Forums > Windsurfing Foiling

Most on this forum will move to WW foiling

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Created by warwickl 6 months ago, 12 May 2020
warwickl
NSW, 1566 posts
12 May 2020 6:06PM
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With the rapid development in Windwings and efficiency of boards and foil wings I predict that in the next 2 to 3 years most will make the move.
Why - more affordable, versatisle and simpler fun.
Of course there will be the stubborn dedicated (was one going to kite surfing) guys who will not try but most will reap the benefits.

2keen
WA, 134 posts
12 May 2020 4:26PM
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Not me!!
and you can quote me on that

normster
NSW, 253 posts
12 May 2020 6:37PM
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I'm still trying to master the light wind foiling - so I can't see how I will foil earlier on a sling wing .... I do wonder if the sling wing and normal rig will morph closer

azymuth
WA, 1216 posts
12 May 2020 4:51PM
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warwickl said..With the rapid development in Windwings and efficiency of boards and foil wings I predict that in the next 2 to 3 years most will make the move.Why - more affordable, versatisle and simpler fun.
Of course there will be the stubborn dedicated (was one going to kite surfing) guys who will not try but most will reap the benefits.


Perhaps you can list the benefits that you see?


I'm with Simon (2keen) - no surprise I guess.
Foiling with windwings the past year - arguably windwings have a slight advantage over windfoiling when actually riding a wave, being able to park the wing and easily go either way on the wave.
We smoke them up and downwind and carve harder on windswells - happy to be proved wrong

Each to his own.
Stoked to see heaps of foilers out at Dutchies - prone, SUP, windwings, kites and windfoilers

stehsegler
WA, 3157 posts
12 May 2020 5:07PM
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Not me... I am wave sailor at heart first and foremost. Windfoiling has really given me a chance to get out not he water with my existing gear in lighter conditions getting a similar feeling.

From what I can see from next Australian summer many more brands will hit the market with more approachable windfoil gear (both foils and boards) that will bring more people to the sport.

Swindy
WA, 360 posts
12 May 2020 5:30PM
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Me neither, even if I wanted to. Screwed shoulders won't allow the overhead pumping required.
Looks to much like a boardies over wetsuit sport to me anyway.

Stretchy
WA, 645 posts
12 May 2020 5:59PM
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I'm giving it a go because you know I'm a boardies over wetsuit sort of guy Rog
I don't know if it's for me yet but it will be an interesting experiment

allesad
29 posts
12 May 2020 6:18PM
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Very Interesting prediction. At first glance I thought they were lame...now I see the value of the Wind Wing...primarily for me less gear / rigging, cargo to carry, more freedom (except for the leashes).

Question: Can we plane/foil in "less wind" with a WindWing or a Windfoil (E.g Lake with no waves, light wind, W125/ 84 or 99 wing)?
Has anyone done a back to back test?

snides8
WA, 1683 posts
12 May 2020 6:56PM
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I suspect if you added this subject 3 years ago and titled it 'most windsurfers will move to foiling' most here would say the same....
I see numerous windsurfers who swore black and blue they would never windfoil now taking it up.i find it and far more challenging than windfoil hence the fun.. it's a great side attraction to windfoiling.
. what was that SAS slogan now????

2keen
WA, 134 posts
12 May 2020 8:39PM
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As I said previously, WW is not for me.
I do however think it will boom here in the next 2 to 3 years. There will be some windsurfers pick it up but I think it's biggest pool of starters will come from kiters and surfers.
I wouldn't be surprised if you see a small number transitioning from WW to windfoiling

Stretchy
WA, 645 posts
12 May 2020 8:46PM
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more diversity in our wind+water sports is a great thing. As well as giving us more options, it grows the overall market and hopefully keeps the shops viable

Paducah
1200 posts
12 May 2020 9:49PM
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Our local wingdings presently are coming from a surfing background. We're inland with light winds most of the year. The ability to fly in 6-10 with a windurfing rig and still get home if the wind dies is a big deal. That's why, here, windsurfers have maintained numbers vs kites over the last 15 years - we don't have to swim or paddle home.

And, as a shorter guy, it would be hard to use a big enough wing for lighter summer conditions. A 6 towers over me. I was foiling yesterday in 10-23 kts with a 4.7. A 4.7 (mine rigs on a 370) isn't significantly more difficult to rig than a wing. Complete sail rigs are more expensive than wings but they are nowhere near as fragile. As less physically adept and heavier wingers (equivalents to MAMILS) hit the water, it'll be interesting how the wing gear holds up. Most of the early adapters are very fit paddlers, kiters, etc.

Windfoiling over windsurfing came with very clear advantages. Similar skill set but widens the performance envelope and means more days on the water rather than on the beach waiting for it to blow enough. The wing advantages aren't as clear cut for our use case. In fact, it'll be interesting to see if any wingers, coming from surf, decide to plug a sail mast into their board for the low end.

Having said that, I have predicted the premier US east coast wind sport location will be significantly wingfoil in three years and I think most of that growth will come from kites on the low wind side of things.

simonp123
54 posts
12 May 2020 9:55PM
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I think the biggest problem with windfoiling is getting your gear out through a large shore break before you can sail in waves. I imagine it's much easier with a wing where you can just concentrate on the board and foil while the wing stays at the end of the leash. That's why I'll probably get into wing foiling.

boardsurfr
WA, 1160 posts
12 May 2020 10:19PM
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warwickl said..
Why - more affordable, versatisle and simpler fun.


Depends where you're coming from, and whether you plan to keep windsurfing. I'm using my windsurf sails for foiling, but will stop replacing the big sails when they break. So that's actually more affordable than buying a wind wing. But if someone comes from surfing or SUP, it's the other way around. I can't really imagine many kiters switching to wind wings. Some don't want to foil, and those who do can get going in less wind that wind foilers.

At places where there are many more surfers and SUPers than windsurfers, perhaps more will pick up the wind wing. But I am not sure how many of them are eager to learn two new things - foiling and handling the wing. I remember one surfer girl explaining that the part she liked most about surfing was just being out on the water and chatting while waiting for a wave. She was a decent windsurfer, but did not like windsurfing nearly as much because she missed the "social" aspect.

Grantmac
519 posts
12 May 2020 11:43PM
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That's funny. I think surfing is the least social sport I've ever tried.
Maybe we just have crappy locals.

LeeD
1929 posts
13 May 2020 12:46AM
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You are a guy!
Girls get better treatment out in the surf.
Just like girls easily hitch a ride, while you and I wait 4 hours and only gays stop to ask.

thedoor
644 posts
13 May 2020 1:57AM
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Yeah Winging will see a big increase, especially in those that do not currently kite or windsurf, but also in those that do.

One of the clear advantages of winging is the ability to fully pump the foil when on a swell, we can do this to a degree but not as easily.

I do agree with Pad though. For now the windfoil has some pretty distinct advantages over winging. Eg schlogging to the windline and getting home when the wind dies (non-foiling) and when on the foil I believe windfoilers have a light wind advantage.

Windbot
245 posts
13 May 2020 2:57AM
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I sail sideshore lake-like conditions that are typically light. When I see a wingfoils setup that can match or exceed the lightwind performance of my setup I will consider it. I once said I would never kite, then spent 15 years at it once the technology matured with four-line kites. Never say never, but I feel right now wingfoiling is where kiting was in about 2001.

thedoor
644 posts
13 May 2020 3:53AM
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Windbot said..
I sail sideshore lake-like conditions that are typically light. When I see a wingfoils setup that can match or exceed the lightwind performance of my setup I will consider it. I once said I would never kite, then spent 15 years at it once the technology matured with four-line kites. Never say never, but I feel right now wingfoiling is where kiting was in about 2001.


Yes wingfoiling has lots of room for development, but comparing it to kiting in 2001 is a very low blow.

The whole wingfoiling thing does make me ponder why people switch. I have always admired the people that stuck with WS during the kite heyday (I didn't). I am glass half empty guy so kiting made me focus on the perceived negatives of WS (eg schlogging). Glass half full guy says "need to schlog? Great, I need to work on my non planning tacking and gybing to help my wave sailing"

My current theory, is that if there is considerable overlap between the new thing that looks cool and the old thing that you love, then just stick with what you love. Surfer going to wingfoil = big upgrade in ability ride, Windfoiler going to wingfoiler = to be determined

Variety is cool though. Unfortunately, i find that I tend to just do what I am most interested nearly exclusively if the overlap is large. My initial goal 20 years ago was to kite when it was light and WS when it was honking, but I actually went 9 years without windsurfing. After WSing for the first time in 9 years on rental gear in Europe in 2009, I decided to WS and kite, but I have only kited once since then. Seems like the same thing is happening with windfoiling, but I am trying to keep the WS in the mix more this time

Windbot
245 posts
13 May 2020 4:08AM
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Haha, it wasn't meant to be a low blow, in fact I see so much potential in wingfoiling and suspect that in a few years I will be doing it once it has its breakthrough moment for lightwind. Already I see that manufacturers are recognizing a 5m won't cut it for light wind so they are on the right track.

thedoor
644 posts
13 May 2020 4:16AM
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Windbot said..
Haha, it wasn't meant to be a low blow, in fact I see so much potential in wingfoiling and suspect that in a few years I will be doing it once it has its breakthrough moment for lightwind. Already I see that manufacturers are recognizing a 5m won't cut it for light wind so they are on the right track.


Yeah sitting things out as they develop is never a bad idea, as you tend to get some pretty shoddy gear that is brought to the market too soon. At least wingfoiling is starting with the foils already well developed and the boards being brought over from sup foiling seem to fit the bill.

PS: Nobody should have been kiting on gear pre 2003. The early adopters really got punished but I guess without them things wouldn't have progressed

Paducah
1200 posts
13 May 2020 4:46AM
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Windbot said..
...Already I see that manufacturers are recognizing a 5m won't cut it for light wind so they are on the right track.


But I was told I only needed a 4m2 Meanwhile, we were all noticing heaps of whitecaps in the background of the early videos.

0:26

MagicRide
546 posts
13 May 2020 4:55AM
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I have no interest in the Sling Wing or wing foiling! I'm already invested in Wind Foiling and traditional windsurfing. Sorry!

WhiteofHeart
464 posts
13 May 2020 4:58AM
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snides8 said..
I suspect if you added this subject 3 years ago and titled it 'most windsurfers will move to foiling' most here would say the same....
I see numerous windsurfers who swore black and blue they would never windfoil now taking it up.i find it and far more challenging than windfoil hence the fun.. it's a great side attraction to windfoiling.
. what was that SAS slogan now????





Funny, I learned to fly jibes with my F-One Swing in 3 sessions, planed through tacks in 4 and practically haven't done it since because there's not much of a challenge in it for me. Also, my windfoil cant even go as slow as a maxed out wingfoil... Jumping is laborious because of the slow speeds and huge / heavy foilwings.

I do not have access to huge rolling swells close by, maybe that might change my opinion.

Windbot
245 posts
13 May 2020 5:14AM
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Yes exactly Paducah. Robby and I have a very different ideas about "all you need". I still haven't forgotten his video where he was windfoiling one-handed with I believe it was a 4.2. I would be lucky to get one day a year with a 4.2 as my biggest sail. Fool me once...

kiter49
84 posts
13 May 2020 5:32AM
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WhiteofHeart said..

snides8 said..
I suspect if you added this subject 3 years ago and titled it 'most windsurfers will move to foiling' most here would say the same....
I see numerous windsurfers who swore black and blue they would never windfoil now taking it up.i find it and far more challenging than windfoil hence the fun.. it's a great side attraction to windfoiling.
. what was that SAS slogan now????






Funny, I learned to fly jibes with my F-One Swing in 3 sessions, planed through tacks in 4 and practically haven't done it since because there's not much of a challenge in it for me. Also, my windfoil cant even go as slow as a maxed out wingfoil... Jumping is laborious because of the slow speeds and huge / heavy foilwings.

I do not have access to huge rolling swells close by, maybe that might change my opinion.


May be if the new material Aluula that Ocean Rodeo are using this year for their kites is used for the wingfoils it could help with their weight , it cuts the weight by a good margin for the main strut and this material is supposed to be more reliable . For the moment the wings are at their very beginning and are far from a good windsurf sail in term of performance and quality .

Paducah
1200 posts
13 May 2020 6:12AM
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kiter49 said..

May be if the new material Aluula that Ocean Rodeo are using this year for their kites is used for the wingfoils it could help with their weight , it cuts the weight by a good margin for the main strut and this material is supposed to be more reliable . For the moment the wings are at their very beginning and are far from a good windsurf sail in term of performance and quality .


It'll certainly help you foil sooner by lightening your wallet significantly. Looks like Aluula kites are 50% more than their normal kite.
example: www.eastcoastkitesurfing.com.au/kites/

If I'm having to pay $1200 US for a wing, I'm going to be windfoiling for quite some time.

What will be interesting is when the cheap Asian wings make it to the big box stores who can sell it next to their cheap paddle boards. Most of those will never foil but it's an interesting gateway.

snides8
WA, 1683 posts
13 May 2020 6:15AM
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WhiteofHeart said..

snides8 said..
I suspect if you added this subject 3 years ago and titled it 'most windsurfers will move to foiling' most here would say the same....
I see numerous windsurfers who swore black and blue they would never windfoil now taking it up.i find it and far more challenging than windfoil hence the fun.. it's a great side attraction to windfoiling.
. what was that SAS slogan now????






Funny, I learned to fly jibes with my F-One Swing in 3 sessions, planed through tacks in 4 and practically haven't done it since because there's not much of a challenge in it for me. Also, my windfoil cant even go as slow as a maxed out wingfoil... Jumping is laborious because of the slow speeds and huge / heavy foilwings.

I do not have access to huge rolling swells close by, maybe that might change my opinion.


I am the first to admit I'm a slow learner and certainly don't have the skill set that most of the others on these forums do..
I did manage to fly after 1 or 2 attempts but air gybes are the challenge- finding it difficult to sail switch stance- so more practice!!

In any case I find it strange that so many can be blinkered when it comes to the different forms of a kindred sport...
I see People ridiculing others for racing Windsurfer LT or Kiting or speed or Foiling (as it was in the early days)
On that note here in WA a lot of people who said they would never foil are now starting to foil!
I look up to those who can do it all, Names like Naish, Lenny and Locally Scotty who incidentally enjoys racing his Windsurfer LT as well as charging large surf/swells down south on foil gear. These guys don't seem to want to be a 1 trick pony.

martyj4
286 posts
13 May 2020 6:32AM
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I think there will definitely be more people who move to take on windwings. Some will drop windfoiling for it and others will have a bit from column A and a bit from column B depending on their preference and conditions. The few people I've seen doing it have spent quite a lot of time learning. It does look cool.
However, I doubt I'll get into it. Am still trying to master windfoiling. Plus windwings aren't going to give me much more than what I already have for windfoiling. I windfoil in flat water and light winds. So why would I want to spend a lot of money and time trying to learn another activity with (for me) no percieved advantages over what I already have? I'll stick with Windfoiling in sub 15 knots and over that will be heading to the beach to get a wavesail in. But to those who do take windwings on, have fun. I think it's great for all windsurfing type sports to have another element that people can diversify into. It's another niche which is expanding, but I don't think it will completely supercede windfoiling.

dejavu
294 posts
13 May 2020 6:55AM
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Go to the 8:21 mark of this video:

www.instagram.com/tv/B_paA2liZXt/?igshid=ntroaicj26lq

When it comes to speed not only the sailor matters but also the foil:



Shlogger
122 posts
13 May 2020 7:17AM
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All the sports are great in their own way. I still shortboard surf, longboard surf, SUP short and long, windsurf, mostly waves, wind foil, mostly WWF style and Wing foil. As between wing and wind foiling. 1) I can still bank far harder on a wind foil strapless as I can leverage against the sail.
2) Upwind - Plain Physics, wind foil beats the wing foil upwind until that leading edge diameter is greatly reduced somehow.
3) Simplicity, weight and ease of rigging....wing takes that one.
4) Wave riding? Wind foiling I hold the mast off to the side, wing to the side or overhead. Toss up.
5) Fun. Both are fun as hell, plan to keep both in the quiver. You know....Surfer Mag once stated that windsurfing would be the end of surfing. Truth is.....it's all good. As it should be.
PS. For someone who hasn't kited or windsurfed, I think the wing is the best option to get into the sport.



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"Most on this forum will move to WW foiling" started by warwickl