Forums > Windsurfing Foiling

Down-winding & wave-riding foil setups

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Created by azymuth 5 months ago, 4 Jun 2018
azymuth
WA, 483 posts
4 Jun 2018 11:18AM
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Curious to see what windfoil setups are being used to optimise down-winding & wave-riding.

e.g. - has anyone experimented with swapping out the Naish WS1 wings with the Surf wings, to maximize maneuverability?

stroppo
WA, 454 posts
4 Jun 2018 8:24PM
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You are the pioneer JJ

WhiteofHeart
18 posts
5 Jun 2018 8:29PM
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I don't really foil at sea, but I do foil with small sails (4.0/3.6 foil Lok?foil Envol) in 25+ knots of wind an use the windwaves to ride on with succes! For this I use a custom board 70cmx180cm with the mastbase starting 80cm from the front finscrew, so that would be about 100cm from the tail. With my mastbase at 105cm I have the freedom to sail with my backfoot out of the strap at all times (just use it for jumping and porrrr upwind). I can put the foot on the opposite rail in the topturn and back on the luffside rail in the bottomturn. I really like this config, because it really opens up the manouvrebility. Maybe try riding the naish foil all the way forward in the rail and your mastbase all the way aft sometime! The closer everything is together the smaller the turns you can make. It might feel a little unstable / nervous at the beginning, but after getting used to it it's great.

I found waveriding on the foil actually quite natural, because carving hard off the backfoot to steer st the wave makes the nose go up, and carving down naturally makes the nose go down.

Paducah
192 posts
5 Jun 2018 10:16PM
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reefwarriors.wordpress.com/2017/11/19/red-barron-vid/

btw, this is not on the ocean but on one of the US Great Lakes

azymuth
WA, 483 posts
5 Jun 2018 10:39PM
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Paducah said..
reefwarriors.wordpress.com/2017/11/19/red-barron-vid/

btw, this is not on the ocean but on one of the US Great Lakes




Awesome video, thanks

Had the same experience of letting the sail flap like a flag and just riding the swells - super fun

I like my feet secure in straps - close to the centre-line.

azymuth
WA, 483 posts
21 Jun 2018 9:54AM
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stroppo said..
You are the pioneer JJ



Not quite - here's a nice little vid of Giampaolo in Maui

Maddlad
WA, 284 posts
21 Jun 2018 11:00AM
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I wanna know how such a small surface area like a foil can catch waves...

Paducah
192 posts
21 Jun 2018 7:52PM
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Maddlad said..
I wanna know how such a small surface area like a foil can catch waves...


That's actually a pretty big foil (Gofoil Maliko 200) and sea water is 800 times denser than air.

gofoil.com/maliko-200/ The wing is 90cm wide

azymuth
WA, 483 posts
18 Jul 2018 9:17AM
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Maddlad said..
I wanna know how such a small surface area like a foil can catch waves...



I'd like to understand the physics too. A regular surfboard is reacting to gravitational force - but a foil under the water?
Same thing I guess but certainly not as obvious. I'd be interested to hear other's opinions.

Whatever, it works - had awesome rides yesterday (backside only - too onshore for DTL).

Perfect waist-high gentle waves starting half a km out and reforming all the way to the beach with a nice 15 knot breeze.

The Naish WS1 foil is awesome but curious if anyone has tried the Surf foil?




Paducah
192 posts
19 Jul 2018 12:25AM
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Just because the foil is under water, it doesn't change the physics. Sliding downhill from peak to trough at the surface or 30 cm under the surface is pretty much the same. The advantage of the foil is that it "slides" easier than a planing board (at low speeds), so it takes less incline to keep going which is why foil surfers can take advantage of otherwise crappy waves.

azymuth
WA, 483 posts
9 Aug 2018 9:38AM
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I tested the 2019 Naish Large Thrust Surf front wing with my wind-foil in a choppy ocean with 1-2m swells and a cold 18-25 knot NW'er.

More wind than ideal but it handled it well - cruised along quite easily even in the bigger gusts. It felt a little more secure in the turns that the WS1 WindFoil front wing and speed was good at about 19 knots without pushing it - perhaps a knot or two slower than the WS1.

The waves were too messy for any serious attempt at waveriding but down-winding the swells was super controllable and too much fun - as it is on the WS1 foil

Couldn't test the light wind take-off speed yesterday in the strong winds, but my guess is that both wings would be the same - for me about 10 knots.

I've no idea how well it goes on a surfboard or SUP but if you wanted to buy just one wing it might be a great choice, given that it wind-foils so well.

Used with Isonic 121 (75cm wide) and 5m wave sail.

Thanks to Daniel at Windsurfing Perth for the loan





Cluffy
NSW, 325 posts
10 Aug 2018 8:50AM
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Swells have mass and kinetic energy so it's not just sliding down a slope you are harnessing the energy of the wave right? Some of that energy is hitting the bottom side of the foil and giving you a shove. It's like dinghy racing on a reach behind a faster boat. Get in it's wash and let them suck you along for a while. While overtaking a fellow windsurfer from close behind, use his wash to give you a quick blast upwind before you roll him. Even small wake has some sort of energy you can use.

azymuth
WA, 483 posts
10 Aug 2018 11:32AM
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Wave energy is super interesting - we've got the gurus across the road from me here in Freo.

I'm not sure how the physics works but I can definitely feel the foil "pick up" the energy from even a tiny ocean swell and accelerate forward.


Carnegie Clean Energy

JB
NSW, 1904 posts
Site Sponsor
10 Aug 2018 2:39PM
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azymuth said..
I tested the 2019 Naish Large Thrust Surf front wing with my wind-foil in a choppy ocean with 1-2m swells and a cold 18-25 knot NW'er.

More wind than ideal but it handled it well - cruised along quite easily even in the bigger gusts. It felt a little more secure in the turns that the WS1 WindFoil front wing and speed was good at about 19 knots without pushing it - perhaps a knot or two slower than the WS1.

The waves were too messy for any serious attempt at waveriding but down-winding the swells was super controllable and too much fun - as it is on the WS1 foil

Couldn't test the light wind take-off speed yesterday in the strong winds, but my guess is that both wings would be the same - for me about 10 knots.

I've no idea how well it goes on a surfboard or SUP but if you wanted to buy just one wing it might be a great choice, given that it wind-foils so well.

Used with Isonic 121 (75cm wide) and 5m wave sail.

Thanks to Daniel at Windsurfing Perth for the loan






In many opinions the Thrust Surf Large wing is probably the most universal wing around. I personally enjoy, SUP, Surf, Wind and Kite on this one wing. It's shape is designed to give maximum stability during turns and provide predictable lift and smooth glide.

Differences between the WS1 and Surf Large are in some ways big, but others not.

The Surf Large is significantly thicker in profile. This is great for surfing and riding swells as you can maintain a consistent speed and not shoot out in front of the swell when you get a sudden boost of power. It is also extremely stable at slow speeds and will willingly change angle and trajectory with ease. Given it have the same projected are of the WS1, it will technically go roughly about as early as the WS1, however I do find personally the WS1 will travel naturally quicker at all times thus producing great apparent wind. Jibing the Surf is super easy (but the reality is so it the WS1). I guess the long and the short of it is, the Surf Large is more forgiving and smoother for maneuvering at the cost of some efficiency and added drag.

The WS1 is a lot more streamline then the Surf wings, and a much flatter plane shape, therefore it is more efficient. The gull like (or double concave) plan makes the wing very stable and somewhat self-righting. The wing generally wants to fly flat which is great for general windsurfing, and as it gathers speed it continues to get more and more stable. The flat shape and thinner profile make the wing extremely efficient, so while it's basically the same projected area of the Surf Large, it will gather speed/accelerate faster and therefore help with generating apparent wind = faster sooner. It will also hold more speed under less power allowing you to glide through lulls easier carrying more speed. The WS1 also has an upright stabilizer on the Rear wing, which helps a lot with directional stability, coupled with the WS Fuselage, you can get a great lineal feel (much like wind surfing) unlike the looser feel of the Surf foils which mount generally further forward on the board.

Technically the WS1 should be fast in all regards and the Surf should be more willing to turn.

I hope this helps,

regards,

JB

azymuth
WA, 483 posts
13 Aug 2018 9:06PM
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JB said..

azymuth said..




In many opinions the Thrust Surf Large wing is probably the most universal wing around. I personally enjoy, SUP, Surf, Wind and Kite on this one wing. It's shape is designed to give maximum stability during turns and provide predictable lift and smooth glide.

Differences between the WS1 and Surf Large are in some ways big, but others not.

The Surf Large is significantly thicker in profile. This is great for surfing and riding swells as you can maintain a consistent speed and not shoot out in front of the swell when you get a sudden boost of power. It is also extremely stable at slow speeds and will willingly change angle and trajectory with ease. Given it have the same projected are of the WS1, it will technically go roughly about as early as the WS1, however I do find personally the WS1 will travel naturally quicker at all times thus producing great apparent wind. Jibing the Surf is super easy (but the reality is so it the WS1). I guess the long and the short of it is, the Surf Large is more forgiving and smoother for maneuvering at the cost of some efficiency and added drag.

The WS1 is a lot more streamline then the Surf wings, and a much flatter plane shape, therefore it is more efficient. The gull like (or double concave) plan makes the wing very stable and somewhat self-righting. The wing generally wants to fly flat which is great for general windsurfing, and as it gathers speed it continues to get more and more stable. The flat shape and thinner profile make the wing extremely efficient, so while it's basically the same projected area of the Surf Large, it will gather speed/accelerate faster and therefore help with generating apparent wind = faster sooner. It will also hold more speed under less power allowing you to glide through lulls easier carrying more speed. The WS1 also has an upright stabilizer on the Rear wing, which helps a lot with directional stability, coupled with the WS Fuselage, you can get a great lineal feel (much like wind surfing) unlike the looser feel of the Surf foils which mount generally further forward on the board.

Technically the WS1 should be fast in all regards and the Surf should be more willing to turn.

I hope this helps,

regards,

JB



Thanks for the detailed info - pretty much confirms what I've been finding

Had an awesome session using the Naish Medium Thrust Surf Wing today (with the WS1 stabilizer) in 15-20 knots.
Amazing downwinding meter-high swells. It's a bit more planted and carves a little better on the wave than the WS1 front wing.
The WS1 is a little faster and changes direction quicker - and handles strong wind super well for a big wing.

Not really much between the Surf and the WS1 (when windfoiling) - both awesome fun.

I'd like to try the Surf wing with the Surf stabilizer next.

azymuth
WA, 483 posts
11 Sep 2018 9:58AM
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Windfoil downwinding. Ride the swells in a way that's impossible with conventional wave & slalom boards which have too much drag to stay on the swells going deep downwind.

A big advantage over SUP downwind foiling is that it's so easy to get back upwind to do it all over again.
Although SUP downwinding would be cool too.


Interested hearing from others into downwinding and the gear you're using.

Yesterday, 18-24 WNW medium swell (1m faces) 5.3 wavesail (4.5 would've been better) Naish Med Surf wing & WS1 rear wing.

Awesome fun










barbarian
NSW, 197 posts
11 Sep 2018 10:09PM
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JB, have you tried using the Naish Thrust ws wing on the sup as a surf foil? Could you surf with it?

azymuth
WA, 483 posts
11 Sep 2018 8:13PM
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Thanks - interesting info on your blog and cool vids. Stoked that others are into windfoiling waves and downwinding.

Tried riding waves strapless but much prefer straps (I'm rigging quite powered up to suit my smallish foil), have both front and rears close to the center of the board.

Your "Top Gun" foil board looks cool - what are the features that make it perfect for you?

ReefWarriors
12 posts
12 Sep 2018 1:06AM
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The "Top Gun" Foil board is pretty special, I am having a hard time keeping that under wraps. I have been developing that board for 2 years now. Its a %100 dedicated foil board. super stable, perfectly balanced, gets flying so easy, and loses zero speed in touch downs. It will do all wave foil discipline's WWF, Sup foil, and DW foil, even wind foiling flatwater freeriding is crazy fun on it. It is a strapless board because the bigger hi lift surf foils I designed it for (aka Go Foils) you have to move your feet, just like surfing. I will be posting a little more info about this board in the next few months.

jimbob SA
SA, 896 posts
12 Sep 2018 9:50AM
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barbarian said..
JB, have you tried using the Naish Thrust ws wing on the sup as a surf foil? Could you surf with it?


Hey JB I'd like to know this too. My boys are keen to get into it.



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"Down-winding & wave-riding foil setups" started by azymuth