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Another fin question - positioning of side bites?

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Created by damned67 A week ago, 21 Jun 2022
damned67
313 posts
21 Jun 2022 8:43PM
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Hey Team!
Let's talk positioning of side bites in a 2+1 set up (and shouldn't that really be 1+2?).
Why would I even ask, you say? Good question given glassed on fins are somewhat of a rarity these days.
My 11' Munoz has side bite boxes that accomodate both FCSI and FCSII fins, but not in the same position.
The FCSII position is further forward - and I know pics would be better here - but forward in the box by the distance of the fin tabs.
How long is a fin tab? about 3/4 of an inch.
Doesn't sound like much, but moving a centre fin 3/4" forward, depending on the fin and tail design can/will make a difference.
With the side bites, particularly given the tail of the board is narrowing through that section, moving the side bite forward in the box for the FCSII (noting that I don't own any FCSII side bites ) moves them significantly further away from the rail.

Long story short, what is the impact of having the side bites closer to, or further away, from the rail?

Longer story even shorter, should I get my hands on some FCSII side bites?

Longest story shortest, do you need pics?

Cheers!

surf1ng
SA, 58 posts
22 Jun 2022 8:48PM
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Great post. Very interested in the answers from those in the know.
I am guessing in sidebites it might not make that much difference, or at least less difference than moving the bigger centre fin the same distance.

I am with you. I also think that 1+2 makes the most sense as a label for a bigger centre fin with smaller sidebites - where the primary fin is mentioned first.
Ipso (what have I become haha), a twinny with a smaller centre trailer makes more sense to me labeled as a 2+1. It's not called 1+2 as the reverse.
Weird.

thedrip
WA, 2289 posts
23 Jun 2022 1:07AM
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Select to expand quote
damned67 said..
Hey Team!
Let's talk positioning of side bites in a 2+1 set up (and shouldn't that really be 1+2?).
Why would I even ask, you say? Good question given glassed on fins are somewhat of a rarity these days.
My 11' Munoz has side bite boxes that accomodate both FCSI and FCSII fins, but not in the same position.
The FCSII position is further forward - and I know pics would be better here - but forward in the box by the distance of the fin tabs.
How long is a fin tab? about 3/4 of an inch.
Doesn't sound like much, but moving a centre fin 3/4" forward, depending on the fin and tail design can/will make a difference.
With the side bites, particularly given the tail of the board is narrowing through that section, moving the side bite forward in the box for the FCSII (noting that I don't own any FCSII side bites ) moves them significantly further away from the rail.

Long story short, what is the impact of having the side bites closer to, or further away, from the rail?

Longer story even shorter, should I get my hands on some FCSII side bites?

Longest story shortest, do you need pics?

Cheers!


Yep. I may be obtuse but I can't really imagine how this is working, so pics would be helpful.

i think it depends on the size of your Center fin and side bites. If they are little fins and a big single, then the impact is way less than if it was more of a thruster-y set up with side bites more like normal fins.
So an 8" single fin with 3 1/4 side bites will see way less impact than a 6.5" fin with 4 1/4 side bites.

Al G
NSW, 7580 posts
23 Jun 2022 12:55PM
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Ask Laceys Lane he is the fin expert

Macaha
QLD, 21720 posts
23 Jun 2022 1:42PM
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Select to expand quote
Al G said..
Ask Laceys Lane he is the fin expert


damned67
313 posts
23 Jun 2022 4:06PM
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So, I have no idea if this makes a difference or not. Given all the talk of fluid dynamics, tail shape, rail profile etc, there would have to be some effect - but may not be noticeable?

Pic of it is in the 'FCS' position. To lock it into the little roller associated with the FCSII system, the fin sits fully forward in the box.
Given the tapering of the tail through that section, switching the fin between those to positions (FYI - it's one position or the other), moves the leading edge of the fin closer to, or further away from the rail itself.

With other fin setups (Thruster, twins etc), actual placement of the fins in relation to the rail can be critical, from what I've read and heard.
May be much less important in the 2+1 (or 1+2 ) setup?

The thoughts about size, re in comparison to the center fin makes sense. One could also assume the smaller the surface area of the side fin, the less it's placement matters?

Nonetheless, even if somewhat meaningless, perhaps an interesting discussion point?

surf1ng
SA, 58 posts
23 Jun 2022 9:01PM
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The front of this FCSII Connect sidebite sticks out a fair bit. The fin is set back a lot. Would that put the actual fin position closer to your current FCS I fin?

damned67
313 posts
23 Jun 2022 8:35PM
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surf1ng said..

The front of this FCSII Connect sidebite sticks out a fair bit. The fin is set back a lot. Would that put the actual fin position closer to your current FCS I fin?


I'm sure it would. The bigger question for discussion is 'does it really matter'?

Doesn't Joel Tudor refer to side-bites as 'training wheels'? Does that then imply that they're less important in an 2+1 set up or on a longboard (at least in terms of placement)?

Would love to hear from a longboard designer/builder re: how important the placement of the side fins are in a 2+1 set up. If important, it's presumably based on rail, tail and centre fin placement.
Probably more important on a HP longboard (which the 11' Munoz isn't), if at all.



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"Another fin question - positioning of side bites?" started by damned67