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Reasons to change my windsurfing foil adapted board by a specific windfoiling one

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Created by Mucel 1 month ago, 23 May 2022
Mucel
173 posts
23 May 2022 6:46PM
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Hi
I'm thinking about changing my windsurfing freeride board in which I installed a double usbox tracks by an specific windfoiling board such as a Tabou Magic carpet 110 which would allow me to test winging in future. Which would be the main Pros/cons (regarding windfoiling):

- Main advantage could be the handle on the hull to get into the water holding both board and sail in a windsurfing way. Is it so helpful to get in and get out of a small shore break? For me the worst thing is getting out of the sea with shore break.
- I guess the biggest tail would help me to take off more easily in light wind, even the length would be smaller? This is also important
- As it's much shorter (239 vs 190 cm), it'd be more man?uvrable, too much?
- It would be easier or more difficult to get the balance on air? or to uphaul on swell? (same width and volume, 112 l, 73 cm), looking for a board with sail mast base not too far forward
- Better footstraps position, though I go strapless.

Any other differences would be interesting to know.

thanks.

utcminusfour
418 posts
23 May 2022 7:17PM
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Hey Mucel,
Yes bottom handles are good.
Wider tail and shorter is NOT always going to lead to a earlier take off.

aeroegnr
730 posts
23 May 2022 10:44PM
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I did this, going from a Blast 145 then a wizard 114.

The wizard was a good board but I was too heavy for it in light winds. I DID however, do some winging on it too. I switched it for a foilx 145 which feels much better for foiling than the Blast, with the mast track far back, the board narrower and shorter but still easy to tack in swells if I have to. And, enough volume to easy slog back. And I love the carry handle.
The shortness of the board is noticeable in air compared to my Blast or the much bigger IqFoil board. And straps are better positioned, especially in the rear, but I haven't kept the rear ones on. I'm planning on that for when I play with jumping. The Blast straps for powered up freeride were too outboard for small sail freedride foils. Felt weird to try jibing, couldve moved them inboard but that would've killed power on the fin and I hate moving straps.

If you want to try winging, I recommend renting or borrowing a friends gear. I just didn't want to wing as much as windfoil. You may love winging though. My 6.0 wing is sitting there with only a dozen sessions (or less?). You'll end up wanting a smaller board for winging and a hybrid board will have some compromise.

Mucel
173 posts
24 May 2022 7:46PM
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And the bottom handle does really help with shore break or not so much?

Paducah
1862 posts
24 May 2022 9:17PM
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My smaller foil board has a handle on the bottom. While it probably contributes some small part to it's slowness to get off the water, it's so easy to carry the board and sail around even with no shore break to contend with. It's easy to walk my gear out of the water, up the lawn and car park to my vehicle.

Sandman1221
1982 posts
24 May 2022 11:28PM
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My Goya Bolt 135 is so light and at 80 cm wide no need for a handle (I am 6' tall), just use foil mast at bottom of board as a handle along with boom in other hand. I tried a short foil board, nose kept digging into light chop, and width made it harder to get up.

Try before you buy!

Grantmac
1422 posts
25 May 2022 12:06AM
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A high wind windfoiling board with tracks works well as an intro to winging.
The bottom handle is definitely worth it and not a big issue with bigger foils.

If you aren't already it's worth ditching the rig and bringing the board in first when you have a shore break.

Mucel
173 posts
25 May 2022 1:39AM
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I have some doubts and some of your comments are in the same line:
- I only windfoil in light winds (10-15knots). A long board is better to take off in those conditions. Would a fat tail and short specif foil board take off earlier?
- Longer board easier on breaching and uphauling than a short specific one?
- My board with tracks weigh less than 9 kg. To get the same weight in a wind/wingfoiling board you have to pay for carbon

Only clear advantage of short board is manoeuvrability, high winds and winging

Any other advantages of foil specific boards regarding foil-board balance or jibes?

Sandman1221
1982 posts
25 May 2022 6:32AM
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Select to expand quote
Mucel said..
I have some doubts and some of your comments are in the same line:
- I only windfoil in light winds (10-15knots). A long board is better to take off in those conditions. Would a fat tail and short specif foil board take off earlier?
Not if it it also wider than 80 cm, more width increases drag.

- Longer board easier on breaching and uphauling than a short specific one?
Yes

- My board with tracks weigh less than 9 kg. To get the same weight in a wind/wingfoiling board you have to pay for carbon
My Goya Bolt 135 with DT foil box weighs ~7.6 kg, it is carbon.

Any other advantages of foil specific boards regarding foil-board balance or jibes?



See my comments above in your text.

I remember seeing videos with guys saying that slalom boards (used for foiling) have more swing weight than a short foil board, and they made it sound bad! But the more momentum you have going through the gybe the better, and the larger surface area increases the same ground effect that a pelican experiences when gliding close to the surface of the water. Of course you have to also keep the board close to the surface of the water to experience the ground effect.

aeroegnr
730 posts
25 May 2022 9:29AM
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Select to expand quote
Mucel said..
I have some doubts and some of your comments are in the same line:
- I only windfoil in light winds (10-15knots). A long board is better to take off in those conditions. Would a fat tail and short specif foil board take off earlier?
- Longer board easier on breaching and uphauling than a short specific one?
- My board with tracks weigh less than 9 kg. To get the same weight in a wind/wingfoiling board you have to pay for carbon

Only clear advantage of short board is manoeuvrability, high winds and winging

Any other advantages of foil specific boards regarding foil-board balance or jibes?


Foil specific boards do help early takeoff with proper pumping technique, which does take a while to coordinate and push the lower limit on.

I'm not convinced it's board length that matters for breaching as much as shape but I could be wrong. I've yet to have a serious breach that catapulted me on my shorter foilx. If the board has a chopped nose like the wizard 114 it is hard to uphaul but the foilx 145 has lots of volume in the nose. So it depends on what board.
Select to expand quote
Sandman1221 said..

I remember seeing videos with guys saying that slalom boards (used for foiling) have more swing weight than a short foil board, and they made it sound bad! But the more momentum you have going through the gybe the better, and the larger surface area increases the same ground effect that a pelican experiences when gliding close to the surface of the water. Of course you have to also keep the board close to the surface of the water to experience the ground effect.


You want speed in the jibe. Flying board=drag and windage loss. Board lift is constrained by the angle of the foil and is going to be negative when going upwind when the board nose is pushed down from being tilted with counterheel. You can feel the difference in different boards with how they react in gusts. Even between the Blast 145 and foilx 145 i felt a big difference in the nose with windage (and mast track position). They are 6cm in width apart but the foilx is much shorter.


Honestly Mucel if you can borrow a windfoil specific board to play around a bit it would be best before you decide.

John340
QLD, 2598 posts
25 May 2022 12:50PM
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Mucel said..
I have some doubts and some of your comments are in the same line:
- I only windfoil in light winds (10-15knots). A long board is better to take off in those conditions. Would a fat tail and short specif foil board take off earlier?
- Longer board easier on breaching and uphauling than a short specific one?
- My board with tracks weigh less than 9 kg. To get the same weight in a wind/wingfoiling board you have to pay for carbon

Only clear advantage of short board is manoeuvrability, high winds and winging

Any other advantages of foil specific boards regarding foil-board balance or jibes?


Sounds like you are seeking justification from the forum for a decision you have already made. If you're happy with this then by all means stay with your freeride board.

All serious windfoilers would recommend using a foil specific board. There is one notable exception on this forum other than yourself.

I learnt to foil on a slalom board but quickly move to a foil specific board. I wouldn't go back.

As has been suggested, test drive a foil board, see what it has to offer and then make an informed decision.

Sandman1221
1982 posts
25 May 2022 11:56AM
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Select to expand quote
aeroegnr said..

Mucel said..
I have some doubts and some of your comments are in the same line:
- I only windfoil in light winds (10-15knots). A long board is better to take off in those conditions. Would a fat tail and short specif foil board take off earlier?
- Longer board easier on breaching and uphauling than a short specific one?
- My board with tracks weigh less than 9 kg. To get the same weight in a wind/wingfoiling board you have to pay for carbon

Only clear advantage of short board is manoeuvrability, high winds and winging

Any other advantages of foil specific boards regarding foil-board balance or jibes?



Foil specific boards do help early takeoff with proper pumping technique, which does take a while to coordinate and push the lower limit on.

I'm not convinced it's board length that matters for breaching as much as shape but I could be wrong. I've yet to have a serious breach that catapulted me on my shorter foilx. If the board has a chopped nose like the wizard 114 it is hard to uphaul but the foilx 145 has lots of volume in the nose. So it depends on what board.

Sandman1221 said..

I remember seeing videos with guys saying that slalom boards (used for foiling) have more swing weight than a short foil board, and they made it sound bad! But the more momentum you have going through the gybe the better, and the larger surface area increases the same ground effect that a pelican experiences when gliding close to the surface of the water. Of course you have to also keep the board close to the surface of the water to experience the ground effect.



You want speed in the jibe. Flying board=drag and windage loss. Board lift is constrained by the angle of the foil and is going to be negative when going upwind when the board nose is pushed down from being tilted with counterheel. You can feel the difference in different boards with how they react in gusts. Even between the Blast 145 and foilx 145 i felt a big difference in the nose with windage (and mast track position). They are 6cm in width apart but the foilx is much shorter.


Honestly Mucel if you can borrow a windfoil specific board to play around a bit it would be best before you decide.


The SB foil boards for racing a couple of years ago were huge, and like doors to maximize the surface area, because the extra surface area increased lift from the wind getting under the board. Also larger surface area increases ground effect when the board is closer to the water, versus higher up where the wind can get under it. Win win, high or low!

Grantmac
1422 posts
25 May 2022 11:44PM
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Select to expand quote
Sandman1221 said..

aeroegnr said..


Mucel said..
I have some doubts and some of your comments are in the same line:
- I only windfoil in light winds (10-15knots). A long board is better to take off in those conditions. Would a fat tail and short specif foil board take off earlier?
- Longer board easier on breaching and uphauling than a short specific one?
- My board with tracks weigh less than 9 kg. To get the same weight in a wind/wingfoiling board you have to pay for carbon

Only clear advantage of short board is manoeuvrability, high winds and winging

Any other advantages of foil specific boards regarding foil-board balance or jibes?




Foil specific boards do help early takeoff with proper pumping technique, which does take a while to coordinate and push the lower limit on.

I'm not convinced it's board length that matters for breaching as much as shape but I could be wrong. I've yet to have a serious breach that catapulted me on my shorter foilx. If the board has a chopped nose like the wizard 114 it is hard to uphaul but the foilx 145 has lots of volume in the nose. So it depends on what board.


Sandman1221 said..

I remember seeing videos with guys saying that slalom boards (used for foiling) have more swing weight than a short foil board, and they made it sound bad! But the more momentum you have going through the gybe the better, and the larger surface area increases the same ground effect that a pelican experiences when gliding close to the surface of the water. Of course you have to also keep the board close to the surface of the water to experience the ground effect.




You want speed in the jibe. Flying board=drag and windage loss. Board lift is constrained by the angle of the foil and is going to be negative when going upwind when the board nose is pushed down from being tilted with counterheel. You can feel the difference in different boards with how they react in gusts. Even between the Blast 145 and foilx 145 i felt a big difference in the nose with windage (and mast track position). They are 6cm in width apart but the foilx is much shorter.


Honestly Mucel if you can borrow a windfoil specific board to play around a bit it would be best before you decide.



The SB foil boards for racing a couple of years ago were huge, and like doors to maximize the surface area, because the extra surface area increased lift from the wind getting under the board. Also larger surface area increases ground effect when the board is closer to the water, versus higher up where the wind can get under it. Win win, high or low!


No.

aeroegnr
730 posts
26 May 2022 12:26AM
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Select to expand quote
Grantmac said..



Sandman1221 said..




aeroegnr said..





Mucel said..
I have some doubts and some of your comments are in the same line:
- I only windfoil in light winds (10-15knots). A long board is better to take off in those conditions. Would a fat tail and short specif foil board take off earlier?
- Longer board easier on breaching and uphauling than a short specific one?
- My board with tracks weigh less than 9 kg. To get the same weight in a wind/wingfoiling board you have to pay for carbon

Only clear advantage of short board is manoeuvrability, high winds and winging

Any other advantages of foil specific boards regarding foil-board balance or jibes?







Foil specific boards do help early takeoff with proper pumping technique, which does take a while to coordinate and push the lower limit on.

I'm not convinced it's board length that matters for breaching as much as shape but I could be wrong. I've yet to have a serious breach that catapulted me on my shorter foilx. If the board has a chopped nose like the wizard 114 it is hard to uphaul but the foilx 145 has lots of volume in the nose. So it depends on what board.





Sandman1221 said..

I remember seeing videos with guys saying that slalom boards (used for foiling) have more swing weight than a short foil board, and they made it sound bad! But the more momentum you have going through the gybe the better, and the larger surface area increases the same ground effect that a pelican experiences when gliding close to the surface of the water. Of course you have to also keep the board close to the surface of the water to experience the ground effect.







You want speed in the jibe. Flying board=drag and windage loss. Board lift is constrained by the angle of the foil and is going to be negative when going upwind when the board nose is pushed down from being tilted with counterheel. You can feel the difference in different boards with how they react in gusts. Even between the Blast 145 and foilx 145 i felt a big difference in the nose with windage (and mast track position). They are 6cm in width apart but the foilx is much shorter.


Honestly Mucel if you can borrow a windfoil specific board to play around a bit it would be best before you decide.






The SB foil boards for racing a couple of years ago were huge, and like doors to maximize the surface area, because the extra surface area increased lift from the wind getting under the board. Also larger surface area increases ground effect when the board is closer to the water, versus higher up where the wind can get under it. Win win, high or low!





No.




Was going to say, it's worth reading Patrik's comments on slalom foil board design but ground effect on foil boards is minimal and unlikely compared to the negatives of more surface in air.

I still think just trying someone's board is the best way to feel it out. After a few you start noticing things. If you've only sailed one, you really can't tell how things change.

Windbot
340 posts
26 May 2022 3:57AM
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I went from an 8'2" slalom board to a 6'6" v1 Wizard, I only ride in light winds. The smaller board may get moving a tiny bit slower, but when in the air the lack of swing weight as well as the lack of a nose to spear the back of the swell in front of me make the shorter board well worthwhile. Additionally the shorter board is wider making upwind riding much easier as I can stand farther out on the upwind rail to drive upwind.

Mucel
173 posts
Friday , 24 Jun 2022 6:51PM
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Windbot said..
I went from an 8'2" slalom board to a 6'6" v1 Wizard, I only ride in light winds. The smaller board may get moving a tiny bit slower, but when in the air the lack of swing weight as well as the lack of a nose to spear the back of the swell in front of me make the shorter board well worthwhile. Additionally the shorter board is wider making upwind riding much easier as I can stand farther out on the upwind rail to drive upwind.


Thanks. Manoeuvrability on air must be much better and the handle on the hull should help a lot to carry . Uphauling would not worse much because though an specific windfoiling board is much shorter, it's also much wider in nose and tail. Besides I could also use it to learn wingfoiling.

Am I right?



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"Reasons to change my windsurfing foil adapted board by a specific windfoiling one" started by Mucel