Forums > Stand Up Paddle   Board Talk & Reviews

Airing grievances on Seabreeze

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Created by 913pepper 9 months ago, 2 Mar 2017
913pepper
40 posts
2 Mar 2017 12:38AM
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Over the last few years I have really enjoyed and appreciated the time members have put into posting their experiences with different boards and technology coming to the market. It's also interesting reading with posts from people new to the sport alongside those who obviously have years of experience, and perspective from those associated with different brands is also interesting. Seabreeze is just a great resource to keep in touch with the sport, especially here in NZ where the opportunity to demo boards isn't readily available.

As a result I have tried a number of brands and for different reasons enjoyed them all. Every now and then there has been the odd post from members concerned about construction and durability. That's a tough topic. As consumers we expect value for money especially as good boards aren't cheap. We do however want equipment as lightweight as possible to use in often unpredictable conditions with other water users.

I work in an industry where it is common for consumers to air grievances publicly to help settle disputes. That approach doesn't and can't work. I respect that distributor in the current dispute is not responding and can't respond to the posts on this forum. Interestingly I had not really considered Sunova as a brand however am now in the process of picking up a Speeed.

Please keep your thoughts coming in respect of your experiences and knowledge of boards and equipment. It is a great forum for that.

KDog
26 posts
2 Mar 2017 1:08AM
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I have been following the seabreez forums for a few years and very seldom post but this subject has made me go to the keyboard. Those threads have gone to far just not a good look.Best kept between customer and dealer or manufacturer.

Brenno
QLD, 524 posts
2 Mar 2017 8:23AM
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Select to expand quote
913pepper said..
Over the last few years I have really enjoyed and appreciated the time members have put into posting their experiences with different boards and technology coming to the market. It's also interesting reading with posts from people new to the sport alongside those who obviously have years of experience, and perspective from those associated with different brands is also interesting. Seabreeze is just a great resource to keep in touch with the sport, especially here in NZ where the opportunity to demo boards isn't readily available.

As a result I have tried a number of brands and for different reasons enjoyed them all. Every now and then there has been the odd post from members concerned about construction and durability. That's a tough topic. As consumers we expect value for money especially as good boards aren't cheap. We do however want equipment as lightweight as possible to use in often unpredictable conditions with other water users.

I work in an industry where it is common for consumers to air grievances publicly to help settle disputes. That approach doesn't and can't work. I respect that distributor in the current dispute is not responding and can't respond to the posts on this forum. Interestingly I had not really considered Sunova as a brand however am now in the process of picking up a Speeed.

Please keep your thoughts coming in respect of your experiences and knowledge of boards and equipment. It is a great forum for that.


I agree with bad mouthing a bloke by name on a public forum. It's just sad.
But what if you take an issue to a supplier/manufacturer, and their reason for your disappointment in a product is simply "yeah, it was a bad batch".
This has happened to me before, and I ended up trading the board from the "bad batch", and losing money. I didn't want to sell it privately, and have it becoming some other poor bugger's problem.
Isn't it common courtesy to alert fellow SUPpers, even if it is a "tough topic"?

dools111
VIC, 33 posts
2 Mar 2017 9:28AM
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hey pepper, ignoring the boring stuff (ie bitching about brands etc which seems to be taking over the forums), interested to hear what speed you are looking at - I have owned a 8 8 speed, but have moved to a 8 4 minion like you have/had (I also have a 7 10 minion great for clean conditions, a bit of a challenge other times). the speeed was a great board but very different, didn't suit the mushy waves I usually surf, great on clean strong waves though...; you'll love the thin rails on the speed, and the carving turns it excels at. would love to do something that mixes the best of both these boards, a bit shorter and wider than the 8 8 speed, keep the thin rails but lose the domed deck possibly S rails (my next project is to talk to bert and tino about a custom speed along those lines).... good luck!

colas
2228 posts
2 Mar 2017 3:59PM
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Brenno said..
Isn't it common courtesy to alert fellow SUPpers, even if it is a "tough topic"?


Of course, as is creating a topic for it. This seems entirely legitimate.

What is worrisome is to pollute all the threads with uninformative (a simple "X sucks") drivel. In a way, this could be seen as abusing (taking hostage) the seabreeze community for a financial gain (here being refunded by the brand). Similar in a way to pimping a brand for a financial incentive.

Also, I have seen the effect this behavior has on board makers and resellers, in some cases leading to blacklisting the whiner and banning them to ever buy any of their products again. They are also human beings.

colas
2228 posts
2 Mar 2017 4:04PM
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dools111 said..
didn't suit the mushy waves I usually surf, great on clean strong waves though...


I found out that the period of the surfed waves is quite important to choose a board. Slow waves are magnified by using very short (and hence wide) boards with boxy rails, because their planing speed is lower, so you can be planing in slow, short-period waves, and thus be able to carve real turns. But on long period waves, even small, width can become a handful fast.

Stev0
345 posts
2 Mar 2017 4:45PM
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I hope GizzieNZ reads this thread carefully and reflects on his random insults and vitriol. Hijacking multiple threads with repetitive statements about a grievance is frankly immature at best. It must be hard for the distributor not to get publicly involved in the spat.
I have previously had a major issue with a well respected brand (not same brand as GizzieNZ's issue) and had to go through the hassle of two warranty jobs but it got resolved eventually by the shop as the distributor dropped the ball. The point is that I didn't blurt all this over the forum at the time when it was all getting very messy and expensive. Blurting out a lot of bull**** can damage a brand but also can lead to a loss of personal credibility on the forum.

LastSupper
40 posts
2 Mar 2017 6:10PM
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Well said stevo !!! That bloke needs to get off the macca,s

Brenno
QLD, 524 posts
2 Mar 2017 8:35PM
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Stev0 said..
I hope GizzieNZ reads this thread carefully and reflects on his random insults and vitriol. Hijacking multiple threads with repetitive statements about a grievance is frankly immature at best. It must be hard for the distributor not to get publicly involved in the spat.
I have previously had a major issue with a well respected brand (not same brand as GizzieNZ's issue) and had to go through the hassle of two warranty jobs but it got resolved eventually by the shop as the distributor dropped the ball. The point is that I didn't blurt all this over the forum at the time when it was all getting very messy and expensive. Blurting out a lot of bull**** can damage a brand but also can lead to a loss of personal credibility on the forum.


So true. The distributor is either blind, or biting his tongue so hard it's fit to burst.
Or maybe he's just busy with his IT mates and legal team.
Grizzly should maybe fill in his spare time with a bit of scaffolding.
Step. Away. From. The. Keyboard.
Bro.

baddog
250 posts
3 Mar 2017 1:11AM
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913pepper said..
I work in an industry where it is common for consumers to air grievances publicly to help settle disputes. That approach doesn't and can't work.

Please keep your thoughts coming in respect of your experiences and knowledge of boards and equipment. It is a great forum for that.




Oddly, as much as I might agree with you about airing 'dirty laundry in public', you clearly have an agenda which is no better or noble then the poster you are referring to, I'm assuming the Sunova Unhappiness thread. Although I say I wouldn't, I can understand the frustration and the impulse to do it. And there's nothing that says they can't or shouldn't unless the site admins decides to curtain this kind of activity.

I don't like these kind of posts either, but the bottom-line is, they do work for some people. Saying they don't and can't work is clearly out of your purview. Maybe this type a behavior is ignored in your "industry" (which is?), but right or wrong, everyone is concerned (or should be) with their social media / blog / forum presence and it at least makes them take another look and often a resolution that wasn't offered in the first place.

Slab
788 posts
3 Mar 2017 1:24AM
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Is it not the role of Admin to manage these things?

baddog
250 posts
3 Mar 2017 1:29AM
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Slab said..
Is it not the role of Admin to manage these things?


If they prefer to, but nothing says they have to.

burleighlocal
255 posts
3 Mar 2017 3:14AM
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Select to expand quote
baddog said..

913pepper said..
I work in an industry where it is common for consumers to air grievances publicly to help settle disputes. That approach doesn't and can't work.

Please keep your thoughts coming in respect of your experiences and knowledge of boards and equipment. It is a great forum for that.





Oddly, as much as I might agree with you about airing 'dirty laundry in public', you clearly have an agenda which is no better or noble then the poster you are referring to, I'm assuming the Sunova Unhappiness thread. Although I say I wouldn't, I can understand the frustration and the impulse to do it. And there's nothing that says they can't or shouldn't unless the site admins decides to curtain this kind of activity.

I don't like these kind of posts either, but the bottom-line is, they do work for some people. Saying they don't and can't work is clearly out of your purview. Maybe this type a behavior is ignored in your "industry" (which is?), but right or wrong, everyone is concerned (or should be) with their social media / blog / forum presence and it at least makes them take another look and often a resolution that wasn't offered in the first place.


well said
..Sunova has been more than happy to bask in the good, hell someone even said Sunova replaced their delaminating second hand board.a claim the fanboy's were also happy to high 5 and post how great Sunova was to do this. And now we seem to have victim blaming against Gizzie.when all he wants is his new Sunova board that is delaminating to be replaced.

Slab
788 posts
3 Mar 2017 4:35AM
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Select to expand quote
baddog said..

Slab said..
Is it not the role of Admin to manage these things?



If they prefer to, but nothing says they have to.


I guess if Sunova took out ads it would be a diff story? I don't think they site sponsor or do ads?

Bowerboy
NSW, 62 posts
3 Mar 2017 11:04AM
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I think airing appropriate complaints on social media is an important way for the little guy to have an impact. It empowers people to have some control over the corporate and government spin machines. As a person with no involvement with Sunova I take the positive comments with the negative. Overall my impression is that sunova is a pretty good outfit with good products, however like any retailer it can make mistakes, or the customer can make mistakes.

I think it would be wrong to censor complaints from this website, and it would make the website just a load of promotional BS. We are all big people and able to see when a complainer is going to far.

Bowerboy
NSW, 62 posts
3 Mar 2017 11:08AM
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Select to expand quote
913pepper said..
Over the last few years I have really enjoyed and appreciated the time members have put into posting their experiences with different boards and technology coming to the market. It's also interesting reading with posts from people new to the sport alongside those who obviously have years of experience, and perspective from those associated with different brands is also interesting. Seabreeze is just a great resource to keep in touch with the sport, especially here in NZ where the opportunity to demo boards isn't readily available.

As a result I have tried a number of brands and for different reasons enjoyed them all. Every now and then there has been the odd post from members concerned about construction and durability. That's a tough topic. As consumers we expect value for money especially as good boards aren't cheap. We do however want equipment as lightweight as possible to use in often unpredictable conditions with other water users.

I work in an industry where it is common for consumers to air grievances publicly to help settle disputes. That approach doesn't and can't work. I respect that distributor in the current dispute is not responding and can't respond to the posts on this forum. Interestingly I had not really considered Sunova as a brand however am now in the process of picking up a Speeed.

Please keep your thoughts coming in respect of your experiences and knowledge of boards and equipment. It is a great forum for that.


Social media has certainly worked for me. I bought a brand new epic v10 surfski and found a two foot delam on my first outing. The local distributor would not replace the ski which was incredible. I posted my experiences and the Epic head office intervened and were very upfront that it was clearly a manufacturing fault and forced the distributor to replace it. Otherwise I was screwed or had to go legal.

Seabreeze
WA, 3482 posts
3 Mar 2017 9:46AM
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Slab said..
Is it not the role of Admin to manage these things?


Ok, so I just stumbled across what's been going on, and see that a particular user has pretty muched spammed every topic about a particular brand with their individual complaint.

We have a clear policy about complaints, which has been in place for 15+ years:
www.seabreeze.com.au/Members/Help/ForumRules.aspx#h40

I/we mods were not aware what was going on, and since finding out, action has been taken.

We need your help - sorry, just like the police don't see every single traffic infringement, we can't read every single post in every single forum.

If you see something that you reckon is wrecking the forum vibe, you need to click that little flag at the top right of the post and let us know.

If you don't let us know, then we can likely miss it ... there are 40 individual forums.

Seabreeze
WA, 3482 posts
3 Mar 2017 9:55AM
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Slab said..

I guess if Sunova took out ads it would be a diff story? I don't think they site sponsor or do ads?


Good to see the conspiracy train of thought is still alive and well.

Seabreeze has been working with every brand since the day SUP arrived. Brands come, brands go.

This year is 20 years online for Seabreeze, and I'd suggest that we'd not be around at all without aiming for fair and even treatment of everybody and every brand.

However, like I say above, we can't read every post by every body, and welcome help, if you can point out any bushfires.

Enjoy .. Laurie

Seabreeze
WA, 3482 posts
3 Mar 2017 9:58AM
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Here's the policy, by the way:

Complaints about a business/associations


When this occurs, the poster is usually quite fired up and emotional. Often the customer is now out to cause as much damage as possible to the business with the mission that they are "fully justified" (their words) and "simply stating facts" (their words) about the business/association.

This may be the case .. or not. There are many sides to any story.

The point is that the Seabreeze forums are not the appropriate place to resolve the issue. Go to the appropriate legal/government authority and do it there.

Choose not to, and end up in hot water. As soon as you flame a business, you'll usually get supporters of the business come out in defence and question your behaviour and motives.

People interested in the discussion will seek more information from you. It soon descends into an argument containing many and varied versions of the truth and everybody goes home unhappy. It has never ended well for anybody.

The business is damaged, the poster now has a stigma in the forum community (and now can't deal with many shops because the shops know what will happen if they cross this customer - their business will get dragged through the mud.) And of course, there's also the situation when the poster does not really have a complaint, but is simply a competitor or naive associate of a business who thinks the way to get more business is to degrade the competition.

A special note: This applies (and has been applied) to any business, not just businesses that sponsor the site.

Slab
788 posts
3 Mar 2017 2:54PM
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Good one Laurie....I hadn't actually noticed the top right icons.

Smash1
NSW, 684 posts
3 Mar 2017 6:18PM
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Things seem to have gone quiet....

Lucyloo
VIC, 113 posts
3 Mar 2017 7:01PM
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Thanks Laurie good call

Comrad
SA, 70 posts
3 Mar 2017 6:59PM
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I think getting maim and then death threats from GizzieNZ and then getting the thread deleted and ip blocked by seabreeze was unfair.

I got some legal help, managed to track down the person who threatened me and warned them online. Next thing I am deleted.

I have learned much with good advice that I paid for.
Red Thumb

adamart
QLD, 55 posts
5 Mar 2017 9:49AM
Thumbs Up

As an owner of a small business (Picture Framing ....not SUP related) I've been following these posts with interest but haven't commented as yet. While I completely agree if there is a legitimate problem with a product that someone has sold then it should be fixed as soon as possible..... that's just good business and more importantly the right thing to do.

With the explosion of Social Media and Forums such as this (and others) the old rule that a customer with a bad experience will tell 10 other people has become that a whole community of people can know within a matter of hours.

While this can be very effective for the customer getting their issue resolved the problem for the business is that the issue becomes like a runaway freight train and there is normally nothing they can do to stop it. For a business there is no good that can come from responding to claims (no matter how much they might want to) because a retort is only the click of a keyboard away.

Last year we had a customer bring back an artwork we had framed for them almost 2 years prior because they no longer like the frame and wanted to have it changed free of charge.... citing that was not the frame they selected. Long story short it turned out that they had painted their walls and it no longer matched the colour scheme of the house. We politely declined to do so and the customer proceeded to post up on Facebook how unhappy she was with our service..... leaving out some very key factors (ie the time and the fact she had painted her walls)

After speaking to a lawyer friend we ended up changing the frame for her free of charge because as he put it "you don't throw the poo back at the monkeys" and whatever you do not comment on her posts.

Social Media is a necessary evil for businesses, its a cheap and effective way to communicate quickly and easily with their potential customers but it can also be a nightmare when things go wrong.... and lets face it ...nobody is perfect.

I don't have any association with either party.... I just love to SUP..... its my way of getting some "me" time. However, I think people forget sometimes that businesses are run by people too and at the end of the day we are all human and we all make mistakes.

Smash1
NSW, 684 posts
5 Mar 2017 10:08AM
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Select to expand quote
adamart said..
As an owner of a small business (Picture Framing ....not SUP related) I've been following these posts with interest but haven't commented as yet. While I completely agree if there is a legitimate problem with a product that someone has sold then it should be fixed as soon as possible..... that's just good business and more importantly the right thing to do.

With the explosion of Social Media and Forums such as this (and others) the old rule that a customer with a bad experience will tell 10 other people has become that a whole community of people can know within a matter of hours.

While this can be very effective for the customer getting their issue resolved the problem for the business is that the issue becomes like a runaway freight train and there is normally nothing they can do to stop it. For a business there is no good that can come from responding to claims (no matter how much they might want to) because a retort is only the click of a keyboard away.

Last year we had a customer bring back an artwork we had framed for them almost 2 years prior because they no longer like the frame and wanted to have it changed free of charge.... citing that was not the frame they selected. Long story short it turned out that they had painted their walls and it no longer matched the colour scheme of the house. We politely declined to do so and the customer proceeded to post up on Facebook how unhappy she was with our service..... leaving out some very key factors (ie the time and the fact she had painted her walls)

After speaking to a lawyer friend we ended up changing the frame for her free of charge because as he put it "you don't throw the poo back at the monkeys" and whatever you do not comment on her posts.

Social Media is a necessary evil for businesses, its a cheap and effective way to communicate quickly and easily with their potential customers but it can also be a nightmare when things go wrong.... and lets face it ...nobody is perfect.

I don't have any association with either party.... I just love to SUP..... its my way of getting some "me" time. However, I think people forget sometimes that businesses are run by people too and at the end of the day we are all human and we all make mistakes.


Hmmmm.... and after you changed the frame at no charge - did she write nice things about you and withdraw her nasty comments?

adamart
QLD, 55 posts
5 Mar 2017 10:59AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Smash1 said..

adamart said..
As an owner of a small business (Picture Framing ....not SUP related) I've been following these posts with interest but haven't commented as yet. While I completely agree if there is a legitimate problem with a product that someone has sold then it should be fixed as soon as possible..... that's just good business and more importantly the right thing to do.

With the explosion of Social Media and Forums such as this (and others) the old rule that a customer with a bad experience will tell 10 other people has become that a whole community of people can know within a matter of hours.

While this can be very effective for the customer getting their issue resolved the problem for the business is that the issue becomes like a runaway freight train and there is normally nothing they can do to stop it. For a business there is no good that can come from responding to claims (no matter how much they might want to) because a retort is only the click of a keyboard away.

Last year we had a customer bring back an artwork we had framed for them almost 2 years prior because they no longer like the frame and wanted to have it changed free of charge.... citing that was not the frame they selected. Long story short it turned out that they had painted their walls and it no longer matched the colour scheme of the house. We politely declined to do so and the customer proceeded to post up on Facebook how unhappy she was with our service..... leaving out some very key factors (ie the time and the fact she had painted her walls)

After speaking to a lawyer friend we ended up changing the frame for her free of charge because as he put it "you don't throw the poo back at the monkeys" and whatever you do not comment on her posts.

Social Media is a necessary evil for businesses, its a cheap and effective way to communicate quickly and easily with their potential customers but it can also be a nightmare when things go wrong.... and lets face it ...nobody is perfect.

I don't have any association with either party.... I just love to SUP..... its my way of getting some "me" time. However, I think people forget sometimes that businesses are run by people too and at the end of the day we are all human and we all make mistakes.



Hmmmm.... and after you changed the frame at no charge - did she write nice things about you and withdraw her nasty comments?


Nope.... but that is her hang up not mine. We did however take post a picture of the re frame ..... people will make their own judgement.

colas
2228 posts
5 Mar 2017 4:06PM
Thumbs Up

"you don't throw the poo back at the monkeys"

Now that's gold! This should be in good place in forums rules everywhere!

micksmith
VIC, 1125 posts
6 Mar 2017 5:49AM
Thumbs Up

soooo, don't throw poo at monkeys and don't paint ya board, is that what I'm hearing?

yt04
QLD, 334 posts
19 Mar 2017 5:37PM
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Select to expand quote
913pepper said..
Over the last few years I have really enjoyed and appreciated the time members have put into posting their experiences with different boards and technology coming to the market. It's also interesting reading with posts from people new to the sport alongside those who obviously have years of experience, and perspective from those associated with different brands is also interesting. Seabreeze is just a great resource to keep in touch with the sport, especially here in NZ where the opportunity to demo boards isn't readily available.

As a result I have tried a number of brands and for different reasons enjoyed them all. Every now and then there has been the odd post from members concerned about construction and durability. That's a tough topic. As consumers we expect value for money especially as good boards aren't cheap. We do however want equipment as lightweight as possible to use in often unpredictable conditions with other water users.

I work in an industry where it is common for consumers to air grievances publicly to help settle disputes. That approach doesn't and can't work. I respect that distributor in the current dispute is not responding and can't respond to the posts on this forum. Interestingly I had not really considered Sunova as a brand however am now in the process of picking up a Speeed.

Please keep your thoughts coming in respect of your experiences and knowledge of boards and equipment. It is a great forum for that.


Well said mate as I've been off the breeze for awhile as I was getting annoyed about the bitchiness and wasn't aware of the blowup.
I dont ride that brand, but for years have been sticking up for the boards I ride against the haters who always posted their rubbish.
In today's day of social media it's just too easy to log on or create a fake member and rant away with their crap causing irreversible damage to a companies reputation.
Just be an adult and make a call or go in person and discuss you're concerns, is it really that hard??
Obviously is for some.
Can we please keep the good vibes going for other companies too!!

supthecreek
1278 posts
19 Mar 2017 7:53PM
Thumbs Up

From the "Wonder whatever happened?" department:

Just after the Gizzeled fella was permanently re-routed to the Standupzone.....
he got his replacement board from Sunova.

xurfxup
NSW, 101 posts
20 Mar 2017 6:27AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
supthecreek said..
From the "Wonder whatever happened?" department:

Just after the Gizzeled fella was permanently re-routed to the Standupzone.....
he got his replacement board from Sunova.




So. They did what they said they were going to do from the start?
Thanks STC.



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"Airing grievances on Seabreeze" started by 913pepper