Forums > Wind Wings General

First time buyer's advice on board volume, wing size, and (hydrofoil) frontwing size

Reply
Created by MProject04 A week ago, 10 Oct 2020
MProject04
101 posts
10 Oct 2020 11:19PM
Thumbs Up

So I am trying to figure out what size board, wing, and foil frontwing to buy. I thought I could figure this out just by online research and without having to create another *what board, wing* thread. So sorry if I duplicate a previous thread. I've been through all threads trying to piece together information, but its not easy

Quickly about my level and conditions:
- I am an experienced windfoiler.
- I'd like to wingfoil in the more lighter wind conditions, say around 10 kts or less
- my weight is 70 kg
- I sail in freshwater lakes (in Estonia)

My questions:

1. Board volume:
Is there a calculation for wingfoiling to calculate the ideal volume? For example take your: body weight in kgs and add .. liter? I don't intend to sup paddle with the board, pure foiling. I would like a nice stable platform to get going. Yet something that I don't outgrow too quick.
Also advice on good beginners boards is appreciated. I am looking at the Gong Zuma and Takoon Comet (liking the latter a lot!)

2. Wing size:
The conditions I'd go out in are on the lake, flatwater, 10 kts. I am thinking a 6 m should be fine, but not sure. Or should I go bigger?

3. Hydro foil front wing size:
I have the NP glide wind foil with S (1045 cm2) and M (1260 cm2) wings. I want to convert the foil by getting the surf fuselage, which puts the front wing more aft. I am not sure what size front wing I should get. I can choose between L (1540 cm2) and XL (1960 cm2). I heard somewhere that front wings for winging need to be quite a step bigger and windfoil. Any advice on frontwing size (in relation to weight?)

***
I am aware that several have asked similar questions, but each context seems a bit different to mine.
I'd really appreciate some some advice, pointers, guidance. I tried to formulate the questions so that others after me may also benefit.

Thanks!

LeeD
1775 posts
11 Oct 2020 12:54AM
Thumbs Up

I see that wings need more wind than windfoils.
For 10, with none or few higher gusts of 15, then a big floaty board maybe 120 liters, 7 wing, and XL wing set forward.
Lots of pumping.

SlightlyDamp
11 posts
11 Oct 2020 1:45AM
Thumbs Up

Hi mate,

I posted a similar question not long ago. I am just learning, I weigh 75kg and I have also done a fair bit of wind foiling.

I have bought a 5m starboard freewing and have now had a good session on it. I used it with my existing naish 120L hover board as I have not decided on what board to buy yet.

My thoughts after my first wing session:

Learning to use the wing is easy - inflating it, flying it, flipping it over in the water seems really easy. I watched a few youtube vids before I went out and it was a piece of piss....however..I went out on a low wind day (gusting 10 to 12 knots) and I wish I had waited for a stronger wind day.

When the wind drops you are fooked with a wing, when you are windfoiling at least you can just balance yourself and float for a bit until the next gust, but with wing foiling I was left trying to hold dead weight above my head and inevitably had to drop the wing in the water.

I think ideal wind is 15-20knots to learn, anything less seems non ideal.

I can't imagine trying to learn with a 6m wing, if anything I was thinking a 5m one was a bit big for learning as every now and again I caught the edge in the water (this might happen less with more wind).

How you stay up wind on these things in low wind (non flying conditions) I have no idea!...I did a lot of swimming up wind.

I have seen lots of people saying that ideal board volume for learning is your weight + at least 20L which seems like good advice. On a 120L board, getting to the knee and then standing up when there was a gust was relatively easy, but I would definitely not want to go below 100L at this stage.

I am not convinced that winging in less than 10 Knots is feasible, even with a 6m wing?...from my experience so far I think you need more wind than windfoiling to wing.

I'm not sure that wingfoiling in < 10 knots would be fun. But I am also currently crap at it.

Hope that helps a bit.

Be cool if you would share your learning experiences as you get started.

bigtone667
NSW, 1281 posts
11 Oct 2020 7:00AM
Thumbs Up

If 10knots is your typical wind, then take up bike riding.

emmafoils
207 posts
11 Oct 2020 4:23AM
Thumbs Up

10 knots is too light to learn in

LeeD
1775 posts
11 Oct 2020 4:56AM
Thumbs Up

I guess, in learning windfoiling, 10 knots is adequate wind for SUP boards and learning basic wing handling while slogging around.
But that appears to be enough breeze for lightweight windfoilers to buzz around with 7meter sails and wide hard railed boards with mid sized foils.

LeeD
1775 posts
11 Oct 2020 4:58AM
Thumbs Up

I meant to type winGfoil, but this cell phone has it's own mind.

LeeD
1775 posts
11 Oct 2020 5:01AM
Thumbs Up

I suspect winG usage needs the front wing more forward than winD foiling.

tarquin1
450 posts
11 Oct 2020 2:43PM
Thumbs Up

I am about to start as well. Going to share the cost with a friend. 80kgs and my mate 73kgs. Build my own board. Around 6'X30".
From what I can tell is dont go below 100l board as said. If you can learn to foil behind a boat is a big help. Go big on the wing. I am looking at 6m.
Unfortunately it seems like you need to change everything pretty quick once you learn. But having the wrong kit to learn is a nightmare. Going to small on anything to begin seems like a bad idea. Hopefully be able to sell stuff easily.
I think buying a brand of foil you are going to stick with and be able to change the foils is a good idea. I am in France so going to go with Gong.
The board I will cut down once we learn.
My mate had some lessons already and said the difference between a 95 and 105 l board was huge. He could easily use the bigger board but the smaller one was a struggle and you can't control the wing when you are wobbling around.
See how we go.

Dommo49
116 posts
11 Oct 2020 3:59PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
MProject04 said..
So I am trying to figure out what size board, wing, and foil frontwing to buy. I thought I could figure this out just by online research and without having to create another *what board, wing* thread. So sorry if I duplicate a previous thread. I've been through all threads trying to piece together information, but its not easy

Quickly about my level and conditions:
- I am an experienced windfoiler.
- I'd like to wingfoil in the more lighter wind conditions, say around 10 kts or less
- my weight is 70 kg
- I sail in freshwater lakes (in Estonia)

My questions:

1. Board volume:
Is there a calculation for wingfoiling to calculate the ideal volume? For example take your: body weight in kgs and add .. liter? I don't intend to sup paddle with the board, pure foiling. I would like a nice stable platform to get going. Yet something that I don't outgrow too quick.
Also advice on good beginners boards is appreciated. I am looking at the Gong Zuma and Takoon Comet (liking the latter a lot!)

2. Wing size:
The conditions I'd go out in are on the lake, flatwater, 10 kts. I am thinking a 6 m should be fine, but not sure. Or should I go bigger?

3. Hydro foil front wing size:
I have the NP glide wind foil with S (1045 cm2) and M (1260 cm2) wings. I want to convert the foil by getting the surf fuselage, which puts the front wing more aft. I am not sure what size front wing I should get. I can choose between L (1540 cm2) and XL (1960 cm2). I heard somewhere that front wings for winging need to be quite a step bigger and windfoil. Any advice on frontwing size (in relation to weight?)

***
I am aware that several have asked similar questions, but each context seems a bit different to mine.
I'd really appreciate some some advice, pointers, guidance. I tried to formulate the questions so that others after me may also benefit.

Thanks!


Board vol: Your weight (kg) +20 ltrs
Wing and foil size - in 10 knots: as big as possible, especially as a beginner.

LeeD
1775 posts
11 Oct 2020 11:05PM
Thumbs Up

Recos are for ideal windspeed for your weight.
If you are learning or need to slog, go up.

MProject04
101 posts
12 Oct 2020 12:54AM
Thumbs Up

Thanks everyone for the insights and advices! My first takeaway is that I will need to wingfoil with a bit more wind e.g. 12-15 knots with some stronger gusts!

I guess it's a bit the same as windfoiling, learning in stronger winds and as you get better, more comfortable with pumping, getting going etc you bring it back to lesser windspeeds.

I reached out to a board and wing company that tells me to go for the 105 L board (even if they have bigger size) and their 6 m wing (even if they have a 7m), and definitely a front wing that's around 2000 cm2 range.

For the fellow beginners I thought I share this video (good chance you've seen it already)



Once again thanks really appreciate your inputs!

LeeD
1775 posts
12 Oct 2020 1:30AM
Thumbs Up

Good luck with that..
Robbie's kid prolly weighed 40 kilos on a 105 board.
Robbie is around our weight, but he's maybe more skilled?

Jeroensurf
395 posts
12 Oct 2020 2:15AM
Thumbs Up

I used o wavesail and windsurf-foil a lot and started with winging, bout last week my quiver :).I winged 2times before I bought my kit and went with 95kg for a Fanatic SkyFly5.8x28x110l and an Echo 6+4m and have an Gofoil Maliko 200+IWA with a long mast. First time in choppy very gusty conditions it was very hard to get on the board, but today the 2th sess in flat water with the 6.0 Echo I could fly allover the place in conditions where windsurffoilers who where a LOT lighter and with 7.5m sails couldnt get going and dropped down where I kept flying. For me the biggest difference is that with the Wing set I can pump a lot easier through the windholes as with a windsurf-foil set.So not sure how much wind you need, but IMO it is less as windsurf foiling.I guess a bigger board is more stable and easier to get standing, but once you atre flying, a shorter board seems is easier to fly and to pump. So my solutions was buying something to grow a bit into and as small as I dare to right now.

LeeD
1775 posts
12 Oct 2020 2:47AM
Thumbs Up

Good advice, thanks.

bigtone667
NSW, 1281 posts
12 Oct 2020 6:25AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
MProject04 said..
Thanks everyone for the insights and advices! My first takeaway is that I will need to wingfoil with a bit more wind e.g. 12-15 knots with some stronger gusts!

I guess it's a bit the same as windfoiling, learning in stronger winds and as you get better, more comfortable with pumping, getting going etc you bring it back to lesser windspeeds.

I reached out to a board and wing company that tells me to go for the 105 L board (even if they have bigger size) and their 6 m wing (even if they have a 7m), and definitely a front wing that's around 2000 cm2 range.

For the fellow beginners I thought I share this video (good chance you've seen it already)



Once again thanks really appreciate your inputs!


Sounds like you are getting good advice from the board/wing company and have some good insight into the wind requirements. Enjoy learning :-)

MProject04
101 posts
12 Oct 2020 4:22AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Jeroensurf said..
I used o wavesail and windsurf-foil a lot and started with winging, bout last week my quiver :).I winged 2times before I bought my kit and went with 95kg for a Fanatic SkyFly5.8x28x110l and an Echo 6+4m and have an Gofoil Maliko 200+IWA with a long mast. First time in choppy very gusty conditions it was very hard to get on the board, but today the 2th sess in flat water with the 6.0 Echo I could fly allover the place in conditions where windsurffoilers who where a LOT lighter and with 7.5m sails couldnt get going and dropped down where I kept flying. For me the biggest difference is that with the Wing set I can pump a lot easier through the windholes as with a windsurf-foil set.So not sure how much wind you need, but IMO it is less as windsurf foiling.I guess a bigger board is more stable and easier to get standing, but once you atre flying, a shorter board seems is easier to fly and to pump. So my solutions was buying something to grow a bit into and as small as I dare to right now.


That's a great insight! Thanks for sharing. I am more encouraged nows I am worried about choppy conditions, so will definitely avoid in first times out.

What's the surface area (cm2) of the GoFoil M200+IWA wing? I tried to look it up but could not find the spec.

MProject04
101 posts
12 Oct 2020 4:29AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
bigtone667 said..

MProject04 said..
Thanks everyone for the insights and advices! My first takeaway is that I will need to wingfoil with a bit more wind e.g. 12-15 knots with some stronger gusts!

I guess it's a bit the same as windfoiling, learning in stronger winds and as you get better, more comfortable with pumping, getting going etc you bring it back to lesser windspeeds.

I reached out to a board and wing company that tells me to go for the 105 L board (even if they have bigger size) and their 6 m wing (even if they have a 7m), and definitely a front wing that's around 2000 cm2 range.

For the fellow beginners I thought I share this video (good chance you've seen it already)



Once again thanks really appreciate your inputs!



Sounds like you are getting good advice from the board/wing company and have some good insight into the wind requirements. Enjoy learning :-)


Thanks! The great thing of the past 1.5 year of windfoiling has been gaining confidence of still being able to learn something new, from first flights to sustained flights to foil jibes. Despite the job not done, I can't wait to start all over again

Nov8
QLD, 1 posts
12 Oct 2020 8:10AM
Thumbs Up

I'm also a beginner, never wing foiled before. 85kg, 180cm tall. I've just purchased new gear.

Second session on the weekend, lake with lots of chop, very gusty 12-15knots, managed to get up foiling which was exciting. My lessons learned so far:-

1/. Big is better. 125 lt board is right for me, trying to learn on anything smaller would have been a big mistake. 2000 cm2 front foil easily lifts in gusts without pumping the wing or board (I haven't quite figured out how to do this properly yet).

2/. Mast position in the tracks is critical, as is foot position and steady front foot pressure. Experimentation needed to get these things dialled.

3/. 5.3 m2 wing is about right for me. When not up on the foil the wing tips can drag in the water, so a larger wing would make this issue worse. I wouldn't bother in less than 12 knots of wind, 15 knots much easier.

4/. The knee starts aren't great for my old knees, so I get straight to my feet. Slide onto stomach, wing leading edge next to the board. One hand on board, one hand on leading edge, stand straight up. Adjust foot position carefully, let the board settle, then lift the wing quickly and go.

5/. If it is windy enough you will go upwind without trying.

6/. Wear a helmet and impact vest while learning. I attach my board leash to a waist belt, and my wing leash to my wrist which works well for me.

7/. When you start falling just let it happen. Let go of the wing, and fall away from the board. Don't kick your shins on the foil when remounting

robbo1111
NSW, 530 posts
12 Oct 2020 9:38AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
MProject04 said..

Jeroensurf said..
I used o wavesail and windsurf-foil a lot and started with winging, bout last week my quiver :).I winged 2times before I bought my kit and went with 95kg for a Fanatic SkyFly5.8x28x110l and an Echo 6+4m and have an Gofoil Maliko 200+IWA with a long mast. First time in choppy very gusty conditions it was very hard to get on the board, but today the 2th sess in flat water with the 6.0 Echo I could fly allover the place in conditions where windsurffoilers who where a LOT lighter and with 7.5m sails couldnt get going and dropped down where I kept flying. For me the biggest difference is that with the Wing set I can pump a lot easier through the windholes as with a windsurf-foil set.So not sure how much wind you need, but IMO it is less as windsurf foiling.I guess a bigger board is more stable and easier to get standing, but once you atre flying, a shorter board seems is easier to fly and to pump. So my solutions was buying something to grow a bit into and as small as I dare to right now.



That's a great insight! Thanks for sharing. I am more encouraged nows I am worried about choppy conditions, so will definitely avoid in first times out.

What's the surface area (cm2) of the GoFoil M200+IWA wing? I tried to look it up but could not find the spec.


I have roughly measured my IWA and M200 at 1300 cm2 and 1750 cm2. They are great foils for beginners to intermediates, I've been on mine for over 6 months and am gybing and tacking without issue. Only other foils I have tried are the Armstrong 1600 and 2400 which I didnt like and the Armstrong 1550 which I did like.

Jeroensurf
395 posts
12 Oct 2020 7:13PM
Thumbs Up

Good to got you stoked

Here you have an comparison chart on foil sizes: www.mackiteboarding.com/news/hydrofoiling-the-best-do-it-all-foils-foil-fridays-ep-18/I tried an Naish High Aspect foil and I,m sure I can grow into it, but compared to the Maliko (probably is with your weight an IWA fine), they need a lot more attention to trim the height where the Maliko has a bit of an autopilot.
The HA are a lot faster, but o be honest, i,m in a learning stage and looking for ease and control, not speed.
Maybe in time when I get better I would buy such foil, but when learning ease of use is your friend.

dejavu
274 posts
13 Oct 2020 7:07AM
Thumbs Up

At 80 kgs. I would seriously consider a 120 lire board to start and at least a 5 metre wing or a combo of 4 and 6 metre wings.

LeeD
1775 posts
13 Oct 2020 7:45AM
Thumbs Up

Agree., and minimum wind to foil, for beginner, is 15....more preferrably.
Stable 120 board, not one with thin rails and domed deck.

MProject04
101 posts
16 Oct 2020 2:25AM
Thumbs Up

This video touches on front wing size

NordRoi
341 posts
Saturday , 17 Oct 2020 9:37PM
Thumbs Up

First MProject, I think you are going to like it. I live also on a spot where wind is fluky and on freshwater.

First, I'm more efficient on wingfoil than windfoil, I need less wind in wingfoil. The range of wingfoil is way more than windfoil, so if you are in a place with very gusty wind, it will help also.

I'm your weight, 72kg and I'M 177cm. If you are not that tall like me a 6.0 is wide...wing tips will drift in water much more than a 5.0...so take a powerful 5.0 or a larger 6.0, you pick. I picked a powerful 5.0. Wind is gusting oftent from 10 to 23 kts here..so this is why I picked the 5.0. If you are on pryde, X-Large would be a better natural jump from you Medium...front wing matters..but pumping the board matter the most. The advantage with a short mast(75cm) and a rather large front wing in my opinion is you can feel small windswell on river/lakes in over 20 kts...and can try to surf it. If you are like me, when wind can completely shut down..than go with a board that you can stand up in chops and have to wait for the next gusts...sometimes 20-30 sec. For me my 115 is enough but I would pick anything from 110 to 125, as long as it's compact and light and with more volume you can let your heavier friend test your gear. (I think everyone go for a second way more smaller board after a while). One thing very important if you want to wing in very light wind, the total weight of your kit!

BTW, a friend of mine came with a super nice observation. Wing(the sail) high end range seems the same regardless the weight. For example if a 5.0 stating 12-23 kts, you will be able to foil sooner than someone who is 100kg. However at 23 kts, it's not because you are 100kg you will be able to extend that wing up to 30 kts, the reason is at 23 kts the wing become instable and flap a lot and this is the limit of the wing regardless your weight. Not sure everyone agree but certainly a good observation from him.

MProject04
101 posts
Tuesday , 20 Oct 2020 1:04AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
NordRoi said..
First MProject, I think you are going to like it. I live also on a spot where wind is fluky and on freshwater.

First, I'm more efficient on wingfoil than windfoil, I need less wind in wingfoil. The range of wingfoil is way more than windfoil, so if you are in a place with very gusty wind, it will help also.

I'm your weight, 72kg and I'M 177cm. If you are not that tall like me a 6.0 is wide...wing tips will drift in water much more than a 5.0...so take a powerful 5.0 or a larger 6.0, you pick. I picked a powerful 5.0. Wind is gusting oftent from 10 to 23 kts here..so this is why I picked the 5.0. If you are on pryde, X-Large would be a better natural jump from you Medium...front wing matters..but pumping the board matter the most. The advantage with a short mast(75cm) and a rather large front wing in my opinion is you can feel small windswell on river/lakes in over 20 kts...and can try to surf it. If you are like me, when wind can completely shut down..than go with a board that you can stand up in chops and have to wait for the next gusts...sometimes 20-30 sec. For me my 115 is enough but I would pick anything from 110 to 125, as long as it's compact and light and with more volume you can let your heavier friend test your gear. (I think everyone go for a second way more smaller board after a while). One thing very important if you want to wing in very light wind, the total weight of your kit!

BTW, a friend of mine came with a super nice observation. Wing(the sail) high end range seems the same regardless the weight. For example if a 5.0 stating 12-23 kts, you will be able to foil sooner than someone who is 100kg. However at 23 kts, it's not because you are 100kg you will be able to extend that wing up to 30 kts, the reason is at 23 kts the wing become instable and flap a lot and this is the limit of the wing regardless your weight. Not sure everyone agree but certainly a good observation from him.


Thanks a lot NordRoi! Good to hear how the different disciplines compare!
I received today my Takoon Comet . 105 L. I still go back and forward in my mind whether the 105 or 120L was best choice. I guess I'll see on the water. The wing is on its way 6m. As for the foil I've decided to give a first try with the current M wing. A friend of mine has a nice Moses with w1100 wing, so I have foils to compare before digging deep into the pocket.

I have to say the weather in Estonia is colder now, yesterday windfoiling in 4 degrees celsius, and I realized that learning a new watersport in weather that will become only colder is going to be a challenge. But perhaps the cold will really force me to not fall!

CoreAS
277 posts
Tuesday , 20 Oct 2020 5:53AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Nov8 said..
I'm also a beginner, never wing foiled before. 85kg, 180cm tall. I've just purchased new gear.

Second session on the weekend, lake with lots of chop, very gusty 12-15knots, managed to get up foiling which was exciting. My lessons learned so far:-

1/. Big is better. 125 lt board is right for me, trying to learn on anything smaller would have been a big mistake. 2000 cm2 front foil easily lifts in gusts without pumping the wing or board (I haven't quite figured out how to do this properly yet).

2/. Mast position in the tracks is critical, as is foot position and steady front foot pressure. Experimentation needed to get these things dialled.

3/. 5.3 m2 wing is about right for me. When not up on the foil the wing tips can drag in the water, so a larger wing would make this issue worse. I wouldn't bother in less than 12 knots of wind, 15 knots much easier.

4/. The knee starts aren't great for my old knees, so I get straight to my feet. Slide onto stomach, wing leading edge next to the board. One hand on board, one hand on leading edge, stand straight up. Adjust foot position carefully, let the board settle, then lift the wing quickly and go.

5/. If it is windy enough you will go upwind without trying.

6/. Wear a helmet and impact vest while learning. I attach my board leash to a waist belt, and my wing leash to my wrist which works well for me.

7/. When you start falling just let it happen. Let go of the wing, and fall away from the board. Don't kick your shins on the foil when remounting


For a complete beginner this is the best post I have ever read, you are absolutely spot on with your equipment choice in relation to YOUR local conditions, your weight and ability etc. Nice job




Subscribe
Reply

Forums > Wind Wings General


"First time buyer's advice on board volume, wing size, and (hydrofoil) frontwing size" started by MProject04