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SUP volume vs width vs length stability confusion

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Created by SCano 1 month ago, 11 Apr 2021
SCano
NSW, 5 posts
11 Apr 2021 9:04AM
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Hi Everyone.

I'm looking to buy either a SMIK Hipster Twin long (10 x 29@135L or x30@142L) or the Style Lord (10 x29@133L or x30@135L or X32@165L). Stability is the dilemma.

My regular surf spot is often windy with surface chop. Currently surf a Sunova Surf 10'6 x30 at 158L ,8" fin with sides, which is very stable in choppy windy conditions. Also surf a Jimmy Lewis Destroyer 8'10 x31 at 145L 9" fins with sides, which is way more tippy than the Surf.

I don't understand why the less volume and wider Destroyer is more tippy than the narrower more volume Surf. The lower volume and wider Destroyer seems to run with www commentary that it should be less tippy. Not my experience. I'm wondering if there is a third thing to consider which is actual surface area submersed in the water which could help explain why the Surf is more stable as it has more surface area and less rocker which might put it more planted in the water? A fourth thing maybe? Anyway maybe not relevant as I'm seeking suggestions on board dimensions.

Being remote from suppliers or demo options my purchase decisions are made from forum comments, research and experience. I'm 6'1 at 82kg, supping for 3 years. I just want a stable longboard for windy and choppy conditions which is more manoeuvrable than the Sunova Surf, and more stable than my Destroyer. So any suggestions on SMIK dimensions above will be appreciated.

Thank you :-)

BigZ
98 posts
11 Apr 2021 8:40AM
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Select to expand quote
SCano said..
Hi Everyone.

I'm looking to buy either a SMIK Hipster Twin long (10 x 29@135L or x30@142L) or the Style Lord (10 x29@133L or x30@135L or X32@165L). Stability is the dilemma.

My regular surf spot is often windy with surface chop. Currently surf a Sunova Surf 10'6 x30 at 158L ,8" fin with sides, which is very stable in choppy windy conditions. Also surf a Jimmy Lewis Destroyer 8'10 x31 at 145L 9" fins with sides, which is way more tippy than the Surf.

I don't understand why the less volume and wider Destroyer is more tippy than the narrower more volume Surf. The lower volume and wider Destroyer seems to run with www commentary that it should be less tippy. Not my experience. I'm wondering if there is a third thing to consider which is actual surface area submersed in the water which could help explain why the Surf is more stable as it has more surface area and less rocker which might put it more planted in the water? A fourth thing maybe? Anyway maybe not relevant as I'm seeking suggestions on board dimensions.

Being remote from suppliers or demo options my purchase decisions are made from forum comments, research and experience. I'm 6'1 at 82kg, supping for 3 years. I just want a stable longboard for windy and choppy conditions which is more manoeuvrable than the Sunova Surf, and more stable than my Destroyer. So any suggestions on SMIK dimensions above will be appreciated.

Thank you :-)



In my opinion, the biggest factor contributing to stability is the shape - as long as you have enough volume not to submerge a board to much.

For me the minimum Guild factor at which volume becomes the secondary factor of stability is about 1.15. My lowest volume board - 120l - is also my most stable. It is an 8'4 x 30 but the rails are quite parallel and both the nose and the tail are wide - it is a custom Infinity RNB.
It is way more stable than my other boards with higher volume in ~130l range.

For the reference, I am 6'4 and 106kg.

Although you can speculate whether a given shape is more stable than another - e.g. wider tail vs more pulled in - you will not know for sure till you test a board in rough conditions. It is very personal. What feels stable for one person may not be stable for another. It depends on your stance, how you use the paddle, your center of gravity, etc.

For example, my RNB feels relatively tippy but has excellent secondary stability. I have a very narrow, slightly offset stance when not on a wave, which seems to work perfectly well this shape. I find a lot of higher volume boards very corky and difficult to balance because the secondary stability is poor and it is difficult to recover when you tip the board too much.

Hoppo3228
VIC, 452 posts
11 Apr 2021 11:28AM
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The length change from the surf to the destroyer, along with the different rocker contribute most to the stability difference. The JL @145L is also likely to be 'corky' at your weight.

I can't see a reason why you should buy those Smik's. Yes Scotty makes sweet boards, but you're just overlapping what you already have.

I have a custom 10'4" x 28" Surf and fin it as a thruster with a smaller centre fin (133mm sides, 118mm centre). On the tail it surfs like a much smaller board. The only hinderence to me is the length of the board on steep waves... on point waves it's perfect. So I would try a thruster fin set up first.

Then if you are still unhappy:

If going for a longboard -I would ask bert / dylan for a custom high performance version of the Surf, at about 9'6" in length, 110L+ width up to you. I wouldn't go super thin in the rails on the sides, but let it thin right off towards the tail. Thruster fin set up. Or, if you don't want to wait - a Striker or Steeze could be good choices at 9'5" or so...

Or/

Get a longer surf shape that isn't super wide. Thinking something like 9'6" x 30". The extra curve in the outline will aid performance surfing, and you'll still be able to do a cheater 5... The length will still give you enough glide. I did this with an Atlantis Vex 9'6".

colas
4188 posts
11 Apr 2021 1:44PM
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SCano said..
I'm wondering if there is a third thing to consider which is actual surface area submersed in the water which could help explain why the Surf is more stable as it has more surface area and less rocker which might put it more planted in the water?


Yes, to the point that Gong now lists the surface area on the web pages of their boards. But it is only a factor among others.

Other than that I totally second BigZ post.
Especially the "It is very personal. What feels stable for one person may not be stable for another" part. Investing in your technique (paddling, mastering the row, paddling with staggered feet, keeping the feet close to the stringer, knees bent, ...) will help you feel stable without resorting to increasing too much the board dimensions.

And I would add "what feels stable one day might be hell some months later, and vice-versa", see: www.seabreeze.com.au/forums/Stand-Up-Paddle/SUP/Small-SUP-boards--a-sobering-experience

slsurf
57 posts
12 Apr 2021 12:34AM
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A 10'6 vs 8'10 is a huge difference, both at high volumes the shorter board will be more reactive to the chop since it is packing the volume into a smaller area even if it is wider at the wide point it doesn't stay that way for as long. The destroyer at a ratio of nearly 1.8 is way too corky to notice the lower volume vs the other board. I think if you can drop volume to 1.4-1.5 on a longer board you will gain a lot in surfing and possibly the board will react slower to the chop and be less jittery. The one undeniable tradeoff is less volume paddles slower, but were surfing not racing. If I was in your shoes I would talk to scotty and see about possibly getting one of the boards you mentioned at a lower volume. I think hippo nailed it 9'6 x 30 and I would go 118 liters hip twin since you are not noseriding.

SCano
NSW, 5 posts
21 Apr 2021 7:43PM
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Hi to all that replied, and my apologies for not replying sooner.

Thank you for your clarifications, input and ideas. I did forget to add that I would like to be a 1 board owner, though I suspect Ill keep the 10'6 Surf (good for mush, and friends to ride) and sell the 8'10 JL.

I have been liaising with Scott at Smik and we are working towards a 9'6 x30or29 130L HipsterTwin Longboard. He said he made one for another dude and that person hasnt stopped raving about it, and he feels it will be a good compromise for me too.

Thanks again everyone :-)



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