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Bought a Jackson Close 5 years ago, finally took it out on the weekend

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Created by mediumbilly 26 days ago, 21 Apr 2021
mediumbilly
20 posts
21 Apr 2021 5:32PM
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How the **** do you get up and then stay up on these low volume boards?

More spicifically,
Does anyone know when is the easiest time to go from laying down to jumping up and paddling? Could it be just after paddling over a wave on the down motion or in between waves?
Also, does anyone know the best stance for these boards, or some sort of fundamental principal involved with weight to stay up?
Really struggling with side to side weight but have been on a jp widebody (32inch wide) for years.
My weight currently is 86kgs. Ive lost 7kgs in four weeks and plan on getting to 78 in about 2 months. (All just to ride this board). The board is 8 by 28 by 4. Surfboard shape with pulled in nose and square tail.

The most i have managed to paddle on this thing in yesterdays choppy northerly was about 50 meters. In the river with waves but not breaking i managed the whole crossing, then caught a little mini wave at the mini beach, then went out to the more protected beach just before dark and it was tickets out the back. Way too spooky on my own for Tweed during shark season. Thanks for any advice in advance. Im going short cause my neck is ****ed and paddling with the paddle/a little bit of arm paddle is the best my body will hold, complete prone just about being out of the question.

slsurf
57 posts
22 Apr 2021 2:03AM
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It may be that for you a less stable board will only work in clean non-windy conditions, but this can improve with a lot of practice. On my smaller boards I end up having do more prone paddling getting out and inbetween sets to fine tune my position, I can't really imagine riding a small board without this ability. I found this video best for technique on getting to your feet:



You can search for colas posts on stance, but in general you need to make your stance narrower and more of a wider surf stance the smaller the board.

As far as timing aim for the smoothest patch of water you can find and get the paddle in right away as your are standing as shown in vid.

BigZ
98 posts
22 Apr 2021 3:16AM
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The process is as follows:

week 1: fall, fall, fall, fall, ..., fall
week 2: fall, fall, stand, fall, ..., fall
week 3: fall, stand, fall, stand, ..., stand
week 100: stand, stand, fall, stand, ..., stand

Tested through a controlled double blind study :)

Emeboy
NSW, 336 posts
22 Apr 2021 7:35AM
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Hahaahaa classic Big Z....

For timing, I do tend to time my 'Pop' when cresting a wave or bump.... probably nothing more than a convenient way to time standing up it works for me....

Souwester
WA, 1189 posts
22 Apr 2021 6:53AM
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Colas's posts on stances regarding smaller boards are epic and spot on. Keep at it til you know if it is worth it for you.

I persisted with a smaller board for a few months and finally realised to surf more and catch more waves a bigger SUP was the go, just need to find the sweet spot for your size

Once on the wave it was amazing, but unless right conditions it was pretty tough.

russh
SA, 2978 posts
22 Apr 2021 1:10PM
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slsurf said..
It may be that for you a less stable board will only work in clean non-windy conditions, but this can improve with a lot of practice. On my smaller boards I end up having do more prone paddling getting out and inbetween sets to fine tune my position, I can't really imagine riding a small board without this ability. I found this video best for technique on getting to your feet:


You can search for colas posts on stance, but in general you need to make your stance narrower and more of a wider surf stance the smaller the board.

As far as timing aim for the smoothest patch of water you can find and get the paddle in right away as your are standing as shown in vid.



FFS - what a stupid example of trying this in a small pool - I'd be putting on a helmet if you're doing that in a pool with concrete sides - no better way to end up with a skull # and brain bleed.

micksmith
VIC, 1501 posts
22 Apr 2021 2:08PM
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Mate just keep at it, practice on flat calm water for a bit you'll be right if you persevere. I'm 59y 80kg 177cm and ride an 8'x28 and it's fine, in fact I'd like a smaller board for clean days.

supthecreek
2195 posts
23 Apr 2021 2:51AM
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Yup.... it is amazing how our bodies are able to adapt to more challenging balance needs.
Every "fall down" session is gold, for fine tuning the "small twitch" muscles that improve stability.

I tell people that my exercise plan is climbing back on my board after I fall down

I used to take really small boards out on horrifying days, just to max the challenge.
My goal was never to stay standing... it was simply "Boot Camp" for balance training.
When my small board came, it was eezy peezy

I find now, at 73 that I can pretty much paddle anything on flatwater, if it's at least 5 liters over my weight

Yes... I use the "Drop Up" method.
Right at the crest of the wave, I stand as the board drops down the back of the wave.... using the lift from going up the face, and the drop as you go over the top, to provide the lift, instead of fighting gravity..... minimal effort and I'm ready ready to go!

How to see your future:
I began SUP on an 11'2 x 36" at 230 L.... fell 100 times in pure glass, my 1st day
Surfed a calm session yesterday, on an 8'3 126 L board at 102 kgs (1.24 Guild Factor)
at least half the board was underwater at all times.... no drama at all.





Macaha
QLD, 21433 posts
23 Apr 2021 8:46PM
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Theres only one Jackson and anybody thinking they can mirror are kidding themselves.

Yeah I know it hurts.

mediumbilly
20 posts
24 Apr 2021 10:42AM
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BigZ said..
The process is as follows:

week 1: fall, fall, fall, fall, ..., fall
week 2: fall, fall, stand, fall, ..., fall
week 3: fall, stand, fall, stand, ..., stand
week 100: stand, stand, fall, stand, ..., stand

Tested through a controlled double blind study :)





3rd attempt.
Fall, fall, fall, stand up for 60 meters as I paddle with the wind on my back and catch a knee high wave, fall, fall, fall, fall fall, stay up for 60 meters going across the line up again and fall off once i paddle for a wave, fall, fall, put the paddle in the car and prone surf the board for an hour.

Finding the sweet spot a little easier towards the end of the surf. Feet need to be really close to each other, and the middle. I kept paddling into chopping conditions and tried to catch a wave where a creek was gushing into the line up and falling off. Might try to stay away from that area next time.

mediumbilly
20 posts
24 Apr 2021 10:57AM
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slsurf said..
It may be that for you a less stable board will only work in clean non-windy conditions, but this can improve with a lot of practice. On my smaller boards I end up having do more prone paddling getting out and inbetween sets to fine tune my position, I can't really imagine riding a small board without this ability. I found this video best for technique on getting to your feet:


You can search for colas posts on stance, but in general you need to make your stance narrower and more of a wider surf stance the smaller the board.

As far as timing aim for the smoothest patch of water you can find and get the paddle in right away as your are standing as shown in vid.


Do you ever prone paddle into wave and is there a trick to it?

mediumbilly
20 posts
24 Apr 2021 11:10AM
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Macaha said..
Theres only one Jackson and anybody thinking they can



I have no aspirations of surfing like jackson close, in case i had given you that impression. I surf the way a van drives. Bought the board 2nd hand a few years back. My goal with this board is to drop down a face without having my foot on the back track pad clinging to dear life like on the jp widebody, and also be able to smack a white wash section 2/3 foot.

wazza66
QLD, 524 posts
24 Apr 2021 4:35PM
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I recently have a new Deep 8'0 x 28.5 Jackson Close model. I bought it mainly for glassier, better wave days (so it sits on the rack a fair amount of the time). I'm 87kgs and the board is 110 litres.

You are not alone when it come to your balance issues. It takes time on the water ,right from practicing on flat water doing 360's, sinking the tail ,changing your stance and generally getting a feel for the board and its mannerisms. I stand on mine in a surfing stance and do sit down a few times between lulls if its bit choppy.

The trade off is worth the extra practice and hundreds of falls as once it starts to click and you can surf and enjoy the potential of this particular shape. The market for this performance shape and number of surfers who can make it look comfortable is relatively small.

Keep practicing and you won't regret it once you can stand comfortably on the board. It does require good leg strength and a lot of use of the paddle to assist you in the water. Remember to relax and if you keep moving around out the back whilst waiting it seems to help. The paddle is your best friend also.

If this doesn't help then "sometimes ones ambition doesn't always match ones ability "

Keep persevering

mediumbilly
20 posts
24 Apr 2021 3:02PM
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wazza66 said..
I recently have a new Deep 8'0 x 28.5 Jackson Close model. I bought it mainly for glassier, better wave days (so it sits on the rack a fair amount of the time). I'm 87kgs and the board is 110 litres.

You are not alone when it come to your balance issues. It takes time on the water ,right from practicing on flat water doing 360's, sinking the tail ,changing your stance and generally getting a feel for the board and its mannerisms. I stand on mine in a surfing stance and do sit down a few times between lulls if its bit choppy.

The trade off is worth the extra practice and hundreds of falls as once it starts to click and you can surf and enjoy the potential of this particular shape. The market for this performance shape and number of surfers who can make it look comfortable is relatively small.

Keep practicing and you won't regret it once you can stand comfortably on the board. It does require good leg strength and a lot of use of the paddle to assist you in the water. Remember to relax and if you keep moving around out the back whilst waiting it seems to help. The paddle is your best friend also.

If this doesn't help then "sometimes ones ambition doesn't always match ones ability "

Keep persevering


Thanks for the advice. Yeah I'll keep at it. Ambition is above and beyond my ability, and weight haha.
I i busted my ear drum in december and still went surfing on it by managing to fall in once, sometimes not at all when on the widebody but this is something different. Getting up at the right time seems to be the trick, once im in the right spot I can go quite well. Back foot close to the rail is a killer i am discovering. I'm still on track with the qeight loss too. Down to 85 from 93 4 weeks back. Going to try to get to 78 again.

slsurf
57 posts
24 Apr 2021 11:51PM
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"Do you ever prone paddle into wave and is there a trick to it?"

I only do this if I'm not standing and a wave comes at me i can't resist. I always prone paddle with the paddle in the water parallel to the board blade up, gripping the handle. For me this has many advantages, but might not be good on wider boards. I saw the pros doing this on a video of sunset beach contest and have done it ever since. Anyway if you do catch a wave prone the paddle is in your hand and you can just ride as normal with the paddle. But I always prefer to catch waves standing and be standing and paddling as much as possible. It is only on some days and some parts of the break that force me to prone paddle or sit between waves.

Macaha
QLD, 21433 posts
25 Apr 2021 12:52PM
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mediumbilly said..

Macaha said..
Theres only one Jackson and anybody thinking they can




I have no aspirations of surfing like jackson close, in case i had given you that impression. I surf the way a van drives. Bought the board 2nd hand a few years back. My goal with this board is to drop down a face without having my foot on the back track pad clinging to dear life like on the jp widebody, and also be able to smack a white wash section 2/3 foot.


My apologies I was being a smart arse, Jackson doesn't prone those boards, unfortunately he is injured and not sup'ing atm he rips on anything. Is your board a 10 footer? They do look nice.

mediumbilly
20 posts
25 Apr 2021 3:42PM
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slsurf said..


"Do you ever prone paddle into wave and is there a trick to it?"

I only do this if I'm not standing and a wave comes at me i can't resist. I always prone paddle with the paddle in the water parallel to the board blade up, gripping the handle. For me this has many advantages, but might not be good on wider boards. I saw the pros doing this on a video of sunset beach contest and have done it ever since. Anyway if you do catch a wave prone the paddle is in your hand and you can just ride as normal with the paddle. But I always prefer to catch waves standing and be standing and paddling as much as possible. It is only on some days and some parts of the break that force me to prone paddle or sit between waves.




Thanks for the response. I'll give this a go. How do you hold the paddle in your hand when doing this? Like all fingers wrapped arpund the paddle and can you still get up a bit of glide doing it?

I took it out again today and caught one wave on it. Rest of the time was tickets. I ran back home and grabbed the widebody then went back out. I was out in the surf on the widebody saying 'i'll never cheat on you ever again i promise' when i was gliding around the line up on it.

slsurf
57 posts
25 Apr 2021 10:57PM
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Yeah my hand is holding the handle almost normal, just with thumb and fingers protruding more, kind of little more relaxed grip try it and will be obvious. Most of the resistance for this prone paddling comes from the hand/handle and you generate less power then the other side. As I said before paddle is angled up in the water so it doesn't dig in.

Good idea to switch between boards in a session since you don't have an inbetween option. At a certain point more time falling on the smaller board during same session doesn't really help.

mediumbilly
20 posts
26 Apr 2021 2:52PM
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slsurf said..
Yeah my hand is holding the handle almost normal, just with thumb and fingers protruding more, kind of little more relaxed grip try it and will be obvious. Most of the resistance for this prone paddling comes from the hand/handle and you generate less power then the other side. As I said before paddle is angled up in the water so it doesn't dig in.

Good idea to switch between boards in a session since you don't have an inbetween option. At a certain point more time falling on the smaller board during same session doesn't really help.


Thanks for the response. Appreciate it.

Seajuice
NSW, 749 posts
26 Apr 2021 10:03PM
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I've got a Jimmy Lewis Super Tech 7ft 11" 27 wide 94 litres. I weigh around 78 to 80 kilos.
When I getvon flat water I can paddle all day without falling off. Ok. Maybe once.
As the chop gets progressively worse, so does balance. So thats why I tell people not to try out boards on flat water!
My balance has improved much more by forcing myself to stand surf stance. I had to do this to learn to foil board. And so glad I did.
I would say to you to practice surf stance on your WideBody. I have the same board. Feels like a Rolls Royce. Immensely comfortable after using smaller.
What I believe by going more surf stance is that you are actually widening your board by increasing the distance from the sides of your feet to the rails. So if you exaggerate this the nose & tail becomes the width and the rails become the front & back. So more resistance to falling sideways, less resistance falling front or back. If you get what I mean.
Over time when standing onto the board after a fall my right back foot, (I'm right handed & surf normal stance), goes to the exact spot on the deck every time. I believe my front foot does also but I look at & feel my back foot as I'm standing. This is now embedded in my mind so it's automatic.
So yeah. Surf stance & keeping low to improve your centre of balance is the key. It helped me.
But yes. When it gets choppy I still fall off heaps. And will not catch many waves.
So I would only take my small board out in as close to glassy conditions as possible.

Souwester
WA, 1189 posts
27 Apr 2021 7:59AM
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The shorter boards aslo need such a different approach to catching the wave - I found I needed to be really close to the peak and do a little sprint onto the wave, as opposed to the longer paddle in on a larger stable board.

Found myself trying to paddle into a wave from too far away and the longer I was in sprint mode without the speed of the wave the more chance I had of falling off - just my experience though.

Gboots
NSW, 1149 posts
27 Apr 2021 11:50AM
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I am around 65kg and I took out my 7'7 Flow (original) in light offshore winds yesterday . 83L board .
First time out on this for a year . Seriously first 10 mins I must have been the laughing stock of all the proners. Literally could not stand on this thing . Eventually i got hang of it and caught 5 - 6 decent waves but not sure that I got any extra fun out if it compared to my 711 94L Speeed . I should probably sell her but she is so beautiful .
On the flats no problem to paddle but in the surf if there is any bump or cross chop i am constantly concentrating on not falling in particularly when padding into wave . I actually keep feet close to centre and stay as low as possible . My only hope. And no big paddle strokes or I lose balance . A few short sharp paddles . A nightmare for 90% of the session really

colas
4188 posts
27 Apr 2021 2:09PM
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Gboots said..
And no big paddle strokes or I lose balance


Yes, the secret is to apply very gentle balance correction, you need to kind of "micro dose" your efforts. It seems impossible at first but the body kind of learn by itself if you just focus mentally on not over-compensating. That's what having your feet closer to the stringer does, it reduces the leverage you can apply on the board.

Very short (wide tailed) boards have huge benefits in small waves, and narrower low volume boards in hollow waves if you want to surf in the pocket. But otherwise (e.g nice sized open waves) there is not a lot of benefits in going too small.

Basically my quiver revolves around 4 boards:
- my daily driver: 8'1" x 29"3/4 x 120l performance shape (pointed nose + round tail) that I can use on anything and is comfortable for my 97kg (Gong Alley). I could well use it as my only board.
- same exact shape, but in a lower volume and width: 7'8" x 27"3/4 x 105l but twice as tiring as my 120l above. Fun in summer without the wetsuit weight, not worth it in winter except in the cleanest of conditions.
- a shorter wider one for VERY small waves (less than thigh high): 6'10" x 31" x 125l (Gong One)
- a shorter and lower volume board for small (less than shoulder high) but hollow waves: 7'3" x x 29"3/4 x 105l (Gong Fatal)

mediumbilly
20 posts
28 Apr 2021 4:58PM
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colas said..


Gboots said..
And no big paddle strokes or I lose balance




Yes, the secret is to apply very gentle balance correction, you need to kind of "micro dose" your efforts. It seems impossible at first but the body kind of learn by itself if you just focus mentally on not over-compensating. That's what having your feet closer to the stringer does, it reduces the leverage you can apply on the board.

Very short (wide tailed) boards have huge benefits in small waves, and narrower low volume boards in hollow waves if you want to surf in the pocket. But otherwise (e.g nice sized open waves) there is not a lot of benefits in going too small.

Basically my quiver revolves around 4 boards:
- my daily driver: 8'1" x 29"3/4 x 120l performance shape (pointed nose + round tail) that I can use on anything and is comfortable for my 97kg (Gong Alley). I could well use it as my only board.
- same exact shape, but in a lower volume and width: 7'8" x 27"3/4 x 105l but twice as tiring as my 120l above. Fun in summer without the wetsuit weight, not worth it in winter except in the cleanest of conditions.
- a shorter wider one for VERY small waves (less than thigh high): 6'10" x 31" x 125l (Gong One)
- a shorter and lower volume board for small (less than shoulder high) but hollow waves: 7'3" x x 29"3/4 x 105l (Gong Fatal)



Mate I'm scratching my head at how your pulling off those numbers. I've seen the videos and know its true but **** me. How?

mediumbilly
20 posts
29 Apr 2021 4:49PM
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Gboots said..
I am around 65kg and I took out my 7'7 Flow (original) in light offshore winds yesterday . 83L board .
First time out on this for a year . Seriously first 10 mins I must have been the laughing stock of all the proners. Literally could not stand on this thing . Eventually i got hang of it and caught 5 - 6 decent waves but not sure that I got any extra fun out if it compared to my 711 94L Speeed . I should probably sell her but she is so beautiful .
On the flats no problem to paddle but in the surf if there is any bump or cross chop i am constantly concentrating on not falling in particularly when padding into wave . I actually keep feet close to centre and stay as low as possible . My only hope. And no big paddle strokes or I lose balance . A few short sharp paddles . A nightmare for 90% of the session really


That bit where you said get as low as possible. I realised i wasnt bending my knees at all! Massive, massive help cheers for that. I tried it today at d bah but only acutally stood up twice and proned the rest of the surf cause of the crowd.

colas
4188 posts
29 Apr 2021 5:08PM
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mediumbilly said..
Mate I'm scratching my head at how your pulling off those numbers. I've seen the videos and know its true but **** me. How?



If you mean the low board dims, it is because:
- I have been SUPing on less than 7' boards for 10 years now
- I was SUPing in the Mediterranean sea, where most of the waves were less than 1' and 4s period. In these small waves, reduction in board length reaps immense benefits as traditional longboards just feel like unwieldy barges. Riders blessed with good conditions may not see the point of going shorter. (*)
- You have to force yourself to go out with shorter boards. They seem impossible at first, or at least not the trouble. So if you do not see what they can offer you (in the form of what the Gong shaper was doing with them in weak waves, as he lived in Corsica) you wont bother.
- I love glassy conditions. I'd rather do something else than trying to surf in chop. So I didn't need very stable boards.
- I was hooked on Gong boards that offered plenty of innovative shapes at very low prices, a huge incentive to try them all and build a big quiver
- I am short, so I can manage smaller lengths and widths than a taller person, even if I need volume due to my weight.
- I had always fantasized having a large surfboard quiver, but could not justify it with my little time on the water. SUPing, Internet surf forecast sites, and a good job where I could take my mornings off in short notice changed it, so indulged in a board buying frenzy...

(*) Here is my first video in these conditions in 2012: Note the flat front rocker on this 6'8" 125l and the thin front rails

mediumbilly
20 posts
30 Apr 2021 4:36AM
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colas said..

mediumbilly said..
Mate I'm scratching my head at how your pulling off those numbers. I've seen the videos and know its true but **** me. How?




If you mean the low board dims, it is because:
- I have been SUPing on less than 7' boards for 10 years now
- I was SUPing in the Mediterranean sea, where most of the waves were less than 1' and 4s period. In these small waves, reduction in board length reaps immense benefits as traditional longboards just feel like unwieldy barges. Riders blessed with good conditions may not see the point of going shorter. (*)
- You have to force yourself to go out with shorter boards. They seem impossible at first, or at least not the trouble. So if you do not see what they can offer you (in the form of what the Gong shaper was doing with them in weak waves, as he lived in Corsica) you wont bother.
- I love glassy conditions. I'd rather do something else than trying to surf in chop. So I didn't need very stable boards.
- I was hooked on Gong boards that offered plenty of innovative shapes at very low prices, a huge incentive to try them all and build a big quiver
- I am short, so I can manage smaller lengths and widths than a taller person, even if I need volume due to my weight.
- I had always fantasized having a large surfboard quiver, but could not justify it with my little time on the water. SUPing, Internet surf forecast sites, and a good job where I could take my mornings off in short notice changed it, so indulged in a board buying frenzy...

(*) Here is my first video in these conditions in 2012: Note the flat front rocker on this 6'8" 125l and the thin front rails


What do you do for work if you don't mind answering?

colas
4188 posts
30 Apr 2021 3:58PM
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mediumbilly said..
What do you do for work if you don't mind answering?


Software Engineer.

I ended up working for the internal tools (intranet) of a huge company, stayed in teams with cool managers, and I took care of never accepting jobs that would have required direct contact with customers, or working with people in a timezone at the east of me. I then never accepted any meeting in the morning, and worked part time (at 80%: I could have 2 free mornings in a week at will), plus we had 7 weeks of vacations in the year that I could take by half days = 70 mornings!

And... I am now retired since last month!

micksmith
VIC, 1501 posts
1 May 2021 9:15PM
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mediumbilly said..

Gboots said..
I am around 65kg and I took out my 7'7 Flow (original) in light offshore winds yesterday . 83L board .
First time out on this for a year . Seriously first 10 mins I must have been the laughing stock of all the proners. Literally could not stand on this thing . Eventually i got hang of it and caught 5 - 6 decent waves but not sure that I got any extra fun out if it compared to my 711 94L Speeed . I should probably sell her but she is so beautiful .
On the flats no problem to paddle but in the surf if there is any bump or cross chop i am constantly concentrating on not falling in particularly when padding into wave . I actually keep feet close to centre and stay as low as possible . My only hope. And no big paddle strokes or I lose balance . A few short sharp paddles . A nightmare for 90% of the session really



That bit where you said get as low as possible. I realised i wasnt bending my knees at all! Massive, massive help cheers for that. I tried it today at d bah but only acutally stood up twice and proned the rest of the surf cause of the crowd.


When you say you proned it, please don't tell me that was on your SUP. Recipe for disaster in a crowded lineup mate. And it just gives SUP a bad name.

mediumbilly
20 posts
3 May 2021 6:00PM
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micksmith said..


mediumbilly said..



Gboots said..
I am around 65kg and I took out my 7'7 Flow (original) in light offshore winds yesterday . 83L board .
First time out on this for a year . Seriously first 10 mins I must have been the laughing stock of all the proners. Literally could not stand on this thing . Eventually i got hang of it and caught 5 - 6 decent waves but not sure that I got any extra fun out if it compared to my 711 94L Speeed . I should probably sell her but she is so beautiful .
On the flats no problem to paddle but in the surf if there is any bump or cross chop i am constantly concentrating on not falling in particularly when padding into wave . I actually keep feet close to centre and stay as low as possible . My only hope. And no big paddle strokes or I lose balance . A few short sharp paddles . A nightmare for 90% of the session really





That bit where you said get as low as possible. I realised i wasnt bending my knees at all! Massive, massive help cheers for that. I tried it today at d bah but only acutally stood up twice and proned the rest of the surf cause of the crowd.




When you say you proned it, please don't tell me that was on your SUP. Recipe for disaster in a crowded lineup mate. And it just gives SUP a bad name.



Yeah just layed down. How does it give sup a bad name as opposed to a mal doing the same thing?

wazza66
QLD, 524 posts
3 May 2021 8:28PM
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What's wrong with lying down on short SUP?

I do it when the shorey is flogging me on the way out the back or I feel like seeing what the view is from ground level. Still jump up and catch all the waves I want.



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"Bought a Jackson Close 5 years ago, finally took it out on the weekend" started by mediumbilly