Forums > Stand Up Paddle General

Is my advantage really huge?

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Created by sup808 3 months ago, 4 Sep 2018
sup808
19 posts
4 Sep 2018 3:22AM
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There is a reef break in waikiki that I paddle surf at. Today a bunch of the locals was at the peak on their surfboards, and one said I really hate those paddle boards, and the group agreed and started talking about why they hate the paddles boards. It was 6am and I was the only paddle surfer. So from the shoulder where I was hanging out waiting my turn I paddled over to them and told them if I do anything you hate let me know and I will stop doing it. I am a smiley old grandpa, and am non confrontational by nature. They began to explain why they hate me. Well, they don't hate me specifically cause I follow the rules......They hate all of us that use that stand up paddle surf. period
The basic is argument is repeated. You guys catch every wave, you are dangerous cause you can't control your board this is a very shallow reef break and its dangerous for everyone. But mostly and repeatedly it was said cause you have such a big advantage you guys catch a wave paddle out catch a wave, and basically repeat, hogging the waves.
I know the rules, and I respect and follow them as best I can. I avoid the peak where they are.
Majority of those guys are long boarders .
My question is at 8'5 do I really have such a big advantage at catching waves over these long boarders?

FRP
184 posts
4 Sep 2018 4:07AM
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If they are good long boarders.....you have no advantage other than being able to see the waves coming. If they are average or worse your advantage I believe is significant. A good long boarder can prone paddle faster than I can paddle. Their board is longer and narrower than mine and usually they are half my age and a bit fitter. The marginal surfers that miss more than half the waves that they paddle for I can surf circles around and I use them to plan my turns.

Bob

micksmith
VIC, 1230 posts
4 Sep 2018 6:16AM
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No, but you're right its the same old argument, and now we will get the same replies.
" Don't surf where prones are", "sit down next to them and say hi", "don't catch too many waves", "call them in", "take your turn" blah blah blah..
Haters are haters that's it, "Surf etiquette" is all that's needed, I don't have any trouble and in fact in the 8 yrs I've surfed on a sup I can only recall twice that a prone has blown up for no reason.

sup808
19 posts
4 Sep 2018 5:52AM
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No, these guys have literally surfed these breaks their whole lives and don't miss waves first thing in the morning.
On a side note, no one has ever yelled at me or told me get out of the water. Frankly, Ive also run into those sup guys they hate, and I hate their behavior as well, and cringe when I see one of those huge rented sups heading toward me in the surf area.
My question was answered, thank you. I also did not think me and my board had any significant advantage over them. I agree with you haters gonna hate.

E T
QLD, 2286 posts
4 Sep 2018 9:12AM
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Bunch of moaning miserable farken wankers.

They exist everywhere all around the world.

In my opinion, SUP808, keep doing what you are doing, enjoy the experience and be polite and safe.

some of the points may be valid but they put everyone in the same basket.

Stay way from them and enjoy yourself.

ET.

Zeusman
NSW, 1212 posts
4 Sep 2018 9:29AM
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Which break out there is it?
If you're etiquette is as good as you say, then you really shouldn't have a problem. I've been out at breaks where one SUP guy is doing all the wrong things your mates mentioned and all it does is paint all of us SUP riders in the same light. On several occasions i've paddled over to said SUPwits and quietly pulled them into line.

Helmy
VIC, 640 posts
4 Sep 2018 10:31AM
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sup808,
I'd be interested to know what break it is - so I can avoid it.
Planning a trip there in January, and I'd be happy to avoid the breaks where the locals hang out / don't welcome tourists.

Agree that the beach hire boards are dangerous - my only other time there I moved away from Pops(?) as it was too crowded, and paddled further out and over towards the Sheraton /Hilton.

Still stayed away from the smaller crowd (on that board), but managed to find enough waves to keep me happy.

January visit will be a hire from Blue Planet.

Supmaori
605 posts
4 Sep 2018 10:30AM
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I surfed Waikiki last year on the all the breaks..usually twice or more a day...the reef break you mention may be Publics..closer to Diamond Head..its pretty shallow and i was usually the only SUP paddler on it for the 10 days i was there. Most chest high to head high waves.
I had the opposite experience...they local prone brothers and sisters were more than happy to share..i got a stack of waves but always followed the rules..from my observation -if you hold off and do not get amongst it you miss out..once they saw i could surf confidently they were all good with the sup and paddle ..lot of coin to go over there from NZ and not catch waves.
Being maori may have helped - share alot of the same customs , traditions and values ..aloha and aroha was received and given

Piros
QLD, 5281 posts
4 Sep 2018 1:44PM
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The break would be Queens ( to the left of the main beginner break canoes) and I bet none of those long boarders had leg ropes. The local crew do really sit on that break & very , very hard to enjoy a Sup surf there. Had multiple run in's regardless how respectful you are. Not defending them at all but I did see multiple Sup riders just blindly paddle in and blow it and this happens everyday around the clock as fresh newbies fly in . So they just light up straight away. It's such a cool wave it's a shame but plenty of others near by so I just moved on and came back when the bra's thinned out.

Probably alot more locals out there now after they have lost the beach boy jobs , a Californian company Dive Hawaii won the concession bid ....very very sore point.

cantSUPenough
VIC, 1650 posts
4 Sep 2018 11:26PM
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Back to your original point, I am always surprised to see long-boarders struggle on the same waves I can catch without too much hassle. Today was the same. Two long-boarders and me. The first guy was a dick who turned up his nose when I said g'day, but there was no other hassle or clashes - there were plenty of waves. But like so many other times, I saw them paddle for waves, and miss, on waves I am sure I would get (I am on a smallish board).

sup808
19 posts
5 Sep 2018 1:39AM
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If kai lenny was using a sup surf board would kai lenny catch more waves then kai lenny on a prone long board?
taking out the skill of the rider, does one board have a bigger advantage catching waves on a chest/head high day at waikiki beach? I know its a stupid point I am just very curious about this advantage.
100 percent agree with supmaori if you use proper etiquette and know how to ride your board you will get zero problems from anyone.
Dive oahu owner has had his boards and canoes vandalized and it escalated to his house mysteriously burning down with his daughter at home.I imagine that guy regrets winning that bid.

colas
2843 posts
5 Sep 2018 1:35PM
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In my experience, for taking waves:

SUP advantages:
- being able to better see the incoming waves and be mobile to actively go fetch them at their best takeoff place. This for me is the biggest advantage of SUPing by far, not the paddling speed. Longboards paddle faster.
- the ability to move your body weight around a lot with a big range of motion, even without moving your feet, during takeoff. It helps immensely to "pop" into the wave
- your whole body muscles are used for paddling. This means you can aplly more force, and paddle longer without tiring.

Prone boards advantages:
- you actually paddle faster on a longboard than a SUP
- much, much easier to manage wind, chop, water movements
- easier to go through waves .This is important when having to go through a broken wave to catch the following one, with a SUP you will wipe out on the first one and will not have enough time to get back standing properly for the next one
- easier to take off in breaking waves or in the foam, so you can claim the priority on SUPs by taking off inside of them.

So, for me, prone surfers have the advantage on crowded, well defined peaks. SUPs will shine on shifting peaks, where we can chase the peaks around. Different horses for different races.

Emeboy
NSW, 230 posts
5 Sep 2018 4:03PM
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I think you are spot on Colas...
Depending on the wave type, longboards and even short boards can have a distinct advantage. Narrow take off reef breaks where the waves jack up from deep water definitely suit prone boards especially when there is a bit of a crowd. Even the best SUP surfers would agree it is difficult to manoeuvre a SUP in crowded conditions...

On shifty peaks or where the wave has some time to form, the SUP advantage of being able to see and read the forming wave is definitely a huge advantage and I think this is where the prone surfers get the **s... It appears the SUP is buzzing all over the beach taking all the waves when in reality if there was no one there to begin with... the wave was never going to be ridden.

Perhaps Waikiki is somewhere in the middle? Defined breaks that can be seen and read from some distance away? So the SUP rider is basically in heaven... and must be even more focused on etiquette. Not sure as I have been there.... but will be at the end of the month!! Don't stir the locals up too much sup808... I am keen to get a few of my own waves while I am there!!

surfinJ
401 posts
5 Sep 2018 2:14PM
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I think that Colas lays it out pretty clear. If one of us is out by himself, or a proner alone, both at the same peeling peak with the same competence level - we will have a higher wave count. In a crowded lineup we just don't fit in and have to keep our advantage in check to somewhat fit in.

And sorry but the idea that ripping perfect behavior gets us accepted is naive. Maybe they are biting their tongue but there will almost always be some sentiment that we should just be gone.

Once this winter on a big day I kept to the edges of the pack and was content to keep to the scraps in order to maintain the neutral vibe. Finally after a long set had cleaned out the pack at the top of the peak, I was able to harvest a sublime set wave. As I dropped in and surfed past those paddling out I passed some stoked faces, even a hoot. But there were a few that although I got a wave no one else was near, their face showed some twisted nastyness.
Purists I guess.

sup808
19 posts
6 Sep 2018 11:11AM
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Thank you for the lesson, I definitely learned something.
Emeboy let me know if you need a guide or a ride to blue planet, Im always willing to catch some waves.

Bowerboy
NSW, 77 posts
7 Sep 2018 6:56AM
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Just remember they hate each other as well

DHUSOUTH
WA, 83 posts
7 Sep 2018 8:05AM
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Select to expand quote
surfinJ said..
I think that Colas lays it out pretty clear. If one of us is out by himself, or a proner alone, both at the same peeling peak with the same competence level - we will have a higher wave count. In a crowded lineup we just don't fit in and have to keep our advantage in check to somewhat fit in.

And sorry but the idea that ripping perfect behavior gets us accepted is naive. Maybe they are biting their tongue but there will almost always be some sentiment that we should just be gone.

Once this winter on a big day I kept to the edges of the pack and was content to keep to the scraps in order to maintain the neutral vibe. Finally after a long set had cleaned out the pack at the top of the peak, I was able to harvest a sublime set wave. As I dropped in and surfed past those paddling out I passed some stoked faces, even a hoot. But there were a few that although I got a wave no one else was near, their face showed some twisted nastyness.
Purists I guess.


SurfinJ

I sup surf most mornings with a couple of longboarders and its pretty even on the wave count
Mutual respect , playing by the rules , its very easy to share
I regularly call them in or out depending on the day
I find when its the non local long boarders that frequent our breaks is when we have dramas
Very easy for us to just paddle away from the morons

Johndesu
NSW, 192 posts
20 Sep 2018 12:30PM
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There is one other advantage to0 a sup that I love and that is you our out of the water most of the time (and if it is really cold then that is a very big advantage for me), and also you can see where the rocks fish, sharks, etc. better:-)

scubaste
WA, 144 posts
22 Sep 2018 6:06PM
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Hay sup808
I would say at 8'5" and bult like a brick **** house you could take any wave you wanted........
I wouldn't be complaing !

pumpjockey02
209 posts
23 Sep 2018 8:04AM
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Nope not totally true, I surf 6 months at one of the best beaches on NSW coast. There is a SUP rider who can surf with the long boarders and share the waves, even with the shortboard riders. He lives across from the break with his parents. So technically he is the most local to the spot. He rides submerged and now has left for the world tour. My experience up here if there is any size the long boarders are the first to retire to the beach.
Sup 8-08 I think the timing is where you are getting it wrong. If these guys are getting up at 6am they want to miss the crowds and are willing to risk the sharks too. Don't worry about getting heckled or told SUP is for kooks or wankers. Go and cut out a picture of a short boarder or long boarder ripping it up on a SUP. See my Tom carrol post. Dont think they can surf like him.
The other tactic is to sing like a goose in the lineup, this pisses off assholes the most. It works, proven at north narrabeen, avalon, newcastle and also at manly when things get busy.
The other problem is as its a reef break there is only one take off zone. So be jovial. Good morning fellas, how is the weather down there, so you guys want me to do a little shark check.
its just ridiculous, bowerboy understands your pain, his local is the perfect, right hander reef break, which gets crazy crowded. Its well suited to a sup, but boardriders who dont really live near the break, constantly stake their claim. Its also witnessing an influx of very talented surfers from brazil to heat things up even more.



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"Is my advantage really huge?" started by sup808