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Anyone unhappy with Vanguard/Minion style shapes?

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Created by Scott79 > 9 months ago, 13 Apr 2015
Scott79
QLD, 209 posts
13 Apr 2015 10:55PM
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Just curious..... There is currently a lot of interest and overwhelmingly positive feedback on these shapes, has anyone made the change from a more 'traditional' shape to one of these shapes and regretted the decision?

Not targeting any brands, and not looking for it to be a comparison between Brand X and Brand Y, I am just interested to see if there are any negatives to swapping across.

Thanks,
Scott.

Kami
1335 posts
13 Apr 2015 9:16PM
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It's not a choice of board, it's like a matter of surfing style and mood as standard shape would be like minuet dance and Minion's shape just a rock and roll.
No way back to me
Just stay pointed nose for the biggest days.

RRK
61 posts
14 Apr 2015 8:37AM
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I just bought a V-box. The surfing in smaller beach break I mostly do is fantastic on it. For a similar style of surfing I would need double the wave size with my other (normal style) board. The wider tail keeps the speed up so you can surf more aggressive without sinking the tail/loosing all your speed.
Have not tried it in bigger stuff yet. Can't wait! To answer the question, no I don't see myself go back any time soon.

cheers

Jacksboards
VIC, 130 posts
14 Apr 2015 11:46AM
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Yes, I have gone back to the traditional shaped boards and a 9' semi alternative shape.

Personally I found the cons outweighed the pro's on the Vanguard style shape and was glad to see my board sold on.

Buying alternative design boards before trying them is very courageous, demo-ing is the way to go, no demo no sale.

I have posted a thread ' More Vision Please ' in the general discussion page on this forum that I am hoping will have a performance SUP surfing clip posted on it soon of the Vanguard design ripping consecutive waves, forehand and backhand.

Happy board riding whatever your surf craft

Jack



supgman
NSW, 158 posts
15 Apr 2015 8:44AM
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I'm with Jacksboards on this one. I've got a 7'3" custom Gulliver box SUP & a 7'4" JP Pro traditional shape. Hands down my JP surfs much more like a short board & IMO handles the more hollow & big stuff better. Admit told the JP is much harder to manage (way more unstable). I should really have an 80 or so litre box SUP to compare it with the JP. Heading to Samoa in a couple of months & I'll be taking both boards however the go to board will be the JP when the deuce is on.

Scott79
QLD, 209 posts
15 Apr 2015 7:11PM
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Interesting, thanks guys.
I am with you on it Jack - I think I would want to demo before buying. Conditions where I am are mostly small anyway, so it sounds like it may still be a worthwhile consideration.

Kami
1335 posts
15 Apr 2015 8:08PM
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Sure Scott, needs to demo before buying. Just mind that it take a whole surfing season to demo boards and more speaking about those extreme shapes.
Coming in from last session on 6'5" <28" 85 litres to my 77kg built last year, i still learnt things from she

LogeiaLad
QLD, 89 posts
16 Apr 2015 1:00PM
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Just back from riding mine in 1' to 2' max. Nose rides/head dips. Keep telling myself that I am 70 not 17 and not riding a log! They are fun. I agree with Kami "rock and roll".

Brenno
QLD, 667 posts
16 Apr 2015 3:29PM
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Hey Scott79.
Totally agree with Kami. I love my minion on the right day. It allows a big fat bastard to enjoy that short board feel.
I'll always head for a larger traditional shape for bigger and messier surf, and if i want to just kick back I go for the 10' and over long board shape.
I will always have an "ironing board" (as one of my prone surfing mates called it the other day) in my quiver now.

Scott79
QLD, 209 posts
16 Apr 2015 10:34PM
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Thanks again guys.

Logia - that pic you recently loaded into the gallery is probably similar conditions to what I see, and smaller, I assume minion style would be ideal in that size?

Brenno - what sort of size day do you leave the minion n the cupboard and take something else? No simple rule I know, but how big does it have to be before you start thinking about it - head high or smaller??

Thanks,
Scott.

Opinionator
NSW, 12 posts
17 Apr 2015 7:27AM
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Love and Hate. Thats what I came away with after my demo of the JP SLATE 7'4 28.

First the Love; on the wave it is great, fast, responsive, it accelerates after takeoff and picks up waves easily. In smooth small surf this board would be the best thing ever.

Now for the hate; I can stand up on and surf in the ****tiest on shore conditions and still have some fun and as I am time poor and dont have the luxury of being too picky about conditions I would surf in less than perfect conditions most of the time.

Having said that I took the JP out for 2 sessions in reasonable conditions not much wind a few lumps and bumps on a beach break that requires getting back out through the white water. Pretty standard stuff. Well this part of the session is a nightmare on the JP and unfortunately destroys the on wave experience ,the effort and struggle required to get back out is just too much and once you do get back out you cant stand relaxed waiting for the next wave because you are constantly battling to stand up. This board cut my usual 2-3 hr session to 1 hour and cut down the amount of waves I would normally get in the same time by half.

If you have access to glassy 2-3 foot perfect waves on a regular basis then this board is a BUY for sure if you can afford its $2500 price tag. If not this board is a definite NO WAY.

In my opinion the perfect length of a SUP is around 9'0 it is long enough that it paddles straight and glides well. Is stable and comfortable to stand on and easily paddle back out for more. This length is also easy to throw around on the wave if the shape is right.

If the Vanguard shape can work on a larger board I would be very interested.

Kami
1335 posts
17 Apr 2015 7:17AM
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Select to expand quote
Opinionator said..

If the Vanguard shape can work on a larger board I would be very interested.



IMO Vangard have been designed to do surfing within a shortboard attitude specially to get front knee bent forward to reentry or snap it ( or attempting it ). On a longer board even looking like Vangard you won't do that and keep on riding from tail or center
I reckon those first Vangard models from different brands still have a bit of extra confort to be ridable for the new customers.
I better like staying 1 hour challenging myself in the curl rather than owning many waves without fear of loss which is the annoying or hate part of the 9' standard SUP: too easy going and no wave challenging .

webbo100
NSW, 58 posts
17 Apr 2015 10:22AM
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i have just had a demo of the Minion 7.10 !!!!!!!!
Wow wow wow, absolutely loved it so amazing on a wave, best surf sup i have ever tried.
you do need to find the right spot to stand on, when you do so stable for a short board.
ordered mine then an there, so much fun
surfed in glassy 3 foot beach breaks and wind blown chop, loved it
demo if you can, simon is so good to talk too, will blow you away
just get the right one for your ability and skill level
cheers mark.

JacobMatan
WA, 431 posts
17 Apr 2015 12:24PM
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I am definitely keen to have a go on one of these shapes and I think the design concept has a lot of merit. From what i can tell from the various threads is that these do provide a lot of extra stability for the dimensions but they do not perform miracles as such. I am definitely in the camp of wanting to have a sup that paddles well gets in super early and has a lot of glide as opposed to something that I can barely catch waves on but is a rocket once on the wave.

What I think we will begin to see is these shapes merging with the more traditional sup shapes and sizes. I could imagine a lot of guys on 9' and 10' 30"+ shapes getting into 8' and 8'6" vanguard style boards. If you take the wider noses the straighter rails and especially the radical bottom contours and apply them in a way that is both accessible and boosts performance then these could become the main shapes used by everyday sup surfers. At the moment the shape I am most excited about is the starboard hyper nut it deviates a lot from the original vanguard shape and that is what i think is needed to make these shapes work for sups.

colas
3078 posts
17 Apr 2015 2:39PM
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Select to expand quote
Opinionator said..
Well this part of the session is a nightmare on the JP


I guess you just found out what are the drawback of a ShortSUP, whatever its shape: its slow paddling speed. It can take quite a lot of sessions to get used to it. After some time you realize that the main issue is actually mastering the row and pitch during acceleration: on a 9'0" if you see a set coming in, you can just paddle as hard as you can. With a 7' SUP, you need to accelerate progressively or you will spin in place, so you cannot as easily escape whitewater or find a weaker portion to punch through.

After some time you get used to it. But it will never be as comfortable as a 9'. That's why you have quivers: I have a 8'4" in my quiver for the days I don't want to struggle.

Brenno
QLD, 667 posts
17 Apr 2015 5:09PM
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Brenno - what sort of size day do you leave the minion n the cupboard and take something else? No simple rule I know, but how big does it have to be before you start thinking about it - head high or smaller??

Hey Scott79,
I guess whilst I'm still learning the in's and out's of the minion, I cut it off at about head high. This is mostly beacuse the bigger swell here is more often than not wind generated, so there is lumpy chop to deal with as well.
I am slowly working my way up because it hasn't let me down yet, and it's so much fun on a wave.
Hanging out for winter, less wind and hopefully some ground swell to really put it through it's paces.

Rossall
WA, 498 posts
17 Apr 2015 4:08PM
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I think the litmus test here on Seabreeze is the amount of Vanguard style boards you see in the secondhand section. I can only remember seeing three or four over the past few months and only one Minion. This must be a good sign.

phil

robbo1111
NSW, 493 posts
17 Apr 2015 6:33PM
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Select to expand quote


After some time you get used to it. But it will never be as comfortable as a 9'. That's why you have quivers: I have a 8'4" in my quiver for the days I don't want to struggle.




Exactly... I got rid of a 126L 8'6 and went to a 95L 7' minion. It was a struggle in the bumpy stuff but great when it's smooth. So I then picked up a 109L prowave for the bigger, bumpy days. Now I can get out whenever I want. The Prowave is a bit easier paddling out in bigger surf simply because it's faster and it's awesome dropping into a bigger wave. The minion is much more fun in the small stuff and off the top. I spent $1400 in total and have everything I need now....although I still check the buy & sell for that next bargain

Scott79
QLD, 209 posts
17 Apr 2015 8:25PM
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Select to expand quote
Rossall said..
I think the litmus test here on Seabreeze is the amount of Vanguard style boards you see in the secondhand section. I can only remember seeing three or four over the past few months and only one Minion. This must be a good sign.

phil



There is probably some truth in that Phil, but what sort of a percentage would they make up of new purchases? i would guess 1 or 2% tops. Maybe in 12 months when the larger companies are selling a few more it stands to reason we will see more turned over.

Kami
1335 posts
17 Apr 2015 8:59PM
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Select to expand quote
Scott79 said..
Rossall said..
I think the litmus test here on Seabreeze is the amount of Vanguard style boards you see in the secondhand section. I can only remember seeing three or four over the past few months and only one Minion. This must be a good sign.

phil



There is probably some truth in that Phil, but what sort of a percentage would they make up of new purchases? i would guess 1 or 2% tops. Maybe in 12 months when the larger companies are selling a few more it stands to reason we will see more turned over.


Turn over might come from ex-windsurfer oriented to SUP rather than Surfer oriented to SUP

Short SUP and Minion/Vangard are closer from short boarder as traditional SUP closer of sailboard

7' 27" 85 liters to match my local barrels







bobajob
QLD, 1297 posts
18 Apr 2015 10:25AM
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Select to expand quote
robbo1111 said..






After some time you get used to it. But it will never be as comfortable as a 9'. That's why you have quivers: I have a 8'4" in my quiver for the days I don't want to struggle.








Exactly... I got rid of a 126L 8'6 and went to a 95L 7' minion. It was a struggle in the bumpy stuff but great when it's smooth. So I then picked up a 109L prowave for the bigger, bumpy days. Now I can get out whenever I want. The Prowave is a bit easier paddling out in bigger surf simply because it's faster and it's awesome dropping into a bigger wave. The minion is much more fun in the small stuff and off the top. I spent $1400 in total and have everything I need now....although I still check the buy & sell for that next bargain





$1400 for both? Wow that sounds like a sensational score!

highvolume
TAS, 160 posts
18 Apr 2015 1:03PM
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Hi all,

I had been riding my vanguard style as a quad with pretty tightly clustered fins, stubbornly insisting that I didn't want to be over finned.

Over easter I added a fifth centre fin which is half way between a nubster and a full sized fin and have found it paddles quite a bit better and feels better in a bottom turn. The extra fin seems to give some extra feel before you set it on a rail. I cant really find a drawback to this setup. I will be sticking to the 5 fin combo from now on.

Cheers chris

LogeiaLad
QLD, 89 posts
18 Apr 2015 2:25PM
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Scott that was in Darwin on a 9' McT but is about the size of wave I usually ride on my Minion. I am old! Posted about riding in small stuff as normally reviews are about how big the waves were that were ridden.

Supmaori
614 posts
18 Apr 2015 12:59PM
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I have a minion 7'8 and it's my go to board now.I'm all for these and like someone mentioned there's no way back for me now. Still have a 8'10 fanatic prowave but this has remained dry.
As far as size surf, I've surf overhead to double overhead on a couple of sets on my minion in glassy conditions and it handled it no problem.
I pulled the trigger without demo but did seek a lot of good advice on here.
Chur

Kami
1335 posts
18 Apr 2015 2:41PM
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By the last session i had with my 6'5" 27,75" 85 liters on a glassy 2/3' foot barreling walls. What did happen after a crancking backside bottom turn in a forward body stance, did happen is the front part of the board start to swing while pulling in the barrel. I was on my back hand with paddle on my backside in a forward stance with paddle laying and trimming further back as i can to stabilize as much as i can.
As i can remenber , in a last swung the front outside corner rail bite and i fall over and around with the lip.
Have to do this same move again to see if there is some limits to the rectangular nose shape

colas
3078 posts
18 Apr 2015 3:35PM
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Select to expand quote
Kami said..
As i can remenber , in a last swung the front outside corner rail bite and i fall over and around with the lip.


Ah, happened also quite often on my 6'10" Simmons, even with a semi-pointed nose.

My solution has been to put the fins as far back as possible (so my rear foot could be as far back as possible) and use C-Drive that can release excess pressure via their thin tip. With keels the inside tail rail was "foiling up" and the outside front rail would catch.

So try to use fins with a small head area, as far back as possible.

The position is on the board on the left:

Patto00169
NSW, 3 posts
18 Apr 2015 6:02PM
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I am 6.3 and 105kgs, I demoed the minion and v box at the start of the year. Loved the minion so bought a 8.0 (134l), it has become my go to board. The jp 9.2 ( 134l) has not been in the water and will be getting sold. Can't rave enough about the minion. Simon at deep was very helpful and the board is great. They are so fast and turn on a dime. It does take a couple of surf to get used to.Wow what a board. the only problem in Sydney is everyone wants to talk to you about it. Love the minions!!

JacobMatan
WA, 431 posts
18 Apr 2015 8:12PM
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Patto I am the exact same dimensions as you and currently on the JP 9'2 !! How does the minion compare as far as stability, tracking and how easy it is to catch waves (i find the JP so easy to get into waves and gets in super early)

JacobMatan
WA, 431 posts
18 Apr 2015 8:14PM
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Love the look of that board in the middle colas How much!!!
on second thoughts I'll take them all (I wish)

Patto00169
NSW, 3 posts
18 Apr 2015 11:07PM
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Hi jacobmatan, the minion is more stable then the JP, it's easier to surf on the wave as it is shorter. It doesn't track as good as the JP as it is shorter. Getting waves is fine, I had no problems with the deferences. They are different types of boards. Go the minion you would love it.

breakbad
8 posts
18 Apr 2015 10:18PM
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Select to expand quote
Opinionator said..


In my opinion the perfect length of a SUP is around 9'0 it is long enough that it paddles straight and glides well. Is stable and comfortable to stand on and easily paddle back out for more. This length is also easy to throw around on the wave if the shape is right.

If the Vanguard shape can work on a larger board I would be very interested.



+1

I have a 9 traditional and 8x30 custom tomo. My SB 9x33 turns very well, is very stable, has descent glide. The stability of the tomo is comparable, and impressive for being 25L less and narrower. Paddling out on the 8x30 I can definitely feel the glide is not there, lots of pushing water around, and the sweet spot is much smaller. But it moves, does well in chop, I get surf, and it's amazing. I'm gonna get a 10' board for the ugly days, only because.



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"Anyone unhappy with Vanguard/Minion style shapes?" started by Scott79