Forums > Windsurfing Foiling

SAB Kraken

Reply
Created by ZeroVix 5 months ago, 8 Mar 2022
ZeroVix
296 posts
8 Mar 2022 11:24PM
Thumbs Up

Whoever gets the first system, please update with information.

sabfoil.com/en/news/kraken-modular-system

regal1
NSW, 347 posts
9 Mar 2022 8:10AM
Thumbs Up

Yes, unsure how to change the deep tuttle foil mast angle which now looks fixed & no course racing fuselage. Second foil manufacturer (after Lokefoil) to make much of the stuff they sold a month ago redundant.

Nikita
QLD, 128 posts
9 Mar 2022 9:31PM
Thumbs Up

The quick release system looks cool. I'd be keen to hear people's reviews of it.

LeeD
3939 posts
10 Mar 2022 1:53AM
Thumbs Up

Keep it absolutely clean, should be fine.

ZeroVix
296 posts
6 May 2022 10:32PM
Thumbs Up

Some updates on mast/tuttle connection. There are shims to adjust the mast angle on the tuttle. The tuttle head is at 1 degrees and can be adjusted from -0.5 to 2.5. Rumour is that a race fuse will be offered, but SAB hasn't confirmed it yet.

segler
WA, 1251 posts
6 May 2022 11:21PM
Thumbs Up

Too bad they did not include a crosswise bolt in the mast to fuse connection as well. The two vertical bolts are pretty much the same feature as the current SAB mast to fuse connection. M8 is nice, and those washers are nice, but I wonder whether the system will still be plagued by the issue of the front bolt working loose, which is what happens now unless you keep tightening it.

So what am I talking about? With the strong UP lifting force of the front wing, the front bolt tends to work loose. You have to keep tightening it until it is so well seated that it will stay in place. If you don't watch this it will work loose and even come completely out. I know of at least three of these bolts now lying on the bottom of the Columbia River. (One of those three is mine.)

The very thin washers provided don't really do much of a job. I have converted mine to split ring washers. I have also started wrapping the threads with teflon tape. All to prevent spinning even if it comes loose. Before I hit the water, that bolt gets checked with a 5mm hex every time.

In my opinion this is the only design flaw in an otherwise fantastic SAB foil system.

Sandman1221
2077 posts
6 May 2022 11:49PM
Thumbs Up

Saw that Alpinefoils even has a head for PB with two screws, but requires drilling a second hole through PB and board (they have a drilling guide). And now you made me wonder about the new AFS foil with removable fuselage, two screws holding it in place.

Grantmac
1488 posts
7 May 2022 12:20AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
segler said..
Too bad they did not include a crosswise bolt in the mast to fuse connection as well. The two vertical bolts are pretty much the same feature as the current SAB mast to fuse connection. M8 is nice, and those washers are nice, but I wonder whether the system will still be plagued by the issue of the front bolt working loose, which is what happens now unless you keep tightening it.

So what am I talking about? With the strong UP lifting force of the front wing, the front bolt tends to work loose. You have to keep tightening it until it is so well seated that it will stay in place. If you don't watch this it will work loose and even come completely out. I know of at least three of these bolts now lying on the bottom of the Columbia River. (One of those three is mine.)

The very thin washers provided don't really do much of a job. I have converted mine to split ring washers. I have also started wrapping the threads with teflon tape. All to prevent spinning even if it comes loose. Before I hit the water, that bolt gets checked with a 5mm hex every time.

In my opinion this is the only design flaw in an otherwise fantastic SAB foil system.


Agreed about the bottom connection, a cross bolt like Starboard really seems to lock it in although sometimes they'll have a bit less torque on the front after a sail if you don't settle it in properly.

ZeroVix
296 posts
7 May 2022 1:29AM
Thumbs Up

I would want to see the mast to fuse connection results and of course flex and torsion of the setup.

The 103 mast is 1.75kg, the plate adapter 750g. and the tuttle adapter 500g.

thedoor
1658 posts
7 May 2022 1:33AM
Thumbs Up

I thought the idea was quick release of mast to plate, but it looks like there are descending bolts from the plate to the mast?

ZeroVix
296 posts
7 May 2022 1:46AM
Thumbs Up

Quick release update.

thedoor
1658 posts
7 May 2022 4:39AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
ZeroVix said..
Quick release update.



cheers

Sandman1221
2077 posts
7 May 2022 9:36AM
Thumbs Up

I switch out wings as needed for a session, and usually 1 switch per session, so kraken system is really nice but not something I would want for now.

2keen
WA, 260 posts
23 May 2022 6:15PM
Thumbs Up

3 M8's to secure the foil to the fuse
2 M8's to secure the fuse to the mast
Am I correct that SAB Kracken then uses 2 M6's to secure the mast to the mast plate?

simonp65
39 posts
23 May 2022 7:24PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
2keen said..
3 M8's to secure the foil to the fuse
2 M8's to secure the fuse to the mast
Am I correct that SAB Kracken then uses 2 M6's to secure the mast to the mast plate?


Yes, that's correct. Shame it's M6 for the mast to mast plate but they are quite long and I haven't had an issue with them loosening like the old M6 fuse bolts.

If you get the fuse for the HA wings (w800, w1000, etc) it uses 3 M6's to connect to the foil wing.

simonp65
39 posts
23 May 2022 7:28PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
thedoor said..
I thought the idea was quick release of mast to plate, but it looks like there are descending bolts from the plate to the mast?


The two descending M6s are used when the quick release system isn't used. The quick release system needs a new component to be screwed onto the top of the mast:

sabfoil.fra1.cdn.digitaloceanspaces.com/media/brochure/manual/4jgpJEvexL7AYjvFpdaaNdheahvKh8yxa2yGq5Yq.pdf

ZeroVix
296 posts
23 May 2022 11:52PM
Thumbs Up

thedoor
1658 posts
24 May 2022 6:08AM
Thumbs Up

Its a great video. would have liked M8s too, although I popped one of those between my hoverglide mast and pedastal so nothing is guaranteed. Quick release looks sick though

regal1
NSW, 347 posts
24 May 2022 8:30AM
Thumbs Up

Engineering complexity as a benefit? What will gen2 look like?

PatK
226 posts
24 May 2022 7:29PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
regal1 said..
Engineering complexity as a benefit? What will gen2 look like?


Do not see an overengineering there. And the sacrificing anode option looks clever to me. If it works

sunsetsailboards
333 posts
1 Jun 2022 2:56AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
segler said..
Too bad they did not include a crosswise bolt in the mast to fuse connection as well. The two vertical bolts are pretty much the same feature as the current SAB mast to fuse connection. M8 is nice, and those washers are nice, but I wonder whether the system will still be plagued by the issue of the front bolt working loose, which is what happens now unless you keep tightening it.

So what am I talking about? With the strong UP lifting force of the front wing, the front bolt tends to work loose. You have to keep tightening it until it is so well seated that it will stay in place. If you don't watch this it will work loose and even come completely out. I know of at least three of these bolts now lying on the bottom of the Columbia River. (One of those three is mine.)

The very thin washers provided don't really do much of a job. I have converted mine to split ring washers. I have also started wrapping the threads with teflon tape. All to prevent spinning even if it comes loose. Before I hit the water, that bolt gets checked with a 5mm hex every time.

In my opinion this is the only design flaw in an otherwise fantastic SAB foil system.


i think part of the problem with the old system was that the mast to fuse joint was conical and hard to get sufficiently tight unless you pay close attention, and with hard riding the fuselage could continue to push up on to the mast in the front and there was a release in tension on the front M6 screw. The mast connector did not bottom out into the fuselage, so w/ hard force there was always room for the fuselage to force itself up more onto the mast.

I'm still waiting for my first Kraken stuff to arrive, but it appears that this mast to fuse joint is no longer conical and that the mast bottoms out into the fuselage, so the fuselage has nowhere to move. The Slingshot Phantasm connection is like this and very easy to get tight, and I haven't experienced any issues with bolts loosening.

Also wondering if you can use the Quick Release option for the top plate in addition to the two M6 screws from top, so you'd have two vertical screws and one transverse screw.

sunsetsailboards
333 posts
9 Jun 2022 2:13PM
Thumbs Up

got my Kraken stuff... have two days on the water now. New mast to fuse connection is simple and idiot proof. No taper, plug just bottoms out into the fuse and fastens with two M8 bolts. Nothing comes loose.

tried the quick release today. seems to work fine. I worry about wear on the brass bushing, however it can also be used in conjunction with two vertical M6 bolts that normally hold the plate adaptor to the mast. That way you have bolts going through in two directions.

Clemop
63 posts
13 Jun 2022 7:55PM
Thumbs Up

I have just ordered the 83799 kit
799 frontwing
399 stab
83cm mast
703 mast
Plate mount
I have added 903 fuse and tuttle mount to do windsurfing with it and the Quick Release kit.
Because i want to let the tuttle head mounted on my windfoil board and use the QR to save time. Also want to use the QR with the plate on my prone or wing board.
But i am a bit worried because i have seen the last sabfoil video wich explain how to fit the kraken properly using washer : you have to adjust the number of washer for the mast to be tight properly in the plate/tuttle head.
If the mast is set properly with one head, will it be the same with another head? or will i have to set the number of washer each time i want to change between tuttle or plate?
If it is so it will be totally useless...

on the video we often see people with two foils using one head, but not one foil using two heads (or just one video with balz)

i will receive the gear this week, can't wait!!!!!

ZeroVix
296 posts
13 Jun 2022 10:14PM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
Clemop said..
I have just ordered the 83799 kit
799 frontwing
399 stab
83cm mast
703 mast
Plate mount
I have added 903 fuse and tuttle mount to do windsurfing with it and the Quick Release kit.
Because i want to let the tuttle head mounted on my windfoil board and use the QR to save time. Also want to use the QR with the plate on my prone or wing board.
But i am a bit worried because i have seen the last sabfoil video wich explain how to fit the kraken properly using washer : you have to adjust the number of washer for the mast to be tight properly in the plate/tuttle head.
If the mast is set properly with one head, will it be the same with another head? or will i have to set the number of washer each time i want to change between tuttle or plate?
If it is so it will be totally useless...

on the video we often see people with two foils using one head, but not one foil using two heads (or just one video with balz)

i will receive the gear this week, can't wait!!!!!


It looks like the setup is with the mast and not the plate/tuttle. I am curious on the stability with the QR, but so far no real complaints. And you got the 703 fuse and not mast. I guess you are more interested in winging than wind foiling with your 83 mast. Let us know how you like it.

segler
WA, 1251 posts
13 Jun 2022 11:45PM
Thumbs Up

Written above: "No taper, plug just bottoms out into the fuse and fastens with two M8 bolts. Nothing comes loose."

That right there, all by itself, is reason enough to get the Kraken. The pre-Kraken mast to fuse connection was a bad design, with its taper and loosening of the M6 front bolt. It is the only real gripe I have about SAB. Everything else about SAB is most excellent.

So, about the loosening front bolt. People have tried all sorts of things to prevent that. Tef-Gel, teflon tape, thread lock compounds, you name it. My solution has been to replace the paper thin washer with #12 split washer. You have to split it just a hair more to get it onto the threads, but fits down into the hole and holds the bolt tight.

However, since you can never depend on the fitting to be completely bottomed out when first assembled, you have to get into the habit of tightening the front bolt repeatedly after some time on the water. (I know of three such bolts lying on the bottom of the Columbia.) Eventually it will not tighten anymore. This is fine for fresh water since I keep it assembled for weeks or months. In salt water, nope, you have to disassemble and grease frequently.

Grantmac
1488 posts
14 Jun 2022 12:16AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
segler said..
Written above: "No taper, plug just bottoms out into the fuse and fastens with two M8 bolts. Nothing comes loose."

That right there, all by itself, is reason enough to get the Kraken. The pre-Kraken mast to fuse connection was a bad design, with its taper and loosening of the M6 front bolt. It is the only real gripe I have about SAB. Everything else about SAB is most excellent.

So, about the loosening front bolt. People have tried all sorts of things to prevent that. Tef-Gel, teflon tape, thread lock compounds, you name it. My solution has been to replace the paper thin washer with #12 split washer. You have to split it just a hair more to get it onto the threads, but fits down into the hole and holds the bolt tight.

However, since you can never depend on the fitting to be completely bottomed out when first assembled, you have to get into the habit of tightening the front bolt repeatedly after some time on the water. (I know of three such bolts lying on the bottom of the Columbia.) Eventually it will not tighten anymore. This is fine for fresh water since I keep it assembled for weeks or months. In salt water, nope, you have to disassemble and grease frequently.


100% correct, tapers aren't a very good option for foiling loads: including at the tuttle connection.
You want everything bottomed out top to bottom.

Clemop
63 posts
14 Jun 2022 1:54AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
ZeroVix said..

Clemop said..
I have just ordered the 83799 kit
799 frontwing
399 stab
83cm mast
703 mast
Plate mount
I have added 903 fuse and tuttle mount to do windsurfing with it and the Quick Release kit.
Because i want to let the tuttle head mounted on my windfoil board and use the QR to save time. Also want to use the QR with the plate on my prone or wing board.
But i am a bit worried because i have seen the last sabfoil video wich explain how to fit the kraken properly using washer : you have to adjust the number of washer for the mast to be tight properly in the plate/tuttle head.
If the mast is set properly with one head, will it be the same with another head? or will i have to set the number of washer each time i want to change between tuttle or plate?
If it is so it will be totally useless...

on the video we often see people with two foils using one head, but not one foil using two heads (or just one video with balz)

i will receive the gear this week, can't wait!!!!!



It looks like the setup is with the mast and not the plate/tuttle. I am curious on the stability with the QR, but so far no real complaints. And you got the 703 fuse and not mast. I guess you are more interested in winging than wind foiling with your 83 mast. Let us know how you like it.


In fact i think i prefer windfoiling and prone foiling but i really want to do it all with the minimum gear. I wing in wave with a 75cm so i think i can do winDfoiling with the 83... Besides when i had the GW 101, it was so flexy that finally you manage to fly pretty low to have a reliable feeling. The extra length was not really usefull finally...
If i breach to much i will take the 93.

I hope the setup is in the mast like you say... And it make sense because the CNC aluminium plate and Tuttle must have a really high accuracy

sunsetsailboards
333 posts
15 Jun 2022 4:30AM
Thumbs Up

been trying out the Quick Release, so I have left the fuselage screwed to the mast. After four days of winging, the fuselage to mast bolts are still tight and did not need any additional tightening. Have to remind myself to check each time though just to be safe.

winner winner chicken dinner.

ZeroVix
296 posts
15 Jun 2022 5:24AM
Thumbs Up

Select to expand quote
sunsetsailboards said..
been trying out the Quick Release, so I have left the fuselage screwed to the mast. After four days of winging, the fuselage to mast bolts are still tight and did not need any additional tightening. Have to remind myself to check each time though just to be safe.

winner winner chicken dinner.


Nice. I know that Eric Collard will be testing the system soon. I would like to see a 110-115 fuse with M8 front wing connection. That way you can drill out the 1000,800, 740... and connect with 3 M8. Most are using 3 M8 or 5 M6 even with HA wings. If no fuse shows up, might need to make a call to Jim Stringfellow for a custom fuse.

sunsetsailboards
333 posts
15 Jun 2022 5:50AM
Thumbs Up

yes it would be easy enough for them to make all the fuselages M8 front wing connection.

Clemop
63 posts
18 Jun 2022 8:47PM
Thumbs Up

I have received my kraken set.
I have put 4 washers like in the video to fix the Quick release system and it is well set with both my kraken head (Tuttle and plate).
I am really impressed by the quality of all the parts. Everything is well built and solid. The mast looks really stiff and way more stiffer than the phantasm mast.
The chord at the end of the mast near the fuselage is really narrow it must have a really nice glide.
Test tomorrow in 20 to 30 knots



Subscribe
Reply

Forums > Windsurfing Foiling


"SAB Kraken" started by ZeroVix