Forums > Windsurfing Foiling

Cross threaded the SS tuttle head

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Created by MagicRide A week ago, 12 Feb 2020
MagicRide
304 posts
12 Feb 2020 12:16PM
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It was a nice day today to go for my first foil session, until I cross threaded the SS tuttle head. Cannot believe I did that. I was ever so careful with all the components and it still happend. I blame it on the grease! It all assembled nice n easy before without the grease. When the grease was added, it gave me a false sense of feeling threading the bolt which lead to cross threading. I'm not greasing the tuttle screws anymore. I'll grease the rest of the screws, but not taking a chance on cross threading the tuttle head again. Called my shop and they are sending a new one. Has anyone had issues with this?

Windbot
119 posts
12 Feb 2020 2:05PM
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Sounds like bad luck, those are burly bolts, especially the top ones. When I started with my SS setup the guy who sold it to me advised me to tilt heads of the foil bolts back a bit towards the tail of the board before threading them. If the shop ends up failing to deliver call Slingshot, I have found them to be super responsive.

MagicRide
304 posts
12 Feb 2020 2:22PM
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Windbot said..
Sounds like bad luck, those are burly bolts, especially the top ones. When I started with my SS setup the guy who sold it to me advised me to tilt heads of the foil bolts back a bit towards the tail of the board before threading them. If the shop ends up failing to deliver call Slingshot, I have found them to be super responsive.


Bad luck sounds about right to me. My shop is sending a new tuttle head in the morning. This will be my third SS tuttle head. The first tuttle head that came with the kit didn't line up correctly on the mast for the bolts to thread. Delt with slingshot on that issue and they sent me a new tuttle head. Now this problem makes me on my 3rd one. Third times the charm they say!!

AUS 808
WA, 233 posts
12 Feb 2020 5:20PM
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Can you run a tap down it to restore the thread or is it buggered. If so you could drill & tap to the next size up & or fit a hellicoil. Hellicoils are usually st st so you would have a better thread but need grease when st st to st st.

lakeeffect
49 posts
12 Feb 2020 9:16PM
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On my SS foil there is no lead-in chamfers on the bolt holes or there so small you can't see them. Lead- in chamfers help prevent cross threading. What I do is turn the bolts counterclockwise until I can feel the beginning threads pass each other and drop down into each other. Then I turn the bolt clockwise to tighten. So far I've been lucky and haven't stripped a bolt. Hope this helps!

Paducah
754 posts
12 Feb 2020 11:33PM
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MagicRide said..



Windbot said..
Sounds like bad luck, those are burly bolts, especially the top ones. When I started with my SS setup the guy who sold it to me advised me to tilt heads of the foil bolts back a bit towards the tail of the board before threading them. If the shop ends up failing to deliver call Slingshot, I have found them to be super responsive.





Bad luck sounds about right to me. My shop is sending a new tuttle head in the morning. This will be my third SS tuttle head. The first tuttle head that came with the kit didn't line up correctly on the mast for the bolts to thread. Delt with slingshot on that issue and they sent me a new tuttle head. Now this problem makes me on my 3rd one. Third times the charm they say!!




woah.... Are you on a Slingshot board? Asking because the chance of misalignment goes up when mixing brands (but doesn't go away within the same brand).

In any case, it's not unusual for Tuttle screws not to line up exactly with the head. This is one good benefit of barrel nuts being commonly used. The thick tails of foil boards makes this problem worse especially if the screws are coming all the way from the deck. It's not unusual to use a round file or drill to ovalize the holes on the deck and I think Starboard has begun to do this from the factory. I've even had to make room in a couple of foil heads to sort them out.

The holes can be as little as a mm or two out of synch and it'll matter.
As always, use online translators if your French is like mine.
marseille.glissattitude.com/blog/windfoil-salade-insert.html

+1 on the suggestion to turn the screw backwards by hand until you feel the screw drop into the thread and then advance by hand to make sure it's going in easily rather than cutting threads. Grease is not the problem. It should actually make it easier to thread in by hand so you know you have it properly.

For anyone banging up the threads at the start of a barrel nut, you can often just remove it and thread in the screw from the opposite side to refresh the threads.

Edit: some confusing things in first paragraphs

MagicRide
304 posts
13 Feb 2020 3:11AM
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Some good advice here. I do have a slingshot Dialer board. So I noticed when the grease is on the bolts, I have more friction when threading, because there is goop on the threads taking up more space to thread. Perhaps, I put too much grease on?

boardsurfr
WA, 992 posts
13 Feb 2020 5:06AM
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I never grease the tuttle head bolts since I take them out after each session, anyway. When I fully disassemble the foil every few weeks, I may put a bit of grease on the bolts and thread them into the tuttle head directly (without the board in the middle) to get some grease into the threads. I'm using an old slalom board so I had to drill the holes larger just to get the screws in. The screws are not perfectly centered in the holes, so the holes are a bit larger than minimum size, which seams to help getting things aligned.

MagicRide
304 posts
13 Feb 2020 5:48AM
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Should I drill a slightly larger hole in the tuttle box to allow more room? Is there anything I need to know or be concerned about if I do this?

segler
278 posts
13 Feb 2020 5:51AM
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I don't know whether the OP used a screwdriver or power driver to start the screws. However, a lesson learned for all of us going forward:

Start the screws BY HAND with no tool at all. That way you can GENTLY get them wiggled and started into the hole thread. If you can't turn it by hand with no tool, then something is wrong Then, and only then, after the screw has made a good start with a couple easy turns, do you use a hand tool to finish the job. Leave the power tools at home.

In my old finning days, I used to see guys using power drivers on fin screws. One guy decided to stop doing that after he screwed a screw all the way through the board and also cracked the fin below the barrel nut. Ouch.

WillyWind
7 posts
13 Feb 2020 6:17AM
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MagicRide said..
Should I drill a slightly larger hole in the tuttle box to allow more room? Is there anything I need to know or be concerned about if I do this?


I drilled the fin box holes with a 10 mm in an old board with 8 mm holes. I saw through the holes the innegra (or whatever the ice cream cone looking thing is called). I do not know if that material is water tight so I drilled the holes a little bit bigger and put epoxy with thickener; I sanded that and now I have holes that are watertight. Unless someone has tried drilling out those holes, I would call Slingshot to confirm if I were you otherwise, enlarging the holes just a tiny bit with a file might be enough.

MagicRide
304 posts
13 Feb 2020 12:34PM
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segler said..
I don't know whether the OP used a screwdriver or power driver to start the screws. However, a lesson learned for all of us going forward:

Start the screws BY HAND with no tool at all. That way you can GENTLY get them wiggled and started into the hole thread. If you can't turn it by hand with no tool, then something is wrong Then, and only then, after the screw has made a good start with a couple easy turns, do you use a hand tool to finish the job. Leave the power tools at home.

In my old finning days, I used to see guys using power drivers on fin screws. One guy decided to stop doing that after he screwed a screw all the way through the board and also cracked the fin below the barrel nut. Ouch.


How do I thread the tuttle bolt screws by hand when my fingers don't fit in the tiny opening to hand thread? I used the Allen wrench key to thread the bolts, no power driver. All the other bolts on the kit can be started by hand but not the tuttle bolts that connect tuttle head to board.

MagicRide
304 posts
13 Feb 2020 12:37PM
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Drilling a brand new board's tuttle box to be larger in bolt diameter now is just not sitting right with me. With the cost of all this gear, it should all fit uniform ready to sail. Hope for the best this time, but if I have further issues, I think I'll consult with slingshot so It's on record. Based on all I've had go wrong so far, I believe some more r&d is needed. As a reminder to us all, this foil gear is so much more delicate than finning gear. I'm hoping I'm not wasting all my money on this foil gear for a product that's not going to hold up. But I'm getting rather frustrated with my foil gear and haven't even hit the water yet for my first foil session. Let's hope all this is worth learning to foil.

Paducah
754 posts
13 Feb 2020 2:44PM
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You won't be drilling new or bigger holes, merely ovalizing the existing hole by a mm or 2. If this is actually even the issue. My boards are custom and have ovalized holes. No biggie compared to the big bites on the nose.

Gently use the hex key between your fingers like you are cracking a safe. Get a longer shafted hex key so that you can twirl it like rolling a pencil between the fingers (assuming you aren't already doing all this). With the long end of a decent sized hex key, you can torque a screw much harder than you would with a screw driver so don't crank anything until you are comfortable it's actually in the threads.

Once everything is set up, you'll be set for a long time. Then, it's just falling a lot for the next three months....

Yeah, it's worth it. Once you are up in the air and it gets quiet, it'll absolutely be worth it.

segler
278 posts
13 Feb 2020 2:48PM
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I need to try to answer MagicRide's question. For the 35-odd years I have been windsurfing then windfoiling, I have always pushed a fin or foil into the finbox. If it was deep tuttle, I rocked it fore and aft a couple times to get it seated, or nearly seated.

Then I take the first screw, push it into the hole, jiggle it around gently until it finds the threaded hole, then spin it with my fingers a good couple-three turns. Same thing for the second screw. If things are lined up, and the threads are clean/not damaged, this finger turning is very easy.

Only then do I grab my screwdriver or nutdriver and tighten the screws on down--by hand. Never with a power tool.

MagicRide said: "All the other bolts on the kit can be started by hand but not the tuttle bolts that connect tuttle head to board."

If that is true, then there is something wrong with alignment or thread damage or cleanliness or something. If you can't start the screws with your fingers, something is wrong. You have to find and fix that problem. If you have to use a tool to start the spinning, you are asking for trouble in the form of cross-threading.

MagicRide
304 posts
13 Feb 2020 8:12PM
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segler said..
I need to try to answer MagicRide's question. For the 35-odd years I have been windsurfing then windfoiling, I have always pushed a fin or foil into the finbox. If it was deep tuttle, I rocked it fore and aft a couple times to get it seated, or nearly seated.

Then I take the first screw, push it into the hole, jiggle it around gently until it finds the threaded hole, then spin it with my fingers a good couple-three turns. Same thing for the second screw. If things are lined up, and the threads are clean/not damaged, this finger turning is very easy.

Only then do I grab my screwdriver or nutdriver and tighten the screws on down--by hand. Never with a power tool.

MagicRide said: "All the other bolts on the kit can be started by hand but not the tuttle bolts that connect tuttle head to board."

If that is true, then there is something wrong with alignment or thread damage or cleanliness or something. If you can't start the screws with your fingers, something is wrong. You have to find and fix that problem. If you have to use a tool to start the spinning, you are asking for trouble in the form of cross-threading.



Yep, I used the Allen wrench tool to start the spinning only on those tuttle bolts connecting foil to board because I couldn't get my fingers inside the hole to hand thread first. I will try again and see if my fingers can get in their to spin the bolts again, but it seemed pretty tight the first time to move my fingers around in that hole. This may sound stupid, but maybe there's a technique to this I will figure out.

Paducah
754 posts
13 Feb 2020 10:41PM
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MagicRide said..

segler said..
I need to try to answer MagicRide's question. For the 35-odd years I have been windsurfing then windfoiling, I have always pushed a fin or foil into the finbox. If it was deep tuttle, I rocked it fore and aft a couple times to get it seated, or nearly seated.

Then I take the first screw, push it into the hole, jiggle it around gently until it finds the threaded hole, then spin it with my fingers a good couple-three turns. Same thing for the second screw. If things are lined up, and the threads are clean/not damaged, this finger turning is very easy.

Only then do I grab my screwdriver or nutdriver and tighten the screws on down--by hand. Never with a power tool.

MagicRide said: "All the other bolts on the kit can be started by hand but not the tuttle bolts that connect tuttle head to board."

If that is true, then there is something wrong with alignment or thread damage or cleanliness or something. If you can't start the screws with your fingers, something is wrong. You have to find and fix that problem. If you have to use a tool to start the spinning, you are asking for trouble in the form of cross-threading.




Yep, I used the Allen wrench tool to start the spinning only on those tuttle bolts connecting foil to board because I couldn't get my fingers inside the hole to hand thread first. I will try again and see if my fingers can get in their to spin the bolts again, but it seemed pretty tight the first time to move my fingers around in that hole. This may sound stupid, but maybe there's a technique to this I will figure out.


Yes, in your defense, those screw tunnels are a PITA for that reason. You are pretty much obligated to start them with something that reaches all the way in. If you must use a tool, as I suggested, using a very light grip/fingers etc should give you a better feel if those first few turns are easy or you are cutting metal. Again, pretend you are cracking a safe on those first few turns and that you should be able to feel everything. When you turn the screw backwards at first, you should be able to feel the threads fall into place and you can begin rotating in the correct direction. If you can't feel that "drop in", that's an indication that things aren't in line.

If you have something smaller in diameter, say a smaller phillips screw driver, dowel, rod, etc that's just small enough to fit down the threaded hole without engaging the threads, you can use that to help see if the alignment is good.

If you think this is fun, imagine having barrel nuts that are a touch too loose and spin around if you hit them slightly off center with your screw. It takes about 10 minutes of: "no that's not right"/remove foil/reinsert foil/try again. A problem solved by a touch of silicon on the edge of the nut so when you get it right, it sets in place.

IT DOES GET BETTER! That's why we are all here for you. Good luck.

btw, to their credit SS have always taken care of my friends when there's a problem.

MagicRide
304 posts
13 Feb 2020 11:16PM
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Paducah said..

MagicRide said..


segler said..
I need to try to answer MagicRide's question. For the 35-odd years I have been windsurfing then windfoiling, I have always pushed a fin or foil into the finbox. If it was deep tuttle, I rocked it fore and aft a couple times to get it seated, or nearly seated.

Then I take the first screw, push it into the hole, jiggle it around gently until it finds the threaded hole, then spin it with my fingers a good couple-three turns. Same thing for the second screw. If things are lined up, and the threads are clean/not damaged, this finger turning is very easy.

Only then do I grab my screwdriver or nutdriver and tighten the screws on down--by hand. Never with a power tool.

MagicRide said: "All the other bolts on the kit can be started by hand but not the tuttle bolts that connect tuttle head to board."

If that is true, then there is something wrong with alignment or thread damage or cleanliness or something. If you can't start the screws with your fingers, something is wrong. You have to find and fix that problem. If you have to use a tool to start the spinning, you are asking for trouble in the form of cross-threading.





Yep, I used the Allen wrench tool to start the spinning only on those tuttle bolts connecting foil to board because I couldn't get my fingers inside the hole to hand thread first. I will try again and see if my fingers can get in their to spin the bolts again, but it seemed pretty tight the first time to move my fingers around in that hole. This may sound stupid, but maybe there's a technique to this I will figure out.



Yes, in your defense, those screw tunnels are a PITA for that reason. You are pretty much obligated to start them with something that reaches all the way in. If you must use a tool, as I suggested, using a very light grip/fingers etc should give you a better feel if those first few turns are easy or you are cutting metal. Again, pretend you are cracking a safe on those first few turns and that you should be able to feel everything. When you turn the screw backwards at first, you should be able to feel the threads fall into place and you can begin rotating in the correct direction. If you can't feel that "drop in", that's an indication that things aren't in line.

If you have something smaller in diameter, say a smaller phillips screw driver, dowel, rod, etc that's just small enough to fit down the threaded hole without engaging the threads, you can use that to help see if the alignment is good.

If you think this is fun, imagine having barrel nuts that are a touch too loose and spin around if you hit them slightly off center with your screw. It takes about 10 minutes of: "no that's not right"/remove foil/reinsert foil/try again. A problem solved by a touch of silicon on the edge of the nut so when you get it right, it sets in place.

IT DOES GET BETTER! That's why we are all here for you. Good luck.

btw, to their credit SS have always taken care of my friends when there's a problem.


Great peace of mind here! You guys are great! I really enjoy this seabreeze site for all these helpful reasons and of course to share the fun of the sport with other fellow windfoiliers and windsurfers.

Im looking for the next decent warm day with some wind to try it all again. This time I hope to at least get my board to the water.

DB2
22 posts
14 Feb 2020 12:51AM
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Hi MagicRide!

Once you hit the water, you will instantly forget all the issues. The Slingshot-foil is a tank, I have hit a sandbank on full juice and all that happened was a few scratches on the wing. The threads are somehow a bit of a weak spot, especially the ones in the mast cap.

Just get wet and have fun

David

segler
278 posts
14 Feb 2020 1:55AM
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Ah yes, you keep saying about getting your fingers down inside the tunnel. I get it now. It's one of those boards with RECESSED screw tunnels on top. Here's the problem. In my opinion, a deep tuttle box with recessed screw tops is a BAD IDEA for foiling.

One day a couple summers ago a bunch of Gorgecup racers were standing around at the Event Site in Hood River looking at various boards for foiling. Those with recessed deep tuttle boxes were out, according to all those guys. There is not enough box inside the board to make large-area contact with the foam for structural strength to carry the massive cantilevering rocking forces exerted by foils. They were fine for side forces from fins, but not for foils.

What they all prefer are tall finboxes that reach all the way through the board from the bottom deck to the top deck. With these you get much larger contact bond areas inside the board to carry the cantilevering forces. Most formula boards and many big slalom boards feature these tall finboxes. With them you easily turn the screws with your fingers to get them started. Also, these let you run big fender washers on the screw tops to spread the load out over the top deck of the board.

With a recessed tunnel, the entire screw head force is carried inside the finbox itself with no help from the much reinforced top deck. Bad idea for foiling.

So, to be on the safe side, the recommendation is to stay away from boards with recessed tunnels for deep tuttle boxes. You might get lucky, but I think the tunneled boxes are too risky.

I think you will notice that all production foil-ready boards and all custom foil boards have the tall finboxes that are flush to the top deck.

MagicRide
304 posts
14 Feb 2020 4:37AM
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segler said..
Ah yes, you keep saying about getting your fingers down inside the tunnel. I get it now. It's one of those boards with RECESSED screw tunnels on top. Here's the problem. In my opinion, a deep tuttle box with recessed screw tops is a BAD IDEA for foiling.

One day a couple summers ago a bunch of Gorgecup racers were standing around at the Event Site in Hood River looking at various boards for foiling. Those with recessed deep tuttle boxes were out, according to all those guys. There is not enough box inside the board to make large-area contact with the foam for structural strength to carry the massive cantilevering rocking forces exerted by foils. They were fine for side forces from fins, but not for foils.

What they all prefer are tall finboxes that reach all the way through the board from the bottom deck to the top deck. With these you get much larger contact bond areas inside the board to carry the cantilevering forces. Most formula boards and many big slalom boards feature these tall finboxes. With them you easily turn the screws with your fingers to get them started. Also, these let you run big fender washers on the screw tops to spread the load out over the top deck of the board.

With a recessed tunnel, the entire screw head force is carried inside the finbox itself with no help from the much reinforced top deck. Bad idea for foiling.

So, to be on the safe side, the recommendation is to stay away from boards with recessed tunnels for deep tuttle boxes. You might get lucky, but I think the tunneled boxes are too risky.

I think you will notice that all production foil-ready boards and all custom foil boards have the tall finboxes that are flush to the top deck.


So are the slingshot boards with recessed tunnels?

gorgesailor
257 posts
14 Feb 2020 6:02AM
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segler said..
Ah yes, you keep saying about getting your fingers down inside the tunnel. I get it now. It's one of those boards with RECESSED screw tunnels on top. Here's the problem. In my opinion, a deep tuttle box with recessed screw tops is a BAD IDEA for foiling.

One day a couple summers ago a bunch of Gorgecup racers were standing around at the Event Site in Hood River looking at various boards for foiling. Those with recessed deep tuttle boxes were out, according to all those guys. There is not enough box inside the board to make large-area contact with the foam for structural strength to carry the massive cantilevering rocking forces exerted by foils. They were fine for side forces from fins, but not for foils.

What they all prefer are tall finboxes that reach all the way through the board from the bottom deck to the top deck. With these you get much larger contact bond areas inside the board to carry the cantilevering forces. Most formula boards and many big slalom boards feature these tall finboxes. With them you easily turn the screws with your fingers to get them started. Also, these let you run big fender washers on the screw tops to spread the load out over the top deck of the board.

With a recessed tunnel, the entire screw head force is carried inside the finbox itself with no help from the much reinforced top deck. Bad idea for foiling.

So, to be on the safe side, the recommendation is to stay away from boards with recessed tunnels for deep tuttle boxes. You might get lucky, but I think the tunneled boxes are too risky.

I think you will notice that all production foil-ready boards and all custom foil boards have the tall finboxes that are flush to the top deck.


Hmmm not sure those guys have actually seen what the box looks like? First of all the boxes with recesses do go all the way through the deck - the same as the ones without. The recesses are simply premolded into the box itself. The advantage to this is that it is not up to the builder to create the whole reinforcement for the fin bolts when he glasses over the opening - as is the case with a custom board using a non recessed box. The the floor recesses are already reinforced enough for the foiling stress(if it is a foil-ready box). Your recommendation will be hard to follow most places in the work since many Cobra built boards are using recessed boxes.

Subsonic
WA, 1878 posts
14 Feb 2020 6:47AM
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gorgesailor said..


segler said..
Ah yes, you keep saying about getting your fingers down inside the tunnel. I get it now. It's one of those boards with RECESSED screw tunnels on top. Here's the problem. In my opinion, a deep tuttle box with recessed screw tops is a BAD IDEA for foiling.

One day a couple summers ago a bunch of Gorgecup racers were standing around at the Event Site in Hood River looking at various boards for foiling. Those with recessed deep tuttle boxes were out, according to all those guys. There is not enough box inside the board to make large-area contact with the foam for structural strength to carry the massive cantilevering rocking forces exerted by foils. They were fine for side forces from fins, but not for foils.

What they all prefer are tall finboxes that reach all the way through the board from the bottom deck to the top deck. With these you get much larger contact bond areas inside the board to carry the cantilevering forces. Most formula boards and many big slalom boards feature these tall finboxes. With them you easily turn the screws with your fingers to get them started. Also, these let you run big fender washers on the screw tops to spread the load out over the top deck of the board.

With a recessed tunnel, the entire screw head force is carried inside the finbox itself with no help from the much reinforced top deck. Bad idea for foiling.

So, to be on the safe side, the recommendation is to stay away from boards with recessed tunnels for deep tuttle boxes. You might get lucky, but I think the tunneled boxes are too risky.

I think you will notice that all production foil-ready boards and all custom foil boards have the tall finboxes that are flush to the top deck.




Hmmm not sure those guys have actually seen what the box looks like? First of all the boxes with recesses do go all the way through the deck - the same as the ones without. The recesses are simply premolded into the box itself. The advantage to this is that it is not up to the builder to create the whole reinforcement for the fin bolts when he glasses over the opening - as is the case with a custom board using a non recessed box. The the floor recesses are already reinforced enough for the foiling stress(if it is a foil-ready box). Your recommendation will be hard to follow most places in the work since many Cobra built boards are using recessed boxes.



That and boards are getting fatter in the tail. The recesses become a necessity after a certain tail depth.


they are annoying though. I generally have to get the screwdriver up in there to get the spacer washers out of the recess. And there's certainly no way of hand placing the screws initially

MagicRide
304 posts
14 Feb 2020 7:51AM
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So it sounds like a lot of you have to patiently fuss with the tuttle bolts to thread them into the tuttle head, securing it to the board. So when I'm out of warranty, I may entertain the idea of tapping the hole if this happens again. Is tapping easy to do? Can I send a tap into the threads as many times as I need to if I just have a bad habit of cross threading? Can the aluminum accommodate constant re-tapping, like 4 or 5 times per year, hypothetically speaking? I have experience with tools, but haven't had an opportunity to tap.

Ian K
WA, 3140 posts
14 Feb 2020 8:37AM
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Subsonic said..





they are annoying though. I generally have to get the screwdriver up in there to get the spacer washers out of the recess. And there's certainly no way of hand placing the screws initially




Longer bolts? If not enough room below, more washers.

Subsonic
WA, 1878 posts
14 Feb 2020 9:29AM
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Ian K said..





Subsonic said..






they are annoying though. I generally have to get the screwdriver up in there to get the spacer washers out of the recess. And there's certainly no way of hand placing the screws initially





Longer bolts? If not enough room below, more washers.


Thats essentially what ive got. They're the JP chimneys with just enough space for the washers, and not much else.

Subsonic
WA, 1878 posts
14 Feb 2020 9:57AM
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MagicRide said..
So it sounds like a lot of you have to patiently fuss with the tuttle bolts to thread them into the tuttle head, securing it to the board. So when I'm out of warranty, I may entertain the idea of tapping the hole if this happens again. Is tapping easy to do? Can I send a tap into the threads as many times as I need to if I just have a bad habit of cross threading? Can the aluminum accommodate constant re-tapping, like 4 or 5 times per year, hypothetically speaking? I have experience with tools, but haven't had an opportunity to tap.



Tapping isn't hard to do at all. You can use the right size tap to tidy up the thread thats already there. If you make a habit of cross threading though, you'll not have enough material for the thread to function. It'll end up just tearing away when you go to tighten it or theres too much force.


If you're looking to go up a size then you redrill the hole to a bigger size (the inner width of the thread of the bolt you want to use) then its just a hand driven device that self locates and cuts the thread into the metal as you wind it down.

i gotta say, i think you've just suffered some bad luck. The times i've managed to cross thread a bolt, it wasn't till i was two or three turns in till i realised it wasn't right. But it few and far between that its happened.

KDog
58 posts
14 Feb 2020 10:41AM
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Lets not overthink this I don't hand thread the bolts just make sure the foil is fully in the tuttle box, flange has to be flat with the bottom of the board put the bolt with washer on the big T handle allen that slingshot supplied and thread it in you should feel if it is good on the first turn or two sung it up and put the other one in no need to over tighten them yes do lube them every so often. your old tuttle head might be able to be cleaned up with just a tap you will need a 10mm x 1.50 tap maybe $10us. Sometimes when your in a hurry to get on the water things happen.

MagicRide
304 posts
14 Feb 2020 1:21PM
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Just received the new Tuttle head and everything assembled beautifully!! The front bolt is more centered in the oval than the rear bolt is, so my finger can fit in that one better. The rear bolt is positioned more aft of the oval but in the threads. I can use the very tips of my finger to get the rear bolt started. If my fingers were any larger, I'd have a hard time finger starting the bolts. After I finger started both bolts, I took the Allen key and twirled it into the threads then grabed up on the handle to snug it up. I assembled it twice with really no issues, just patience. I didn't grease those bolts, as I need every grip with no greasy slippage on my fingers to hand start the bolts. Those bolts are the only ones on the kit I refuse to grease. All others will be greased. But one more thing. Can I get away with not greasing the bolts that attach the front i84 wing to the fuse? Or should I grease those too? I'm only in fresh water by the way. The whole foil will be disassembled after every session, except where the tuttle bolts to the mast. I will routinely check those, but they will be tight all the time. I'll loosen them occasionally then snug em up again. Actually, I'll probably keep the rear wing attached as well, loosen it and snug it up every once in a while. But everything else will be disassembled. Your ideas worked perfect!! I'm very impressed!! Problem is solved now

WillyWind
7 posts
14 Feb 2020 2:08PM
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MagicRide said..
Just received the new Tuttle head and everything assembled beautifully!! The front bolt is more centered in the oval than the rear bolt is, so my finger can fit in that one better. The rear bolt is positioned more aft of the oval but in the threads. I can use the very tips of my finger to get the rear bolt started. If my fingers were any larger, I'd have a hard time finger starting the bolts. After I finger started both bolts, I took the Allen key and twirled it into the threads then grabed up on the handle to snug it up. I assembled it twice with really no issues, just patience. I didn't grease those bolts, as I need every grip with no greasy slippage on my fingers to hand start the bolts. Those bolts are the only ones on the kit I refuse to grease. All others will be greased. But one more thing. Can I get away with not greasing the bolts that attach the front i84 wing to the fuse? Or should I grease those too? I'm only in fresh water by the way. The whole foil will be disassembled after every session, except where the tuttle bolts to the mast. I will routinely check those, but they will be tight all the time. I'll loosen them occasionally then snug em up again. Actually, I'll probably keep the rear wing attached as well, loosen it and snug it up every once in a while. But everything else will be disassembled. Your ideas worked perfect!! I'm very impressed!! Problem is solved now


I'm glad that it worked. I have the i84 as well and I use it in fresh water almost exclusively. I do not use grease or teflon on the bolts, and I only disassemble the mast from the board and the fuselage (I always leave the wings and the mast head on). In year and a half I haven't had any issues. I take things apart every three or so months when I flip the fuselage but I have not noticed any residue. But I always check for loose bolts! I am not recommending what I am doing but my experience has been very low maintenance and problem-free.

MagicRide
304 posts
14 Feb 2020 2:47PM
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WillyWind said..

MagicRide said..
Just received the new Tuttle head and everything assembled beautifully!! The front bolt is more centered in the oval than the rear bolt is, so my finger can fit in that one better. The rear bolt is positioned more aft of the oval but in the threads. I can use the very tips of my finger to get the rear bolt started. If my fingers were any larger, I'd have a hard time finger starting the bolts. After I finger started both bolts, I took the Allen key and twirled it into the threads then grabed up on the handle to snug it up. I assembled it twice with really no issues, just patience. I didn't grease those bolts, as I need every grip with no greasy slippage on my fingers to hand start the bolts. Those bolts are the only ones on the kit I refuse to grease. All others will be greased. But one more thing. Can I get away with not greasing the bolts that attach the front i84 wing to the fuse? Or should I grease those too? I'm only in fresh water by the way. The whole foil will be disassembled after every session, except where the tuttle bolts to the mast. I will routinely check those, but they will be tight all the time. I'll loosen them occasionally then snug em up again. Actually, I'll probably keep the rear wing attached as well, loosen it and snug it up every once in a while. But everything else will be disassembled. Your ideas worked perfect!! I'm very impressed!! Problem is solved now



I'm glad that it worked. I have the i84 as well and I use it in fresh water almost exclusively. I do not use grease or teflon on the bolts, and I only disassemble the mast from the board and the fuselage (I always leave the wings and the mast head on). In year and a half I haven't had any issues. I take things apart every three or so months when I flip the fuselage but I have not noticed any residue. But I always check for loose bolts! I am not recommending what I am doing but my experience has been very low maintenance and problem-free.


That's great to hear from your experiences! I feel I'm through with the hurdles of setting the foil up. I'm just allowing more time, patience and not to rush the assembly process. I'm realizing that's key to properly setting the foil up. I guess I'm just used to the windsurfing setup process, where I can speed through the setup with no issues and get on the water fast. I realize the foiling setup takes more time to assemble and the delicate threads don't help to speed up the process any. Can't wait to give it a go!!



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"Cross threaded the SS tuttle head" started by MagicRide