is sponsored by Ozone I was surprised about how critical he was of the Wasp wing -- it didn't seem to me he pulled any punches regarding either wing.

If he does reviews of other wings please post them here so we have easy access to them.




He did say mention that it was the WASP V1 a couple of times, which I thought was a bit odd as there isn't a V2, unless he knows something we don't? An imminent release perhaps?



V1 is printed right on the wing...part of the name. V2 supposed to be coming out in October


Ha! Fair enough!

FoilColorado
59 posts
1 Jul 2020 11:52PM
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Perhaps the thread should be retitled - review is for Gong Pulse, not Plus.

Recently received my Pulse 7m

Here are some photos comparing it to Naish Wingsurfer V1 4m.


















As you can see, there is plenty of knuckle clearance on the surf handle, not sure what the reviewer was talking about there.

construction is robust, with weight trade off. When the breeze fills it, the weight is not felt.

i prefer the heavy duty construction, as longevity is important to me and these things take a beating!

stitching actually seems better on the Gong.

FoilColorado
59 posts
1 Jul 2020 11:56PM
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Also - the reviewer mentions the "spar" pockets.

I believe the proper terminology is Batten and Batten Pocket. This is a place where there could be improved reinforcement, but I just plan on putting blunt tips on the battens like most battens have, problem solved.

Dommo49
64 posts
2 Jul 2020 12:09AM
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northy1 said..
i too thought it was a little "sharp" when i first watched the Gong review (we are not used to tests being at all negative...in Windsurf magazine they love all the materials and you have to try and interpret the wording maybe)...but i agree with Dommo - he is the same with the Ozone as well. He is just very direct. And its his opinion...but he does seem to know a lot about these Wings. He bought the wings with his own money. He is also testing SS and Fone and Duotone i think...and the 9m gong.

Where i live is Rural and there is no one that wing foils...indeed i am the only Windfoiler. So internet reviews are all i can go on...i cannot see the material before i buy in person. I try and speak with shops of course but they will have a natural interest in selling brand(s) X of course. I agree with Colas though that everyone praises their own equiptment...i am guilty of this. Having sais this....Dommo - keen to hear any insights of the Wasp Vs latest Echo if you can share them.


Sorry northy1, the Ozone Wasp isn't a wing that I've used so I can't comment on it in any way. I've used the 7m Gong Wing plus, the Duotone Echo 7m, the Naish s25 5.3m & the Takuma wing ride 4m (V1) extensively, and the f-one 5m 9 (used only once so this won't feature much). The 7m Echo just clicked for me so I've ordered a 5m Echo and I was going to wait for it to arrive and use it a decent amount before doing a review so I could compare the two 7m wings and the two 5m wings, but I've just been told that the 5m Edge is out of stock and could be months before I get one so I will probably go ahead and do a vid of my experiences and opinions on those wings I have used and later on will do a separate vid to compare the Naish 5.3m and Echo 5m.

colas
3924 posts
2 Jul 2020 12:53AM
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FoilColorado said..
As you can see, there is plenty of knuckle clearance on the surf handle, not sure what the reviewer was talking about there.


I think it was more related to the position of the handle. He was stating that the way he holds the handle, his hand kind of "wraps around" the leading edge and thus chafe on it. I suspect that the Gong team tend to hold the wing at shoulder+ height, and thus is more comfortable with a handle on the lower end, whereas Gunnar holds it lower (hip height?), and thus prefer a handle more in the middle. I am not saying that one is better than the other.
This is just a guess by looking at:



One can also see how Beryl bottom turns with the Wing really vertical, touching the board.

bigtone667
NSW, 1231 posts
2 Jul 2020 6:12AM
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colas said..

FoilColorado said..
As you can see, there is plenty of knuckle clearance on the surf handle, not sure what the reviewer was talking about there.



I think it was more related to the position of the handle. He was stating that the way he holds the handle, his hand kind of "wraps around" the leading edge and thus chafe on it. I suspect that the Gong team tend to hold the wing at shoulder+ height, and thus is more comfortable with a handle on the lower end, whereas Gunnar holds it lower (hip height?), and thus prefer a handle more in the middle. I am not saying that one is better than the other.
This is just a guess by looking at:



One can also see how Beryl bottom turns with the Wing really vertical, touching the board.


Another great video.

Shlogger
88 posts
4 Jul 2020 10:57PM
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dejavu said..
Here's a detailed review of the good and the bad regarding the Wasp and the Gong Plus:





I've found his review to be such a breath of fresh air compared to the usual infomercials out there. I love the detail, that hopefully all the Manufacture's will pick up on and incorporate.

I love my Fone V1 but after 6 months I have my own short list of changes I would make.



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"Wind Wing Reviews -- Ozone Wasp & Gong Plus" started by dejavu