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Paddle switch turns

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Created by Kisutch Wednesday, 24 Nov 2021
Kisutch
148 posts
Wednesday , 24 Nov 2021 2:59AM
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I haven't messed with paddle switch turns much, but this week I surfed more than normal (4 long sessions, I'm wrecked!) and I experimented with putting my paddle on the wave side for backside bottom turns, and on the beach side for frontside cutbacks. I still suck at surfing backside because I always seek out rights, like this hero: www.reddit.com/r/surfing/comments/qvf3ph/i_was_watching_a_surfline_cam_when_i_noticed_some/

but wow, having the paddle to brace off is awesome and I wish I would have tried it sooner. For the frontside cutback, I'm also using the paddle as a brace and a way to get my upper body more squared - but I'm not sure if there's also a way to dig the blade a little to pivot and whip the board around. I was doing more drawn out turns, which were super fun (and new for me), but I'm excited to try other variations.

It'd be great to hear from folks on how they approach these paddle switch moves (or whether they do at all); I know there's that helpful vid by Anthony Maltese, but it's more about what board does than the paddle. Thanks for any insights!

Hawaiiheke
319 posts
Wednesday , 24 Nov 2021 5:51PM
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I'm a regular backside longboard SUP tragedy with an unhealthy addiction to always going right too so I feel your pain!

Similarly I've become too accustomed to frontside top turning with my paddle planted in the high side of the wave rather than the low (beach) side.

Lately (I'm a bit surf-staved at the mo) I've been recollecting those times when I've been haring off down the line at speed, jammed the paddle hard into the low side while stomping my back foot on the rail and unloading weight off the front foot and going into a crouch to crank a super-satisfying mid-face hack (effectively involving a turning stall rather than cut back where I'm going back the way I came).

It's always seemed a lot of fun (not sure why I stopped switching the paddle), particularly one time when I did it under the lip of a close out and was able to re-straighten in time and crouch into a ball as it smashed over me and make it out. Need to start practicing that this summer on the NZ beaches again! Ditto on going left where digging the paddle in on the low side during a cutback converts into the pivot point of doing the consequential (now frontside) well-practiced top turn off the lip. That's super satisfying too! More work ons!

Kisutch
148 posts
Thursday , 25 Nov 2021 6:26AM
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Hawaiiheke said..
I'm a regular backside longboard SUP tragedy with an unhealthy addiction to always going right too so I feel your pain!

Similarly I've become too accustomed to frontside top turning with my paddle planted in the high side of the wave rather than the low (beach) side.

Lately (I'm a bit surf-staved at the mo) I've been recollecting those times when I've been haring off down the line at speed, jammed the paddle hard into the low side while stomping my back foot on the rail and unloading weight off the front foot and going into a crouch to crank a super-satisfying mid-face hack (effectively involving a turning stall rather than cut back where I'm going back the way I came).

It's always seemed a lot of fun (not sure why I stopped switching the paddle), particularly one time when I did it under the lip of a close out and was able to re-straighten in time and crouch into a ball as it smashed over me and make it out. Need to start practicing that this summer on the NZ beaches again! Ditto on going left where digging the paddle in on the low side during a cutback converts into the pivot point of doing the consequential (now frontside) well-practiced top turn off the lip. That's super satisfying too! More work ons!


Oh man reading this makes it harder to wait to get back out in surf! Had one of my best waves ever last session -- similar to what you describe, fun steep drop and a couple turns, then had a section wall up in front of me and pumped high on wave to race it, but I'm finally learning to plan ahead, usually if I beat one of those fast sections it sort of blows my mind and I don't think to cut back until I've started to fizzle out, this time I saw the wave flattening out and started the cuttback at full speed and it was so fun! I'm so psyched to work on this more.

supthecreek
2306 posts
Thursday , 25 Nov 2021 12:50PM
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Here's an old video I made to show a cutback on my backhand. it shows the paddle switches and using the paddle in slo-mo. I didn't really engage the paddle on my initial backside turn, but it was in place if I needed it.

les71
25 posts
Thursday , 25 Nov 2021 4:29PM
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supthecreek said..
Here's an old video I made to show a cutback on my backhand. it shows the paddle switches and using the paddle in slo-mo. I didn't really engage the paddle on my initial backside turn, but it was in place if I needed it.


How does one go about this leaning on the paddle and not snapping rotator cuffs?

supthecreek
2306 posts
Thursday , 25 Nov 2021 9:57PM
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les71 said..

supthecreek said..
Here's an old video I made to show a cutback on my backhand. it shows the paddle switches and using the paddle in slo-mo. I didn't really engage the paddle on my initial backside turn, but it was in place if I needed it.



How does one go about this leaning on the paddle and not snapping rotator cuffs?


My rotator cuffs are trashed. What my videos show me is that my arms won't really go above shoulder height these days and my paddle work looks pretty lame sometimes. But.. Even though my paddle is lower than I would like, it still allows me to use it in turns. On my backside, during a cutback, the paddle will actually help my hands/paddle go higher and let me lean on it a bit

Kisutch
148 posts
Friday , 26 Nov 2021 1:19AM
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supthecreek said..
Here's an old video I made to show a cutback on my backhand. it shows the paddle switches and using the paddle in slo-mo. I didn't really engage the paddle on my initial backside turn, but it was in place if I needed it.


Looking good STC thanks for sharing!

FRP
454 posts
Friday , 26 Nov 2021 3:14AM
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supthecreek said..
Here's an old video I made to show a cutback on my backhand. it shows the paddle switches and using the paddle in slo-mo. I didn't really engage the paddle on my initial backside turn, but it was in place if I needed it.


Thanks Creek

This is a good discussion. I am absolutely crap at switching paddle side for turns. Need to work on it. Some surfers (like you) make it look effortless but I suspect that there is a more going on than what I am taking in. Can someone break this down into a series of steps and include strategies for keeping our shoulders safe during these high braces?

Cheers

Bob

les71
25 posts
Friday , 26 Nov 2021 3:31PM
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FRP said..

supthecreek said..
Here's an old video I made to show a cutback on my backhand. it shows the paddle switches and using the paddle in slo-mo. I didn't really engage the paddle on my initial backside turn, but it was in place if I needed it.



Thanks Creek

This is a good discussion. I am absolutely crap at switching paddle side for turns. Need to work on it. Some surfers (like you) make it look effortless but I suspect that there is a more going on than what I am taking in. Can someone break this down into a series of steps and include strategies for keeping our shoulders safe during these high braces?

Cheers

Bob


Second....

surfershaneA
835 posts
Saturday , 27 Nov 2021 9:26AM
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I hope this gives you something to experiment with. Happy paddling!

Especially forehand, I find the more vertical I go the more likely I am to leave the paddle on the same side as it was during the bottom turn. That is, NOT switch it. This can be doing anything from a vertical re-entry to a hack off the top. The ultimate goal is the vertical re-entry where you kick the fins and circle the board around like an air using the paddle as a pivot point and to support your balance.

Example of a "hack" not switching,




When doing a typical "cutback" I ALWAYS switch. This is something that was second nature after having done a lot of canoeing. Likewise, I have always been of the opinion that SUP surfing is a hybrid paddle sport. I find even the prone surfers treat me with more respect for using my paddle whilst riding a wave.

Two examples "switching" are first using the paddle to brake in a more longboard drop knee style cutback. The second shows how much torque can be put on a paddle as a pivot point switching,





Ishie
NSW, 35 posts
Saturday , 27 Nov 2021 2:03PM
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Yep, great explanation of the forehand approach, and well illustrated surfershane.
Regarding the backhand, I am hoping someone will start discussing the 'crossbow' paddle shift. A black-art and bloody difficult I reckon.

FRP
454 posts
Saturday , 27 Nov 2021 1:15PM
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surfershaneA said..
I hope this gives you something to experiment with. Happy paddling!

Especially forehand, I find the more vertical I go the more likely I am to leave the paddle on the same side as it was during the bottom turn. That is, NOT switch it. This can be doing anything from a vertical re-entry to a hack off the top. The ultimate goal is the vertical re-entry where you kick the fins and circle the board around like an air using the paddle as a pivot point and to support your balance.

Example of a "hack" not switching,




When doing a typical "cutback" I ALWAYS switch. This is something that was second nature after having done a lot of canoeing. Likewise, I have always been of the opinion that SUP surfing is a hybrid paddle sport. I find even the prone surfers treat me with more respect for using my paddle whilst riding a wave.

Two examples "switching" are first using the paddle to brake in a more longboard drop knee style cutback. The second shows how much torque can be put on a paddle as a pivot point switching,







Thanks SS

This helps but I am so dyslexic and regular footed I can barely get my mind around translating to the opposite foot. Can you walk me through this, timing of the switch and movement of hands and shoulders during the switch.

Nice surfing by the way!

Cheers

Bob

les71
25 posts
Saturday , 27 Nov 2021 3:25PM
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Had a crack at it this arvo. I have spent the last 7 years avoiding my backhand by exclusively chasing lefts. On the Tweed, all right points, sure you can all imagine how that goes!

Anyway, holy ###*!!!!

Went up for a turn off the lip on my backhand for the first time, sup. Neatly ate it on the landing. Then after this I got on a roll and managed a couple of roundies forehand with the paddle switch, and finally with the confidence up managed to upen up open up the body more bottom turning backhand and managed to pump around a fast section or two.
Still buzzing off that session!!!
Think I'm going to go right more often now! The switch is amazing!

Oh and losing 17kgs in 6 months and now trying this on a low volume has also helped too!

supthecreek
2306 posts
Saturday , 27 Nov 2021 6:32PM
Thumbs Up

The paddle switch:
sometimes learning tales baby steps.
I would go out for a session with a SINGLE purpose..
learning to work the paddle when surfing backside.
standing out back, I would repeat what I wanted to learn:
"Switch your paddle!"
"Switch your paddle!"
"Switch your paddle!" Dummy!
I harassed myself like a drill instructor

I wasn't out there to surf.. I was out there to learn to switch my paddle to the side it would do the most good.
pretty soon it was grooved in and over time became instinct.
I am in Florida for the winter and I forgot the plug to my computer. A new one arrives tomorrow, so I will try to put together a video showing some slo-mo "do's and don'ts" of paddle work... and I have plenty of "don'ts"

surfershaneA
835 posts
Saturday , 27 Nov 2021 7:07PM
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FRP said..
Thanks SS

This helps but I am so dyslexic and regular footed I can barely get my mind around translating to the opposite foot. Can you walk me through this, timing of the switch and movement of hands and shoulders during the switch.

Nice surfing by the way!

Cheers






No problems. I too have multiple lefts and rights in differing directions! Lol

Having done another paddle sport with a similar paddle made the switch a lot easier for me. The single Canadian cannoe paddles are basically a shorter version of a SUP one. When you want to turn, you put the paddle into the water on the side you want to move direction towards. The faster you need to change direction, the harder you put in the paddle on that side.

Going down a river with the current is much like surfing. If you need to turn gently you just need to trail the paddle so you glide to that direction. If a bloody big rock appears in front of you, it is time to jam the paddle in and thrust back on it

So think like you are surfing in a canoe. Basically when you take off you already want to be gently skimming the paddle on the side you are turning towards. As you get to the bottom of the wave dig the paddle in and let it do the work bringing the board around. The more harder you want to turn, the more aggressive you need to put your weight into the paddle. At first just practice on more placid waves getting to trust your paddle to help you turn.

For example in this shot I am taking off already trailing the paddle so I am ready to start applying the right of amount of pressure to match the bottom turn to the wave,



Next, I am well into a bottom turn looking down the line to where I am going to need to switch the paddle over to the other side. Note how much power I am getting on such a big board by leaning into the paddle.


Obviously the bottom turn will have you heading up towards the top of the wave. The time will come when you need to put the paddle on your other side to either straighten up and glide down the wave or do a cutback so you don't out race it. This is "the switch" moment.

Sorry about the same photo again, but this clearly shows how I have bought the paddle to the opposite side of the board to change direction,


The switch is the same backhand. Paddle same side as lip bottom turning. The when you transition to turning the other way, swap the paddle to the other side.

Again, I reckon the best thing to is to forget you are on a typical surfboard. Every time you bottom turn have your paddle the same side as the lip. When it is time to head down the line or cutback, swing it around the other side and apply the amount of pressure on your paddle needed. You will become more dependant on using the paddle to turn. In return you will have a lot more control and power.

Once you have mastered the "switch" you can start experimenting with doing other things like keeping the paddle on the same side to support you through a vertical. I actually found mixing it up like this was really hard for me as it was not something I bought over from canoeing.

FRP
454 posts
Sunday , 28 Nov 2021 2:14AM
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Select to expand quote
surfershaneA said..

FRP said..
Thanks SS

This helps but I am so dyslexic and regular footed I can barely get my mind around translating to the opposite foot. Can you walk me through this, timing of the switch and movement of hands and shoulders during the switch.

Nice surfing by the way!

Cheers







No problems. I too have multiple lefts and rights in differing directions! Lol

Having done another paddle sport with a similar paddle made the switch a lot easier for me. The single Canadian cannoe paddles are basically a shorter version of a SUP one. When you want to turn, you put the paddle into the water on the side you want to move direction towards. The faster you need to change direction, the harder you put in the paddle on that side.

Going down a river with the current is much like surfing. If you need to turn gently you just need to trail the paddle so you glide to that direction. If a bloody big rock appears in front of you, it is time to jam the paddle in and thrust back on it

So think like you are surfing in a canoe. Basically when you take off you already want to be gently skimming the paddle on the side you are turning towards. As you get to the bottom of the wave dig the paddle in and let it do the work bringing the board around. The more harder you want to turn, the more aggressive you need to put your weight into the paddle. At first just practice on more placid waves getting to trust your paddle to help you turn.

For example in this shot I am taking off already trailing the paddle so I am ready to start applying the right of amount of pressure to match the bottom turn to the wave,



Next, I am well into a bottom turn looking down the line to where I am going to need to switch the paddle over to the other side. Note how much power I am getting on such a big board by leaning into the paddle.


Obviously the bottom turn will have you heading up towards the top of the wave. The time will come when you need to put the paddle on your other side to either straighten up and glide down the wave or do a cutback so you don't out race it. This is "the switch" moment.

Sorry about the same photo again, but this clearly shows how I have bought the paddle to the opposite side of the board to change direction,


The switch is the same backhand. Paddle same side as lip bottom turning. The when you transition to turning the other way, swap the paddle to the other side.

Again, I reckon the best thing to is to forget you are on a typical surfboard. Every time you bottom turn have your paddle the same side as the lip. When it is time to head down the line or cutback, swing it around the other side and apply the amount of pressure on your paddle needed. You will become more dependant on using the paddle to turn. In return you will have a lot more control and power.

Once you have mastered the "switch" you can start experimenting with doing other things like keeping the paddle on the same side to support you through a vertical. I actually found mixing it up like this was really hard for me as it was not something I bought over from canoeing.


Thanks SS and Creek

All your advice will help. I appreciate your canoeing analogy. I started out surf kayaking (no front side or back side) and I will try to think more about keeping the paddle on the wave side. Oddly my strong side bracing in the kayak was always my left side and perhaps this will help with backside surf brace. Just going out with a simple goal with repetition as Creek suggests will help a lot. We have big storms rolling through right now ("atmospheric rivers") and I likely won't get out to try some of this until next week. I was talking to some longtime residents on the beach yesterday and they had never experienced this amount of rain previously. We have experience catastrophic flooding and road failures mostly on the mainland in BC and are bracing for the next few storms. So far we have been ok here in Tofino.

Cheers

Bob

surfershaneA
835 posts
Sunday , 28 Nov 2021 8:33AM
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Select to expand quote
FRP said..

surfershaneA said..


FRP said..
Thanks SS

This helps but I am so dyslexic and regular footed I can barely get my mind around translating to the opposite foot. Can you walk me through this, timing of the switch and movement of hands and shoulders during the switch.

Nice surfing by the way!

Cheers








No problems. I too have multiple lefts and rights in differing directions! Lol

Having done another paddle sport with a similar paddle made the switch a lot easier for me. The single Canadian cannoe paddles are basically a shorter version of a SUP one. When you want to turn, you put the paddle into the water on the side you want to move direction towards. The faster you need to change direction, the harder you put in the paddle on that side.

Going down a river with the current is much like surfing. If you need to turn gently you just need to trail the paddle so you glide to that direction. If a bloody big rock appears in front of you, it is time to jam the paddle in and thrust back on it

So think like you are surfing in a canoe. Basically when you take off you already want to be gently skimming the paddle on the side you are turning towards. As you get to the bottom of the wave dig the paddle in and let it do the work bringing the board around. The more harder you want to turn, the more aggressive you need to put your weight into the paddle. At first just practice on more placid waves getting to trust your paddle to help you turn.

For example in this shot I am taking off already trailing the paddle so I am ready to start applying the right of amount of pressure to match the bottom turn to the wave,



Next, I am well into a bottom turn looking down the line to where I am going to need to switch the paddle over to the other side. Note how much power I am getting on such a big board by leaning into the paddle.


Obviously the bottom turn will have you heading up towards the top of the wave. The time will come when you need to put the paddle on your other side to either straighten up and glide down the wave or do a cutback so you don't out race it. This is "the switch" moment.

Sorry about the same photo again, but this clearly shows how I have bought the paddle to the opposite side of the board to change direction,


The switch is the same backhand. Paddle same side as lip bottom turning. The when you transition to turning the other way, swap the paddle to the other side.

Again, I reckon the best thing to is to forget you are on a typical surfboard. Every time you bottom turn have your paddle the same side as the lip. When it is time to head down the line or cutback, swing it around the other side and apply the amount of pressure on your paddle needed. You will become more dependant on using the paddle to turn. In return you will have a lot more control and power.

Once you have mastered the "switch" you can start experimenting with doing other things like keeping the paddle on the same side to support you through a vertical. I actually found mixing it up like this was really hard for me as it was not something I bought over from canoeing.



Thanks SS and Creek

All your advice will help. I appreciate your canoeing analogy. I started out surf kayaking (no front side or back side) and I will try to think more about keeping the paddle on the wave side. Oddly my strong side bracing in the kayak was always my left side and perhaps this will help with backside surf brace. Just going out with a simple goal with repetition as Creek suggests will help a lot. We have big storms rolling through right now ("atmospheric rivers") and I likely won't get out to try some of this until next week. I was talking to some longtime residents on the beach yesterday and they had never experienced this amount of rain previously. We have experience catastrophic flooding and road failures mostly on the mainland in BC and are bracing for the next few storms. So far we have been ok here in Tofino.

Cheers

Bob


Bob,

My pleasure. I'd really like to see SUP surfing go a lot further in terms of paddle use. More than happy to help anyone along.

With SUP the Creek's Drill Sargent repetition analogy and my finer points you will get it. Like I said, I am still experimenting. Big difference you will find from the kayak is you are standing up constantly using everything from your fingers to your toes. One heck of a way to keep fit.

les71
25 posts
Sunday , 28 Nov 2021 1:21PM
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Select to expand quote
surfershaneA said..

FRP said..


surfershaneA said..



FRP said..
Thanks SS

This helps but I am so dyslexic and regular footed I can barely get my mind around translating to the opposite foot. Can you walk me through this, timing of the switch and movement of hands and shoulders during the switch.

Nice surfing by the way!

Cheers









No problems. I too have multiple lefts and rights in differing directions! Lol

Having done another paddle sport with a similar paddle made the switch a lot easier for me. The single Canadian cannoe paddles are basically a shorter version of a SUP one. When you want to turn, you put the paddle into the water on the side you want to move direction towards. The faster you need to change direction, the harder you put in the paddle on that side.

Going down a river with the current is much like surfing. If you need to turn gently you just need to trail the paddle so you glide to that direction. If a bloody big rock appears in front of you, it is time to jam the paddle in and thrust back on it

So think like you are surfing in a canoe. Basically when you take off you already want to be gently skimming the paddle on the side you are turning towards. As you get to the bottom of the wave dig the paddle in and let it do the work bringing the board around. The more harder you want to turn, the more aggressive you need to put your weight into the paddle. At first just practice on more placid waves getting to trust your paddle to help you turn.

For example in this shot I am taking off already trailing the paddle so I am ready to start applying the right of amount of pressure to match the bottom turn to the wave,



Next, I am well into a bottom turn looking down the line to where I am going to need to switch the paddle over to the other side. Note how much power I am getting on such a big board by leaning into the paddle.


Obviously the bottom turn will have you heading up towards the top of the wave. The time will come when you need to put the paddle on your other side to either straighten up and glide down the wave or do a cutback so you don't out race it. This is "the switch" moment.

Sorry about the same photo again, but this clearly shows how I have bought the paddle to the opposite side of the board to change direction,


The switch is the same backhand. Paddle same side as lip bottom turning. The when you transition to turning the other way, swap the paddle to the other side.

Again, I reckon the best thing to is to forget you are on a typical surfboard. Every time you bottom turn have your paddle the same side as the lip. When it is time to head down the line or cutback, swing it around the other side and apply the amount of pressure on your paddle needed. You will become more dependant on using the paddle to turn. In return you will have a lot more control and power.

Once you have mastered the "switch" you can start experimenting with doing other things like keeping the paddle on the same side to support you through a vertical. I actually found mixing it up like this was really hard for me as it was not something I bought over from canoeing.




Thanks SS and Creek

All your advice will help. I appreciate your canoeing analogy. I started out surf kayaking (no front side or back side) and I will try to think more about keeping the paddle on the wave side. Oddly my strong side bracing in the kayak was always my left side and perhaps this will help with backside surf brace. Just going out with a simple goal with repetition as Creek suggests will help a lot. We have big storms rolling through right now ("atmospheric rivers") and I likely won't get out to try some of this until next week. I was talking to some longtime residents on the beach yesterday and they had never experienced this amount of rain previously. We have experience catastrophic flooding and road failures mostly on the mainland in BC and are bracing for the next few storms. So far we have been ok here in Tofino.

Cheers

Bob



Bob,

My pleasure. I'd really like to see SUP surfing go a lot further in terms of paddle use. More than happy to help anyone along.

With SUP the Creek's Drill Sargent repetition analogy and my finer points you will get it. Like I said, I am still experimenting. Big difference you will find from the kayak is you are standing up constantly using everything from your fingers to your toes. One heck of a way to keep fit.


Progression.....burying the rail, but with a paddle instead?

slsurf
88 posts
Monday , 29 Nov 2021 1:58AM
Thumbs Up

Great looking turns, wish I could power thru mine like that. I'm still struggling with my cutback. Which way should the blade face when leaning on it for bottom turn or cutback? I have the blade angled up on my bottom turn, but on your switch cutback blade is angled down, I would think it might catch like that, but looks like it works.

surfinJ
599 posts
Monday , 29 Nov 2021 2:25AM
Thumbs Up

Thanks a lot SS, those are some great shots. Like Creek with only a surf background it is a learning practice for me to use the paddle as an aid in turns. I can see how guys like yourself with other paddle sports backgrounds have some good skills/habits already to go.

Tardy
4182 posts
Monday , 29 Nov 2021 5:03AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
supthecreek said..
The paddle switch:
sometimes learning tales baby steps.
I would go out for a session with a SINGLE purpose..
learning to work the paddle when surfing backside.
standing out back, I would repeat what I wanted to learn:
"Switch your paddle!"
"Switch your paddle!"
"Switch your paddle!" Dummy!
I harassed myself like a drill instructor

I wasn't out there to surf.. I was out there to learn to switch my paddle to the side it would do the most good.
pretty soon it was grooved in and over time became instinct.
I am in Florida for the winter and I forgot the plug to my computer. A new one arrives tomorrow, so I will try to put together a video showing some slo-mo "do's and don'ts" of paddle work... and I have plenty of "don'ts"


I've fixed that problem by having two different paddles a left hand one and a right hand one ,the left one i use for left handers
then the right .i use for back hand waves .or right handers .
switch blade .

Kisutch
148 posts
Tuesday , 30 Nov 2021 12:38AM
Thumbs Up

awesome pics surfershanea!

Couple things I notice as I work on these turns -

Hard to decide whether to switch the paddle in between bottom turn and cuttback, or prior to bottom turn. Feels weird at first to frontside bottom turn without the paddle on the wave side.

When I got the paddleswitch cutback to start working, I had more speed, but I also took it easier as I started the turn. Before I would always fall off on my heel rail side. I think this was partly cause of lack of speed, but also because i was trying to turn too fast.

So bummed cause right as things were really clicking storms/work got me out of the water for 1 week+. Hope others are working on these turns right now




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"Paddle switch turns" started by Kisutch